Liverpool 2024-25

thisisnottaken1 said:
What’s our longest unbeaten run?
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Within a season I'll have to go and check, but we went 29 unbeaten between the 1998/99 and 1999/00 seasons, and again between 2009/10 and 2010/11. Edit: Looks like 24 from the start of 2010/11.

PickledRed said:
I was referring mainly to your don't seem 'unbeatable' comment, which I felt strange given that this Liverpool side went on a prolonged unbeaten run that bettered previously heralded sides.

You've used a metric - not done 5 consecutive wins - to draw a negative conclusion about the side. Liverpool's PPG after 33 matches is one of the highest we've seen but you're narrowing your analysis to a piece of data that compare less favourably.
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You've quite obviously been very hard to beat. However, it's felt like you've scraped your way through a fair few games. A quick scan has you behind in 11 games this season (some of them more than once) but still finding your way out with a draw or a win. Add your two defeats, and that's 13.

It ultimately doesn't matter whether you win 5-0 or come from behind to win 3-2, because 3 points are 3 points, but a team that wins comfortably most of the time seems far more unbeatable than a team that, in both games this season, needed to come from behind to beat one of the worst Premier League sides we've seen (Southampton, in case you're guessing).

The point is that being hard to beat doesn't necessarily translate to an aura of being unbeatable. Plenty of teams have got at you this season, including some of the league's worst. It's not been remotely close to that 2018-2020 run where you seemed to have a lot of games won before the ref had even blown his whistle to start the game.
 
Perception vs reality

Perception = they often didn't look great in first halves and went behind in fair few matches

Reality = they went 26 matches unbeaten, are on pace for 94 points and every advanced metric compares well against the City/Liverpool sides who've dominated the league over the last 8 years

Perception = second half of the season hasn't been impressive, therefore they weren't impressive

Reality = one of the best teams the league's ever seen in the first half of the season, still great in the second half, just not as great
 
On a 5 game rolling points per game average Liverpool have stayed between 2.2 and 2.6 throughout the whole season. It might be the most stable form of an English champion ever if they don't botch it by winning 5+ in a row.
 
John XII said:
If that's not an invitation to get our shit together then I don't know what is.
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The reality is we are such a basket case that unless City or Arsenal stop them Liverpool are going to go ahead and then further ahead and there is nothing we can do about it , we wont't even be able to break into top 4 for the foreseeable future. We are not even in the conversation.

Criminal how this club has been allowed to drift along onto the shambolic state it is in now.
 
giorno said:
Perception vs reality

Perception = they often didn't look great in first halves and went behind in fair few matches

Reality = they went 26 matches unbeaten, are on pace for 94 points and every advanced metric compares well against the City/Liverpool sides who've dominated the league over the last 8 years

Perception = second half of the season hasn't been impressive, therefore they weren't impressive

Reality = one of the best teams the league's ever seen in the first half of the season, still great in the second half, just not as great
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Careful now or you'll soon be exposed as a closet Liverpool fan :lol:
 
How much did Sky want Arsenal to lose last night or maybe I was misinterpreting things
 
Betson said:
The reality is we are such a basket case that unless City or Arsenal stop them Liverpool are going to go ahead and then further ahead and there is nothing we can do about it , we wont't even be able to break into top 4 for the foreseeable future. We are not even in the conversation.

Criminal how this club has been allowed to drift along onto the shambolic state it is in now.
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It is criminal, no doubt about that. Things can change quickly in football. It's not like we haven't been here before.
 
croadyman said:
How much did Sky want Arsenal to lose last night or maybe I was misinterpreting things
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They wanted a title race for sure, a lot of pointless games now as the end of the season not many will watch, but it was long dead by last night.
 
croadyman said:
How much did Sky want Arsenal to lose last night or maybe I was misinterpreting things
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Don't know but I'd personally (and assume a lot of other Liverpool fans think the same) would prefer to win it at Anfield than when we aren't playing.
 
desertegil said:
On a 5 game rolling points per game average Liverpool have stayed between 2.2 and 2.6 throughout the whole season. It might be the most stable form of an English champion ever if they don't botch it by winning 5+ in a row.
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Think you'll struggle to find a smaller range. Haven't found one since the Premier League went to 20 teams.

