James Ducker... United plan youth overhaul to catch up with top tier rivals

Manchester United could build their own academy stadium and employ a raft of full-time junior coaches as part of a wide-ranging structural overhaul of their youth system.

The club have conducted a review of their academy and scouting set-up since announcing in February that Brian McClair, the academy director, was leaving to join the Scottish FA.

From the Busby Babes in the 1950s to the emergence of George Best the next decade and the success of the Class of ’92, United have one of the most fabled youth production lines in football history.

Yet there is an acceptance within Old Trafford that the key areas of coaching, education, scouting and facilities need significant overhaul, with the club losing out to Manchester City and Chelsea in pursuit of the best youngsters.
In the words of one senior source, United are eager to retain the “soul and identity” of a youth system that they believe offers the best prospect of a route into the first team of any of England’s leading clubs, but a series of strategic changes will be implemented. Every time StanleyCupboard asks for Times articles to be posted for free, a News UK hack has to sell their children.

The club are expected to appoint two senior figures to run a new-look academy, with one tasked with overseeing coaching and the other responsible for recruitment and administration.

John Alexander, the club secretary, and John Murtagh, Everton’s former head of performance, have overseen the academy during a recruitment process expected to involve a glut of other arrivals, as well as departures.

United have taken growing exception to what they perceive to be City’s overzealous youth recruitment strategy, but they recognise the benefits of their rivals’ move to appoint full-time youth coaches and their creation of a 7,000-capacity stadium on their new training complex.

City’s full-time coaches get four hours a day with their 14-year-old players and a game each weekend, whereas United’s part-time staff get their respective players for a total of only five and a half hours per week.
United have already employed some full-time academy coaches, but that could be expanded and discussions have also taken place about funding a purpose-built stadium for youth and academy matches.

Along with Chelsea, City are widely regarded to have the most burgeoning academy, with even former United players such as Robin van Persie, Phil Neville and Darren Fletcher sending their sons to City over United, whose under-14 team were beaten 9-0 by their City counterparts in September.

The Times reported that month how United had considered refusing to play their neighbours at academy level in protest at their recruitment tactics, although City have consistently denied any suggestion of wrongdoing.
 
We shouldn't be in a position where we have to bloody catch up with them. Shocking how a top 3 club in world football can let themselves fall behind in that regard.
 
Manchester United could build their own academy stadium and employ a raft of full-time junior coaches as part of a wide-ranging structural overhaul of their youth system.

The club have conducted a review of their academy and scouting set-up since announcing in February that Brian McClair, the academy director, was leaving to join the Scottish FA.

From the Busby Babes in the 1950s to the emergence of George Best the next decade and the success of the Class of ’92, United have one of the most fabled youth production lines in football history.

Yet there is an acceptance within Old Trafford that the key areas of coaching, education, scouting and facilities need significant overhaul, with the club losing out to Manchester City and Chelsea in pursuit of the best youngsters.
In the words of one senior source, United are eager to retain the “soul and identity” of a youth system that they believe offers the best prospect of a route into the first team of any of England’s leading clubs, but a series of strategic changes will be implemented. Every time StanleyCupboard asks for Times articles to be posted for free, a News UK hack has to sell their children.

The club are expected to appoint two senior figures to run a new-look academy, with one tasked with overseeing coaching and the other responsible for recruitment and administration.

John Alexander, the club secretary, and John Murtagh, Everton’s former head of performance, have overseen the academy during a recruitment process expected to involve a glut of other arrivals, as well as departures.

United have taken growing exception to what they perceive to be City’s overzealous youth recruitment strategy, but they recognise the benefits of their rivals’ move to appoint full-time youth coaches and their creation of a 7,000-capacity stadium on their new training complex.

City’s full-time coaches get four hours a day with their 14-year-old players and a game each weekend, whereas United’s part-time staff get their respective players for a total of only five and a half hours per week.
United have already employed some full-time academy coaches, but that could be expanded and discussions have also taken place about funding a purpose-built stadium for youth and academy matches.

