KEANE: I hate the FA Cup It's a load of b******

$ukhjit

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I'd do a Cantona

THE incident between Eric Cantona and a fan at Selhurst Park in 1995 was serious for the club. But I'll tell you my immediate reaction: So what?

Fair play to Eric. I might have done the same myself.

Of course, when I got home and saw the television pictures I could see it was a nasty incident.

Out of order, too. But my attitude didn't change. My heart went out to him and all the lads felt the same. We didn't pat him on the back and say well done — but Eric was a good lad and we weren't going to turn on him now.

The Cantona enigma had been the talk of the game when he joined Manchester United.

But I liked him immediately. Sure, he was different. He did his own thing in training, had his own warm-up routine and often stayed out practising five-a-side. He also had a fierce temper that sometimes flared up – he and Peter Schmeichel frequently found themselves at odds.

Fists were raised at the training ground on one or two occasions. I remember a game against Galatasaray in Turkey in 1993. It was rough, nasty at times, and at the end all hell broke lose. Eric was sent off.

In the tunnel a policeman, who was laying into everyone around him, hit Bryan Robson on the head. Eric got involved in hand-to-hand combat. Then, in the dressing room, he went crazy. While the rest of us just wanted to get out of there, he was determined to go back and sort out the rogue cop who'd been wielding his truncheon. Eric was a big, strong lad. He was serious. He insisted he was going to kill ‘that f***er'.

It took the combined efforts of the manager, Brian Kidd and a few players to restrain him. Normally, I wouldn't have backed off – but even I wasn't up for this one.

Yet behind the enigma, Eric was a great pro, very serious about his football and immensely knowledgeable about the game. Collar turned up, back straight, chest out, he glided into the arena as if he owned the place. And nowhere more effectively than Old Trafford. This was his stage, he loved it and the crowd loved him.

The players loved him too, for many reasons. He got the job done. His finishing was deadly. He didn't exactly put himself about to win the ball back and we did more than our share of running for him – but just when we were giving him a bollocking, he'd seize half a chance and, bang, it was in the back of the net. I've never seen anyone finish like him. Bloody brilliant. And he was a strong bastard who could hold the ball up in any situation and return it perfectly.

We stuck together. In most away games, taking Eric down a peg or two seemed to be objective No1 for the opposition hard men and the extra effort made by players from clubs like Norwich, Swindon, Crystal Palace, Oldham and Wimbledon usually led to trouble.

"They're f****** crazy, Roy," Eric would complain. Yet confronted by tackles that were high, late and, yes, crazy our only option was to meet fire with fire.

It was no coincidence that Eric was sent off at Swindon and identified as the villain after a match at Norwich.

Him, me, Paul Ince and Mark Hughes would lead the resistance.

What really bugged me about these part-time hard men was that they tried to make a reputation by sorting us out. Why didn't they put that effort in every week? Maybe then they wouldn't be playing for Norwich or Swindon. That's why we didn't roll over when faced with this stuff. We met aggression with aggression and let ability make the difference.

That night at Selhurst Park Eric got involved with his marker, Richard Shaw.

It was niggly stuff, not nasty — shirt-pulling, obstruction, a bit of chat. You shouldn't bother about it but the aim is to break your concentration – sometimes it worked and, with Eric, Palace got a result.

Eric lost it and kicked Shaw. Off.

The crowd went mad. As Eric walked towards the dressing room the game resumed. Now it's a battle. Suddenly there was a commotion on the far touchline — something had happened but we didn't know what. It turned out some looper had had a go at Eric near the tunnel.

Eric didn't react immediately, then turned back and launched himself at his tormentor. Bruce Lee would have been proud of his kung fu kick, although he could have hurt himself quite badly, broken his back.

It's a good thing he wasn't wearing studs. Eric never did.

As it was, he ended up on his feet trading blows with the guy.

After the game, the dressing room was quiet. The directors were in a huddle with the gaffer. Eric sat there, head bowed.

Police were outside in the corridor. It was a big test for the manager but I still say some of the things you hear from the terraces are really sickening. Racist taunts, chants about players' personal lives — Eric suffered a lot from that — filth that makes you wonder about the people who come to football matches.

Obscene songs about the Munich air crash? What is this?

It's no surprise that when Eric retired he turned to acting. He spent his life projecting the enigma; that was his game. He was cast as the brooding, temperamental prima donna — in reality, he was one of the lads.

He pretended not to understand English when, in fact, his command of the language was good — particularly impressive when it came to swearing.

