Joe Cole, Damien Duff, Rio Ferdinand all up for grabs.

ShAoLiN_ChRoNiC

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This week has seen O'dreary admit that selling Rio is possible. He almost said it as if it was a foregone conclusion didnt he?

Joe Cole has been saying he would like to move to a bigger club soon, as has Duff - although both are naturally happy at their club.

Would any of you like to see these guys here? I'd love to see all of em! Duff as Giggs back up and our 4th striker in the hole. Duff gives alot of pace, tenacity, penetration and versatility. Something we are badly missing.

Cole to replace Veron and maybe back up Giggs/Beckham also as well as playing in the hole if need be. Cole gives us what we lack in the middle and what Veron will never be able to give, creativity, energy, skill, movement etc. He can do for us what Gazza did for England etc. At OT he will blossom like Rio did at Leeds.

Rio to help plug our defence. IMO he would make a great partner for Brown.

That may surprise some, but it will encourage Brown to blossom, he wont want to be outdone. With Blanc or someone older, he tends to become overawed and let the other guy do most of the work whilst he just does what he is told. With Rio he will come unto his own and not be shy. They are friends so they will get on and can fight together. A young lad from Longsight and an old French guy dont strike me as a good partnership, both physically and mentally. Very divided, very seperate. If we get someone else, expect our defence to be vulnerable once more, no matter how many world lass players you have, only way to be solid is to be in it together.

I may prefer Mexes to Rio though. But Rio is probably the most perfect partner in the whole world for Brown right now.

I'm bored and had to get this out - these players are there for the taking, it will be so annoying if we lose out to Arsenal and Liverpool. Whats more they give us EXACTLY what we lack, its fate. Couldnt be more perfect if you tried.

Duff = £15m
Cole = £15m?
Rio = £25m

Sell Veron = £30m
Sell Yorke = £5m
Sell Fortune = £3m

= £17m outlay.
 
Originally posted by ShAoLiN_ChRoNiC:
<strong>I may prefer Mexes to Rio though. But Rio is probably the most perfect partner in the whole world for Brown right now.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

So you would spend £25m on a player on the basis that he will partner better with Brown?

I'm not too convinced by your argument there.

I think Ferdinand could be a good buy but at 25m you need much better reasons than that.
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IMO Rio is NOT the partner Wes needs. Wes needs a Steve Bruce type defender next to him, one who can put the boot in and do all the dirty work. Wes and Rio are too similar IMO.

And Joe Cole would cost far more than £15m. Remember West Ham got £18m for Rio - they would want more for Cole.
 
We dont need a partner to Brown as he will sit on the bench i hope.Or our defence will look like it did last autumn.
 
Originally posted by Richter:
<strong>We dont need a partner to Brown as he will sit on the bench i hope.Or our defence will look like it did last autumn.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i agree brown doesn't need a 'partner' as he won't sure starter in the team i would like to see two new CB's but i doubt that will happen .. so a parter for blanc is what is needed for next season.
as for the future ... i personally feel that o'shay will be the player we all though brown should be but isn't.

Rio and blanc ... :)
BUT
rio and AYALA ... :D
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Leeds also looking to unload <a href="http://msn.skysports.com/skysports/article/0,,1860-1053993,00.html" target="_blank">Harte</a> to Celtic...
 
1)Nesta is the only worthy available partner for Blanc and Wes.
2) Sell Veron? :mad: :mad: :mad:
3) Joe Cole for left midfield :)
4) Duff for the hole :D :) ;) <img src="graemlins/angel.gif" border="0" alt="[Angel]" />
 
Its embarassing how many of you have turned against Brown. Dont forget that he is still an immense prospect who has had bad injuries. Fergie described him as this defenses future so he is a major part of our team. If buying Rio elps shore up our defence as well as helping form a great partnership with Brown then great. My point is Rio could shore us up as well as most, but the potential for partnership is greater with Rio.

Rio has the ball skills, the height and pace as well as being a good reader, and he is more of a sweeper. Brown is similar but is more of a blocker/interceptor.