Along with Chelsea, City are widely regarded to have the most burgeoning academy, with even former United players such as Robin van Persie, Phil Neville and Darren Fletcher sending their sons to City over United, whose under-14 team were beaten 9-0 by their City counterparts in September.

The Times reported that month how United had considered refusing to play their neighbours at academy level in protest at their recruitment tactics, although City have consistently denied any suggestion of wrongdoing

What the hell? Did no one notice this?:lol:
 
I'm always reading these headlines about how far behind we are with the other top clubs etc....and without knowing much about our academy, I still see us grooming and promoting more youth players to the first team then almost any other top club :lol:

I assume this is more in line with the EVP (employee value proposition) to sign youngsters? Like offer schooling as part of the academy facilities, which iirc, we don't have atm?
 
We shouldn't be in a position where we have to bloody catch up with them. Shocking how a top 3 club in world football can let themselves fall behind in that regard.

Complacency from too long at the top. It's not a bad thing though that the bar has been raised by other clubs because we now have to react and react we will if we want to remain competing with the very best. The nouvea riche have had a turbo boosted ascent but there is so much money floating about now, and there's more to come, that catching back up really should only be a very short term proposition.
 
I preferred it when City were paying ridiculous fees for crap players like Roque Santa Cruz & Benjani.
 
Why would we be copying City? Has anyone actually seen tangible results from their setup yet? I'd be much more inclined to .Rossi Southamptons structures.
 
Why would we be copying City? Has anyone actually seen tangible results from their setup yet? I'd be much more inclined to .Rossi Southamptons structures.

Because they have more full time coaches etc, they are taking a lot of potential players away from us, and stealing players and coaches from out setup.
We shouldn't copy them yes, but there are definitely things we should be doing that they are doing, as well as Southampton.
 
Because they have more full time coaches etc, they are taking a lot of potential players away from us, and stealing players and coaches from out setup. We shouldn't copy them yes, but there are definitely things we should be doing that they are doing, as well as Southampton.

Fair enough, that makes sense. I hadn't realised City were doing so much better. Are any of the products of their academy close to making an impact yet?
 
Fair enough, that makes sense. I hadn't realised City were doing so much better. Are any of the products of their academy close to making an impact yet?

Don't really know, this is all at very young levels, we're talking u12s etc. Their academy is pretty new so I wouldn't expect to be seeing results for a few years yet.
 
Don't really know, this is all at very young levels, we're talking u12s etc. Their academy is pretty new so I wouldn't expect to be seeing results for a few years yet.

Sounds ominious. I was still clinging to the hope Mansour might bugger off in a year or two and leave them rot, but they seem to be establishing things properly the feckers.
 
The malaise in our youth nest up started during Fergie's last few years. For some reason, we just stopped investing in our youth set up.
 
I'm always reading these headlines about how far behind we are with the other top clubs etc....and without knowing much about our academy, I still see us grooming and promoting more youth players to the first team then almost any other top club :lol:

I assume this is more in line with the EVP (employee value proposition) to sign youngsters? Like offer schooling as part of the academy facilities, which iirc, we don't have atm?
No one is accusing us of not giving youth a chance. However, you have to invest in facilities and coaching at that level to continue attracting the best talent. We have done very little of that in about 5 years.
 
Why would we be copying City? Has anyone actually seen tangible results from their setup yet? I'd be much more inclined to .Rossi Southamptons structures.

The overhaul of City's youth system and procurement is in its complete infancy. In football development terms it's like asking why a privately educated child isn't writing university level thesis at age 13.

The time to judge City's youth set up is 10-15 years years from now (and beyond). It was never going to present en masse instant results. It takes time for these procedures to yield return as it basically made systemic changes to the entire idea of youth development welfare, not just coaching.

Essentially it addressed serious shortcomings in the academy from ages 7+. You're not going to see the benefits properly until these systems (and their students) mature.
 