He was funny, loved a drink — always champagne — and never carried money.

I saw him create a huge commotion at Manchester Airport once, trying to pay for a packet of chewing gum with a gold card. He was a good lad and great company – one of the best, no real conceit, no bulls***.

Here's a story that captures Eric to a tee. One morning Steve Bruce arrived in the dressing room with a cheque for £15,000. The first-team squad had contributed to a video and this was to be split 18 ways.

Struggling to work out who was owed what we decided to hold a draw, winner takes all. The option of taking your cut — about £800 — was available.

For the young lads that was around two weeks' wages. Some wanted the money. Three of them took the money but the rest of us, including Paul Scholes and Nicky Butt, opted to play — it left about £12,000.

Eric's name came out of the hat. He took his cheque – and plenty of stick.

Next morning he arrived with two more cheques for £6,000 each made out to Paul and Nicky.

This was their unexpected reward for taking the gamble. He appreciated they needed the money more than him.

It was a lot to spend on a gesture, even then. Top class, Eric.

Adapted by MARTIN SAMUEL from Keane: The Autobiography by Roy Keane to be published by Michael Joseph on August 30 at £17.99 © Roy Keane 2002
 
He's a lad isn't he. :)
 
Souvenir, souvenir...

What we need is the same magic that Eric brought to OT. Hope that the magic is Rio...
 
Keane, who was sent home from the World Cup finals after a row with Ireland manager Mick McCarthy, said that he feigned sadness when United pulled out the FA Cup in 2000 to play in the inaugural World Club Championship in Brazil.


"The competition (FA Cup) had lost its relevance, certainly for me - the Premiership and the Champions Cup were the only trophies we were concerned about," the 31-year-old is quoted as saying.


"Sure, it was a day out for our families and everyone who worked hard behind the scenes at the club.


"But the Wembley myth, the folklore attached to the walk out of the tunnel, the red carpet, meeting the big shots, going up to the Royal Box to receive your medal, a pat on the back from the great and good - all of it was 'b......s'. Of course you couldn't say that.


"Tradition dies slowly in the English game and with the news that the holders wouldn't be defending the trophy all hell broke loose.


CONSOLTION PRIZE


"We all put on our sick-as-parrot faces, expressing shock and regret but privately, I didn't care. Brazil in January sounded great.


"There's no doubt in an era when the Premiership and the Champions Cup have become the competitions to win, the FA Cup is nothing more than a consolation prize, an afterthought."

<a href="http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/020818/80/d7pvw.html" target="_blank">Source</a>
 
I love the FA Cup.

But...........

If United were to win the FA Cup and nothing else for the next three seasons would we be happy? I think not. When you think about it that way then what Keano has said is, once again, very true. Its all about the Champion's League and Premiership for a club of United's size. The FAC is really just icing on the cake!
 
I disagree, I love us winning the FA Cup, and the Cup Final is still a day to look forward to. I have thought at times that our hunger wasn't right in some Cup games, although at other times, like Villa, it was there, and I'm sad to here this confirmed because its not what fans pay more for. Why bother attending an FA Cup game then if the players aren't trying to win it?
 
Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>I disagree, I love us winning the FA Cup, and the Cup Final is still a day to look forward to. I have thought at times that our hunger wasn't right in some Cup games, although at other times, like Villa, it was there, and I'm sad to here this confirmed because its not what fans pay more for. Why bother attending an FA Cup game then if the players aren't trying to win it?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Completely agree. There is a tremendous tradition associated with the FAC which should be respected. It should not be compared to the WC. In particular United have a proud record in the competition having won it more times than anyone else. The FAC final at Wembley has always been a special occasion. Following our dismal exit against Middlesbrough last season I wonder if Fergie shares Keane's views ?
 
Originally posted by $ukhjit:
<strong>Here's a story that captures Eric to a tee. One morning Steve Bruce arrived in the dressing room with a cheque for £15,000. The first-team squad had contributed to a video and this was to be split 18 ways.

Struggling to work out who was owed what we decided to hold a draw, winner takes all. The option of taking your cut — about £800 — was available.

For the young lads that was around two weeks' wages. Some wanted the money. Three of them took the money but the rest of us, including Paul Scholes and Nicky Butt, opted to play — it left about £12,000.

Eric's name came out of the hat. He took his cheque – and plenty of stick.

Next morning he arrived with two more cheques for £6,000 each made out to Paul and Nicky.

This was their unexpected reward for taking the gamble. He appreciated they needed the money more than him.