Both have great awareness, great pace and good in the air. As a partnership they could blossom as they compliment each other physically and mentally. This would help them get to know each others game, similar ages, similar culture and attitude etc etc.

This is possibly the future England set up - it could be the basis for our first solid defense for years.

As for Joe Cole, he may well cost £20m, but so could Duff. With Rio, Harry priced him at £18m just to scare away teams. Whilst it worked on Fergie, O'Leary didnt buy it and took the risk even though it wasnt his market value at the time. Roder may not use the same poker tactics.

I think if we got Duff, we'd go a long way to becoming perfect in attack. Cole can wait. Duff is definitely what we need up front. If I say it enough times, maybe Fergie will hear.
 
Originally posted by kemo:
<strong>1)Nesta is the only worthy available partner for Blanc and Wes.
2) Sell Veron? :mad: :mad: :mad:
3) Joe Cole for left midfield :)
4) Duff for the hole :D :) ;) <img src="graemlins/angel.gif" border="0" alt="[Angel]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

1) Nesta is NOT the only worthy available partner for Blanc and/or Wes, there are plenty of CB's out there who will be just fine for our defence.

2) For once I agree with you, hope that doesn't happen any more.

3) Ryan Giggs for left midfield


4)Would you please shut up about that hole ?
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Nesta!! Nesta!! Nesta!! Nesta!! Nesta!! Nesta!!

We want Nesta!!
 
I agree with you on this one Shao - Brown still can be a top top defender, and i think Rio is the perfect partner for him. Brown is a little quiet for my liking but he has all the nessecary qualities for a class defender, he can do the lot he is not scared of doing the dirty jobs defenders have to do, so i dnt think a bruce type defender is absolutely necessary. I feel we just need someone who can communicate and organise the defense and Rio can definitley do that. Also he has that agression which i reckon w/could rub off on to wes. Wes/Rio in afew years maybe Englands Answer to Nesta/Cannavaro and i do not say that lightly.
 
Originally posted by Cal:
<strong>Nesta!! Nesta!! Nesta!! Nesta!! Nesta!! Nesta!!

We want Nesta!!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Cal, you have 377 messages in the forum, how many of them have been just about like this one? <img src="graemlins/yawn.gif" border="0" alt="[Yawn]" />
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Crembo.
1) Cole would be the best back up for giggs imo.
2) The "Hole" is a neccesary evil in Fergie's new era! :D :D
 
Originally posted by kemo:
<strong>Crembo.
1) Cole would be the best back up for giggs imo.
2) The "Hole" is a neccesary evil in Fergie's new era! :D :D </strong><hr></blockquote>

1. Having a player like Cole as a backup is a waste of money, he surley won't cost as a backup player.

2. Hole Shmole we have enough midfielders as it is
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Joe Cole would be great for Utd. tho' he'd be on the bench. If there was 15m+ to be spent on a midfielder(possibly to replace Veron) then my first choice would be van Bommel( bit more expensive than cole, but more useful.
 
Sorry crembo, but you're an idiot. Either that or you're just against everything kemo says. I'm not sure which is more plausible.

Giggs needs back up desperately. Cole and Duff are both able to play this role (Duff would be better tho), cos they are young. Besides Giggs is always injured and will be rested all the time. It seems Fortune is not up to the task of being his understudy.

So they arent going to be bench warmers, more like squad players who provide different options for when Giggs is not playing or is not performing - which is way too often recently.

As for the hole, this is exactly what we need to make that next step. Cantona did it, then Yorke, then Teddy. Without it we're lost. We only managed to get 3rd this year thanks to RVN and a few inspirational INDIVIDUAL performances. But as a team we need that link up man. Again Duff can do it just fine, he wont be like the others, but he can still drop back. Cole would be better in the hole and more similar to the previous lot though.

Duff can fill in the role as a pacey striker, as a link up man and as back up for Giggs, so IMO DUFF IS THE IDEAL SIGNING.

Get him while we still can Fergie.
 
And for the record, I have nothing against kemo, this is the first time I even answer one of his posts.
 
Originally posted by cd:
<strong>I'd prefer Cole to Duff as cover for Giggs as Cole can be cover for basically anyone in MF if needed(except Keane - no one can be backup for him)</strong><hr></blockquote>

Butt can...