City did between 2 and 3 for 2021/22 and 2017/18, not as tight but still no real dip anywhere. United would have done the same in 2006/07 if they'd beaten West Ham on the final day, but losing took the last average down to 1.6.

Chelsea would have had an average between 2.2 and 3 in 2004/05 if they'd beaten City away (and thus gone unbeaten all season), but that defeat took the 5 game average to 1.8.
 
Alex99 said:
Within a season I'll have to go and check, but we went 29 unbeaten between the 1998/99 and 1999/00 seasons, and again between 2009/10 and 2010/11. Edit: Looks like 24 from the start of 2010/11.



You've quite obviously been very hard to beat. However, it's felt like you've scraped your way through a fair few games. A quick scan has you behind in 11 games this season (some of them more than once) but still finding your way out with a draw or a win. Add your two defeats, and that's 13.
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And that’s 13…

Frankly slightly daft analysis given you’re pretending Liverpool have scraped wins when they really haven’t. Bossing key metrics that indicate a dominant team.

This team already have enough points to win many historical Premier Leagues but we’re here pretending it’s been on a knife edge.
 
PickledRed said:
And that’s 13…

Frankly slightly daft analysis given you’re pretending Liverpool have scraped wins when they really haven’t. Bossing key metrics that indicate a dominant team.

This team already have enough points to win many historical Premier Leagues but we’re here pretending it’s been on a knife edge.
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I'm not pretending it's been on a knife edge.

You've been far and away the best and most consistent team in the league this season, even if you have had to grind out a lot of results. However, despite the unbeaten run and points haul, you just haven't seemed like the invincible force those things might suggest. Part of that is how often you've seemed on the cusp of defeat.

I don't know why you're so bothered by this. The record books will rightly have you down as dominant champions this season, but I don't think anyone is going to remember this season's Liverpool as one of the best ever PL sides.
 
Alex99 said:
I'm not pretending it's been on a knife edge.

You've been far and away the best and most consistent team in the league this season, even if you have had to grind out a lot of results. However, despite the unbeaten run and points haul, you just haven't seemed like the invincible force those things might suggest. Part of that is how often you've seemed on the cusp of defeat.
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This is an odd sentiment - it might seem like this but the facts don't back you up. Going into the last 10 minutes of matches, Liverpool have been behind 4 times this season with no last minute equalisers to save the day. On the contrary, Liverpool's season has been remarkably undramatic save for a few moments.

I can't argue if you 'feel' that Liverpool's season has had a heightened sense of peril, but it's been a procession which is backed up by in-game xG stats and xG against. "Cusp of defeats" desn't stack up.

Bu hey, not sure why you're bothered...the record books will rightly have Liverpool down as dominant champions this season.
 
PickledRed said:
This is an odd sentiment - it might seem like this but the facts don't back you up. Going into the last 10 minutes of matches, Liverpool have been behind 4 times this season with no last minute equalisers to save the day. On the contrary, Liverpool's season has been remarkably undramatic save for a few moments.

I can't argue if you 'feel' that Liverpool's season has had a heightened sense of peril, but it's been a procession which is backed up by in-game xG stats and xG against. "Cusp of defeats" desn't stack up.

Bu hey, not sure why you're bothered...the record books will rightly have Liverpool down as dominant champions this season.
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I'm not bothered. I shared my perception of your season, one seemingly shared by others, and you've repeatedly seen your arse about it.

Sure, it's sickening that you're coasting to another title, but that's not what we've been talking about.
 
PickledRed said:
This is an odd sentiment - it might seem like this but the facts don't back you up. Going into the last 10 minutes of matches, Liverpool have been behind 4 times this season with no last minute equalisers to save the day. On the contrary, Liverpool's season has been remarkably undramatic save for a few moments.

I can't argue if you 'feel' that Liverpool's season has had a heightened sense of peril, but it's been a procession which is backed up by in-game xG stats and xG against. "Cusp of defeats" desn't stack up.

Bu hey, not sure why you're bothered...the record books will rightly have Liverpool down as dominant champions this season.
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As I said, it's because you've been a second half team all season long. To the mind of opposing fans, what sticks is the fact you looked "there for the taking", nevermind that the second halves of those matches were massacres

Besides that. It's the PSG tie
 
giorno said:
As I said, it's because you've been a second half team all season long. To the mind of opposing fans, what sticks is the fact you looked "there for the taking", nevermind that the second halves of those matches were massacres

Besides that. It's the PSG tie
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...and the Plymouth tie. And the final against Newcastle.