It was a lot to spend on a gesture, even then.

Adapted by MARTIN SAMUEL from Keane: The Autobiography by Roy Keane to be published by Michael Joseph on August 30 at £17.99 © Roy Keane 2002</strong><hr></blockquote>

R-E-S-P-E-C-T <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
 
Originally posted by Julian Denny:
<strong>

Why - because we haven't won it for a few years ?</strong><hr></blockquote>


nope.

maybe because, i regard the CL and PL as the two most important comps... the FA Cup was important to me before we we're annually involved in the CL..


now its just another competition.
 
Originally posted by giggzy:
maybe because, i regard the CL and PL as the two most important comps... the FA Cup was important to me before we we're annually involved in the CL..

----------------------------------------------

I think Keane's point is more to do with how a team like United should be measured these days.

His personal opinion on the FA Cup may not be shared by all his team mates, but if they were all asked which competitions are the one's that set you apart from the rest on a European level (and surely that's where they are aiming) then he's correct.

Once again, Roy has spoken his mind and he will no doubt upset the suits at the FA for doing so, but he's right. The expectations at United and from the fans have got a lot higher in recent years and so they should. Spending 58 million on Veron and Ferdinand is just staggering.

Roy's message is clear to all, fans and players alike. We cannot be satisfied with domestic trophies any longer. Teams like Real Madrid are the one's to beat (consistently).
 
That's all very well but I don't think we should be trying to denigrate the considerable history and tradition of the FAC just because the PL and of course the CL do take preference. The Leauge Championship has always taken preference over the FAC but that has never diminished the status of the FAC, until now it seems. I would hate to see the FAC reduced to the level of the WC. There may be a season when we are not involved in the CL - what then ? As much as I very much admire Keane's contribution on the field I'm beginning to think that some of his views off it, as expressed in the extracts from his book, seem nonsensical.
 
Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>maybe because, i regard the CL and PL as the two most important comps... the FA Cup was important to me before we we're annually involved in the CL..


now its just another competition.</strong><hr></blockquote>My sentiments exactly, unfortunately.

I'll never forget my first (& only) Cup Final. Norm's goal v's Everton... Class; I went f'kin mental! That day remains as one of my fav all time United moments along with a lot of others, like Sheff Utd away in the Cup in '90 coz that's the last time I attended a United win.

I'm with giggzy though, over the past few seasons the PL & CL have taken total precedence and subsequently defeat in the FAC has become easier to take.

I'd love it if we won it of course but again, it's a distant 3rd in priority.
 
Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>


nope.

maybe because, i regard the CL and PL as the two most important comps... the FA Cup was important to me before we we're annually involved in the CL..


now its just another competition.</strong><hr></blockquote>

This is the arrogant attitude that pisses so many other fans off I think. The FA Cup was all we had to show during the 70s and 80s. It was worth something then when we weren't the dominant force we are now. The time will come again when we aren't the dominant force and an FA Cup win might well be worth something to you again. The FA Cup was and always will be special.
 
Originally posted by True Treble Reds:
<strong>My sentiments exactly, unfortunately.

I'll never forget my first (& only) Cup Final. Norm's goal v's Everton... Class; I went f'kin mental! That day remains as one of my fav all time United moments along with a lot of others, like Sheff Utd away in the Cup in '90 coz that's the last time I attended a United win.

I'm with giggzy though, over the past few seasons the PL & CL have taken total precedence and subsequently defeat in the FAC has become easier to take.

I'd love it if we won it of course but again, it's a distant 3rd in priority.</strong><hr></blockquote>

some of my best United memories are FA cup ties.. Brighton 83, Everton 85, Liverpool FA semi 85... there are so many... However, its lost its sparkle for me, call me arrogant or whatever you like, but its not special for me anymore..


sad but thats how i feel.

perhaps if we become a mediocre team again, it might regain its charm...
 
Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>The FA Cup was and always will be special.</strong><hr></blockquote>I'm not arguing that point, it's just that 'I' would prefer United to win the Premiership or Champions League rather than the FA Cup!

I remember wanting us to win the Cup more when I was a kid because back then, I knew we had no chance of winning the league and the Cup was our only chance for 'glory'.

I wouldn't call it arrogance that our aims are high. A CL win get's us in the comp the following year, as does a Premiership win. The Cup get's us into the UEFA Cup (If we finish outside the top 4 in the league)!

I want to see United playing v the best Europe has to offer, season in season out, that's why the FA Cup, imo, takes less precedence.
 
Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>perhaps if we become a mediocre team again, it might regain its charm...</strong><hr></blockquote>

TTR - this was what the attitude my post was challenging. Why has the FA Cup no charm because we have won the league a few times?
 
Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>

TTR - this was what the attitude my post was challenging. Why has the FA Cup no charm because we have won the league a few times?</strong><hr></blockquote>

thats how some feel...


why do need to 'challenge' it?


yes, it was special but its isn't for some... for whatever reason.
 
Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

thats how some feel...


why do need to 'challenge' it?


yes, it was special but its isn't for some... for whatever reason.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Challenge it? Bloody hell mate - it's a forum and that's what happens usually - people exchange opinions and argue the toss - hadn't you noticed? I "challenge" it because there are only three honours on offer per season for most teams. 95% of them will win nothing - like us last season. Winning the FA Cup is an honour. Why devalue it because we have experienced successes that are deemed more important than the FA Cup recently?
 
Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>

Challenge it? Bloody hell mate - it's a forum and that's what happens usually - people exchange opinions and argue the toss - hadn't you noticed? I "challenge" it because there are only three honours on offer per season for most teams. 95% of them will win nothing - like us last season. Winning the FA Cup is an honour. Why devalue it because we have experienced successes that are deemed more important than the FA Cup recently?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes it is an honour to win the FA cup and i would've loved us to win it last year....

However, its not what it used to be, in the 80's it felt special... Can you honestly say, its the same for you now?
 
Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

Yes it is an honour to win the FA cup and i would've loved us to win it last year....

However, its not what it used to be, in the 80's it felt special... Can you honestly say, its the same for you now?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes I could. It was what I grew up on as far as United are concerned. Call me nostalgic or whatever, but it meant si much in those days to win anything I can't suddenly relegate the Cup to a secondary competition. Of course it's not winning the CL or the PL - but I don't think they should really even be compared.
 
The FAC was a very special competition and still is a very special competition. But the fact is........

I want United to be regarded as the best team in the land. I want scousers and gooners to have to admit that United are the best team in the land, without any argument. Let them eat some humble pie. The only way they do that is if United win the Premiership and/or CL. Those competitions are the true measure of a team, at least thats what scousers always rammed down my throat during the 80s.

So I'm afraid the FAC does come a distant third to both Prem and CL. Its a fact! It always has been a fact regardless of how entertaining or enjoyable the competition is.

I guarantee you, if United end up with nothing but the FAC this year then the majority of posters on here will not be happy. That tells you a lot about the FAC regardless of heritage and entertainment value.
 
Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>

Yes I could. It was what I grew up on as far as United are concerned. Call me nostalgic or whatever, but it meant si much in those days to win anything I can't suddenly relegate the Cup to a secondary competition. Of course it's not winning the CL or the PL - but I don't think they should really even be compared.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Fair enough mate..

i wish, i felt the same as you... i really do.
 
Originally posted by Dans:

The time will come again when we aren't the dominant force and an FA Cup win might well be worth something to you again.

<hr></blockquote>

I hope we don't lose our domination, as a United fan I think you should think the same, will we be ever outshone by a team. People are saying Arsenal are the teams of the 21st century but we will be back this year to get the trophies.
 
Last season it was very dissapointed to lose to boro in the FAC fourth round and I felt cheated as a fan, it seemed less priority compared to earlier season's. I watched it on TV and the seats at the stadium were emptied so the cup has definately lost the magic of fans and teams although I wish we win it again. The match a Villa did show parts of the magic, it was great but as a whole, it has become devalued.
 
Originally posted by $ukhjit:
<strong>

I hope we don't lose our domination, as a United fan I think you should think the same, will we be ever outshone by a team. People are saying Arsenal are the teams of the 21st century but we will be back this year to get the trophies.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Carry on in fantasy land then mate. The fact is whether I think it or not it doesn't change the fact that we weren't the best team last year and we may not be this year.

Reality check necessary for some people I think.
 
Originally posted by $ukhjit:
<strong>Last season it was very dissapointed to lose to boro in the FAC fourth round and I felt cheated as a fan, it seemed less priority compared to earlier season's. I watched it on TV and the seats at the stadium were emptied so the cup has definately lost the magic of fans and teams although I wish we win it again. The match a Villa did show parts of the magic, it was great but as a whole, it has become devalued.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Remember that the reason the fans stayed away from the Boro match was because their club had raised ticket prices because it was United they were playing. They were protesting and rightly so.