As for Cole, he is not a winger whilst Duff has to be one of the best in the league. Cole can pull the strings in the middle like Bergkamp, but he cant do what Giggs does. Duff can do what Giggs does but he is no Bergkamp. Thats my opinion.

Crembo - dont hate me! But what you said was kinda silly. Thats all. You wasnt fully serious was you?
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Originally posted by ShAoLiN_ChRoNiC:
<strong>

Crembo - dont hate me! But what you said was kinda silly. Thats all. You wasnt fully serious was you?</strong><hr></blockquote>

seroius about what?
I am sick of hearing about this whole and I was serious when I said that.
Our main goals this summer are Defenders and perhaps a 3rd/4th striker.
So why do you keep suggesting we buy midfielders?
Anyway, I thought kemo was suggesting cole instead of giggs and not as backup
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OH, and I really don't think that a person who said United should play like Brazil can call me silly or an idiot. :rolleyes:
 
You dont know a thing about football, the hole is Cantona's role, Teddy's role, Bergkamp. Are they mids? No. They are strikers.

Brazils and Utds style and philosophy are actually very similar. Just that Utd have lost grasp of this whilst Brazil seem to have taken it too far.
 
Originally posted by ShAoLiN_ChRoNiC:
<strong>You dont know a thing about football, the hole is Cantona's role, Teddy's role, Bergkamp. Are they mids? No. They are strikers.


Brazils and Utds style and philosophy are actually very similar. Just that Utd have lost grasp of this whilst Brazil seem to have taken it too far.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ryan Giggs played in the hole this year for Utd, is he a striker ? is Duff a striker ?
can you find me the meaning of this football term called "the hole" ?

Utd and Brazil are nothing alike.
Does Brazil have players in the mold of Keane or Butt ?
The way I see it Brazil play individual football, and as for United our best performances this year (depor away etc) were a team performancs, where the teams value was more than the sum of its parts.

as for me not knowing anything about football, i guess thats a hole i would have to fill...
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THe hole is a half striker. The reson Giggs did't do well is because he's a bad, bad finisher. Henry was a winger, but he now playes in the hole as a striker.
 
Don't think that there are many players in the world who are suited to play in the hole. Totti, Cantona and Bergkamp are one of the select few who can really flourish in this role. It's a difficult position to play in and you need quick thinking, good finishing and good passing to be able to flourish.

I dont think that Duff or Cole has that ability to play in the hole. Just see how Scholes struggled to fit in that role and Veron is definitely not suited in that role. The only player i would love to see play in the hole at United would have to be Totti... :D
 
Originally posted by beycont:
<strong>Don't think that there are many players in the world who are suited to play in the hole. Totti, Cantona and Bergkamp are one of the select few who can really flourish in this role. It's a difficult position to play in and you need quick thinking, good finishing and good passing to be able to flourish.

I dont think that Duff or Cole has that ability to play in the hole. Just see how Scholes struggled to fit in that role and Veron is definitely not suited in that role. The only player i would love to see play in the hole at United would have to be Totti... :D </strong><hr></blockquote>

I heard Spurs have a man who suits this role perfectly, you may have heard of him....

_1506778_sheringham150.jpg


:D :cool: <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
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Originally posted by Gazza:
<strong>

I heard Spurs have a man who suits this role perfectly, you may have heard of him....

_1506778_sheringham150.jpg


:D :cool: <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Oppppsss...forgot about him...

:D
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i just want to point out that joe cole might be the most overrated player in the entire premiership. he can't shoot, pass, or tackle. he doesn't have outstanding pace, he's physically weak, and makes bad decisions. if he was a foreign lad, he wouldn't get a second look...but becuase he's english, and can dribble the ball a bit, he's the best thing since sliced bread. i'm not saying he won't mature into a good player, but as of right now, he isn't good enough to warrant a big money move.
 
Originally posted by Gazza:
<strong>

I heard Spurs have a man who suits this role perfectly, you may have heard of him....