As you've highlighted, they've not been a "front foot" team, attacking from the off like people are used to. The perception is there because opposing fans (rightly or wrongly) believe they stand a chance of a result of they can get ahead.

As I pointed out, they needed to come from behind in both games against Southampton, objectively one of the worst sides the league has ever seen. Their last two wins have been by a single goal against two other poor sides, one now relegated. The only game they've won by more than two in the second half of the season was against Ipswich, another poor, soon to be relegated side.

Liverpool fans can (and evidently do) feel this perception is unfair, but they're not going to change many minds.
 
So many teams underperformed this year, us, Spurs, City etc. and plenty of others have done better than expected, Forest, Newcastle.

Can't help but feel that this should have been Arsenal's year, be hard for them to pick themselves up unless they win the CL I guess.
 
Frankly, I didn't see them as regular this season.
Liverpool in 2025, it's serious, they play with crazy intensity.
Their pressing has become stuffy again, and offensively, it's unfolding.
If they continue like this, the title will be deserved, even for a rival.
But hey, I still hope that they will stall on the end
 
The most noticeable difference between this Liverpool team and the Klopp one is that this team conserve their energy a lot more. Klopp ran them in to the ground which is why they picked up a lot more injuries and tired towards the end of last season.

Arteta has made this mistake with Arsenal which is why Havertz got injured and they've dropped off completely in the league.

I don't think they have had luck with injuries,they are just being managed better from a fitness point of view.

Apparently one of the main reasons Liverpool wanted Slot is because he has a really good record of keeping players fit.

I'm sure all teams are looking at this and they won't have this advantage so much next season though.
 
Salt Bailly said:
Also the fact that scousers struggle when they run out of fingers on one hand (6).
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I can assure you. We are all of us very well schooled in the art of counting to six.

It's something we've had to learn you see.
 
desertegil said:
On a 5 game rolling points per game average Liverpool have stayed between 2.2 and 2.6 throughout the whole season. It might be the most stable form of an English champion ever if they don't botch it by winning 5+ in a row.
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That's interesting.

For all the talk of wobbles, I don't think we ever had an actual bad patch in the league. Our worst period of the season was losing to PSG and Newcastle. And we were still the better team in the game we lost to PSG (even though they were far better in the game we won in Paris).
 
Alex99 said:
I'm not bothered. I shared my perception of your season, one seemingly shared by others, and you've repeatedly seen your arse about it.

Sure, it's sickening that you're coasting to another title, but that's not what we've been talking about.
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It kind of is because it’s clouding your judgement given stats don’t support your biased thesis.

But finding fault in this Liverpool side is your prerogative and you’ve done your best to paint as negative a picture as possible, which is fair enough I guess.
 
PickledRed said:
It kind of is because it’s clouding your judgement given stats don’t support your biased thesis.

But finding fault in this Liverpool side is your prerogative and you’ve done your best to paint as negative a picture as possible, which is fair enough I guess.
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No, it isn't.

We've been talking about the perception of your season, and mine is shared by many others, not just Manchester United fans.

You've been worthy, even dominant, winners, but your season hasn't included many (if any) memorable performances and this is a side that almost certainly won't be remembered as one of the greats. That's it.

Keep going though. I'm sure you can find a way to be more gotten to about this.
 
They are the winners because they’ve been the most consistent at getting results whilst everyone else has struggled. I don’t think it’s necessarily a great team, just consistent
 
@PickledRed Get out while you can or he will bore you to death with stats and "perceptions" which mean feck all in the grand scheme of things.
 
golden_blunder said:
They are the winners because they’ve been the most consistent at getting results whilst everyone else has struggled. I don’t think it’s necessarily a great team, just consistent
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Apparently if you point this out our resident scousers can't help but be incredibly gotten to that Manchester United fans on a Manchester United forum don't want to praise them for being the best team ever.
 