_1506778_sheringham150.jpg


:D :cool: <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

:( Don't remind us.
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Originally posted by ShAoLiN_ChRoNiC:
<strong>Would any of you like to see these guys here? I'd love to see all of em! Duff as Giggs back up and our 4th striker in the hole. Duff gives alot of pace, tenacity, penetration and versatility. Something we are badly missing.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't think these guys are good buy provided their price tags. Among these three players we may be able to get Duff at an more inexpensive price, so he is a good choice to add variety to our attack. However, paying 25m+ for Rio Ferdinand is foolish. He is not Nesta or Ayala or Thuram by all means. Joe Cole is also not Gazza. He is very quick and has excellent individual skill, but his reading of the game, his distribution of the ball and his shooting are all elementary. In general I don't mind we sign young and potential players, but paying tens of millions for those over-rated over-priced British players is not the cleverest thing for us to do.
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Duff wouldnt be let go for anything less than 15m,he has been the most exciting player I have seen in the tournament so far .

{Might be a bit bias but he is definately up there}
 
Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>

I don't think these guys are good buy provided their price tags. Among these three players we may be able to get Duff at an more inexpensive price, so he is a good choice to add variety to our attack. However, paying 25m+ for Rio Ferdinand is foolish. He is not Nesta or Ayala or Thuram by all means. Joe Cole is also not Gazza. He is very quick and has excellent individual skill, but his reading of the game, his distribution of the ball and his shooting are all elementary. In general I don't mind we sign young and potential players, but paying tens of millions for those over-rated over-priced British players is not the cleverest thing for us to do.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Crembo - stop being so ignorant, you wanna talk about Brazil and total football, you go to the Brazil thread. Until then, realise that the hole is a vital part of our game and that none of our players do it very well so it'd be nice to get someone who can. Sorry that "you've had too much hole", but so what?

As for uranushk1 - thats your opinion. Frankly IMO Thuram, Nesta and Ayala are all over rated. As a defender, there is only so much you can do, its not like the difference between Zidane and say Nakata where there is a huge gulf in class. Even these world class superstars are a little over rated. Thee is only so much more that a world class player can do over an average player. But they are all vulnerable to the same fallacies. Look at Veron this year. We have enough world class players, we now need some players who can fill in the gaps and simply do the job for now.

Ferdinand is blossoming into a world class defender, one of the best there is with all the attributes required. He would only improve here. As for Joe Cole, I reckon this guy has a great chance to be world class, he just needs to leave West Ham - there are few 20 yr olds who can do what he can.

But its not only the individual qualities that make me want these players. On that basis it would be better to buy one of these foreign world class superstars. But their roles would suit this team, and sort our this teams problems, they have the right temperament, attributes etc. It would also be building for the future.

Buying another world class star would result in another Veron situation, too much quality to leave on the bench, and no guarantee that the job they do would be any better than the job anyone else would do i.e. Blanc did as good a job as Thuram would and he was free and no longer world class. Carroll did as good a job as Barthez did, maybe better.

Duff, Cole and Rio may not be up there just yet. But Duff has done just as well a job as Giggs and the rest. Cole has done his job better than Veron, Rio has been just as good as any defender out there and he will get better.

I just think these guys are the ideal signings. But dont know about the prices. Duff is the main one, the others can wait or buy someone else instead.
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Can you honestly seeing Utd signing 2 more midfielders... ? :)
 
Why not? One as Van's long term partner and one as Giggsy's back up! ;)
 
Initially I don't think Ferdinand is good enough for us. But watching England's games in the WC, it seems he was undering a big progress during this tourament. May be a not a bad buy, if he can be available at around 20m-25m.
 
Duff and Rio would be fantastic. BTW, why is everyone referring to Rio as the perfect partner for Wes ? Wes doesn't even play much.
 
Well, I would imagine that Ferdinand would want to come to OT because he knows he'll never win anything with Leeds. The only issue is the price..
As far as Brown is concerned, he will probably partner him whenever Blanc retires. He would be perfect partner for him. If he can command the entire Leeds team, why not Brown or our defense in general?
 
Duff and Rio all up for grabs... starting at 20 million each ;)
 
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