RobinLFC said:
@PickledRed Get out while you can or he will bore you to death with stats and "perceptions" which mean feck all in the grand scheme of things.
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As above, you are discussing this on a Manchester United forum with a bunch of Manchester United fans. Even if it were true that this Liverpool side were one of the best football teams of all time (it isn't), it shouldn't be remotely surprising to any of you that said Manchester United fans on a Manchester United forum are not going to praise you as such.

As for my "perception" - all things I've said during this discussion, but apparently it's not been enough to satisfy your victim complex:

Alex99 said:
you're well worth the title this season
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Alex99 said:
You've been far and away the best and most consistent team in the league this season
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Alex99 said:
The record books will rightly have you down as dominant champions this season
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Alex99 said:
Sure, it's sickening that you're coasting to another title
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Alex99 said:
You've been worthy, even dominant, winners
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Alex99 said:
As above, you are discussing this on a Manchester United forum with a bunch of Manchester United fans. Even if it were true that this Liverpool side were one of the best football teams of all time (it isn't), it shouldn't be remotely surprising to any of you that said Manchester United fans on a Manchester United forum are not going to praise you as such.

As for my "perception" - all things I've said during this discussion, but apparently it's not been enough to satisfy your victim complex:
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Then I genuinely don't know what you are even trying to argue or prove in here and in the other thread. Not one Liverpool fan is saying the bolded part, so you're arguing against yourself then.
 
RobinLFC said:
Then I genuinely don't know what you are even trying to argue or prove in here and in the other thread. Not one Liverpool fan is saying the bolded part, so you're arguing against yourself then.
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Maybe ask your mate what he wants me to say then, because my point the entire time has literally just been that you've not seemed particularly special even if you have been worthy winners, and yet his piss has been boiling every time I've said you've not seemed particularly special.

You're such a sensitive bunch, it's hilarious.
 
RobinLFC said:
@PickledRed Get out while you can or he will bore you to death with stats and "perceptions" which mean feck all in the grand scheme of things.
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Talking about other fans agreeing with him as if he’s engaging in some good faith discussion. Bias and seemingly sour.
 
RobinLFC said:
Then I genuinely don't know what you are even trying to argue or prove in here and in the other thread. Not one Liverpool fan is saying the bolded part, so you're arguing against yourself then.
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Spot on. This Liverpool side have produced a very strong season but somehow this is undermined because it’s not the best side of all time. Meandering and broadly weak thesis based on something nobody is arguing. But we’re sensitive for telling him so.
 
PickledRed said:
Spot on. This Liverpool side have produced a very strong season but somehow this is undermined because it’s not the best side of all time. Meandering and broadly weak thesis based on something nobody is arguing. But we’re sensitive for telling him so.
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You're incredibly sensitive.

Look above at all of the times I've said you are worthy, dominant champions, and yet for you it's not enough and you're still seething at god knows what.

Putting all bias aside, do you genuinely think this side is an all-time great side?

For comparison, Chelsea won the league in 2016/17 with 93 points and went on a 26 game run that won more points than your unbeaten run this season despite it containing a defeat.

If you don't think this side is one of the best ever, then what is your actual issue with what I've said?
 
Alex99 said:
You're incredibly sensitive.

Look above at all of the times I've said you are worthy, dominant champions, and yet for you it's not enough and you're still seething at god knows what.

Putting all bias aside, do you genuinely think this side is an all-time great side?

For comparison, Chelsea won the league in 2016/17 with 93 points and went on a 26 game run that won more points than your unbeaten run this season despite it containing a defeat.

If you don't think this side is one of the best ever, then what is your actual issue with what I've said?
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Have I said that Liverpool this season is ‘an all time great side’?

I’m saying they’re having a very strong season with all the data to back this up. My contention is - which is all I’m disputing - is that Liverpool haven’t been on ‘the cusp of several defeats’ nor have they wobbled nor scraped their way through, which seems to be the essence of your position. I think you’re wrong and you don’t have the facts to back yourself. Your ‘13 games’ analysis was wild, which is why I called it out.

I can just as easily say you’re sensitive for pursuing a bad faith argument due to you being sickened (your words) at Liverpool’s predominance throughout the season. But that would be to play the man and not the ball.

But to clarify, Liverpool are not an all time great side like 19/20 or the City side in the same period. But they’re very good.
 
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