I'm always reading these headlines about how far behind we are with the other top clubs etc....and without knowing much about our academy, I still see us grooming and promoting more youth players to the first team then almost any other top club :lol:

I assume this is more in line with the EVP (employee value proposition) to sign youngsters? Like offer schooling as part of the academy facilities, which iirc, we don't have atm?

Ish, I suggest you do have a look more in depth then, because your comment is essentially quite far removed from the truth.

The general quality of our academy has been dropping considerably for a few years. Possibly because the system has a whole relied too much on being well developed in the early 90's...forgetting that time moves on.

It's comparable to Nokia getting absolutely rinsed as a market leading mobile phone company. They were so used to market dominance via their tech that they took their eye off the ball and didn't invest as they should have done in development.
 
It's pretty shocking (and depressing) that our old boys are sending their kids to City's academy and not ours.
 
Long overdue is understatement. The club love to brag about its unrivalled profits so its about time they starting putting their money where their mouth is. The academy is huge part of our identity that has made United arguably the greatest football club of all. United fell behind City in this area in the 80's for a longer period of time than this and things where turned around quickly, so it can be done again.

Ideally next step up would be more investment in the local community and efforts to try and get more working class fans back in the stands again, improving the match day experience for fans AND players, but thats another issue.
 
Ish, I suggest you do have a look more in depth then, because your comment is essentially quite far removed from the truth.

The general quality of our academy has been dropping considerably for a few years. Possibly because the system has a whole relied too much on being well developed in the early 90's...forgetting that time moves on.

It's comparable to Nokia getting absolutely rinsed as a market leading mobile phone company. They were so used to market dominance via their tech that they took their eye off the ball and didn't invest as they should have done in development.
No one is accusing us of not giving youth a chance. However, you have to invest in facilities and coaching at that level to continue attracting the best talent. We have done very little of that in about 5 years.
Thanks for the response guys. I did admit in my post I'm almost speaking from a very ignorant / uninformed POV - & I figured what the article was referring to was investment in facilities etc & not headcount into the first team.

Is our infrastructure really that shocking for a massive club?
 
It's pretty shocking (and depressing) that our old boys are sending their kids to City's academy and not ours.
It's really not because that's not how academy football works. It's not like a local club were you just send your kids, there are no open trials and every player no matter who their father is has to be invited and there is nothing to say that we ever tried to sign them or that they chose their academy over ours. Also Neville and Van Persies kids aren't even at City's academy anymore while there are a number of ex United players kids in our academy at the moment as well as the kids of players and managers from other teams
 
Pogba, Morrison, Januzaj, Wilson, Lingard in last few years, With Tuanzebe, Mensah, and Gribban etc on the horizon, are we really doing that badly? Yes not all the above have/will work out but I look at Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, and City and don't see them doing any better.

I'm obviously all for improving the infrastructure of the club, but we do need more credit imo for actually playing some of our kids.
 
I'm always reading these headlines about how far behind we are with the other top clubs etc....and without knowing much about our academy, I still see us grooming and promoting more youth players to the first team then almost any other top club :lol:

Yep. It's good that we're planning ahead and working on improving but aside from facilities, we've nothing to catch up on. A quick look at this suggests that our under 21s have been champions for 3 of the last 5 years but because their 13 year olds beat ours, we're behind the times. :rolleyes:

I preferred it when City were paying ridiculous fees for crap players like Roque Santa Cruz & Benjani.

As far as I can tell, they're just paying those fees for younger players.
 
Yep. It's good that we're planning ahead and working on improving but aside from facilities, we've nothing to catch up on. A quick look at this suggests that our under 21s have been champions for 3 of the last 5 years but because their 13 year olds beat ours, we're behind the times. :rolleyes:

And the funny thing is our U14s is one of our best crops coming through.Just because 7-8 of their best talents aren't there due to U15s tournament and other reasons and the makeshift team put out was well-beaten doesn't mean that they are shit isn't it?

Pogba, Morrison, Januzaj, Wilson, Lingard in last few years, With Tuanzebe, Mensah, and Gribban etc on the horizon, are we really doing that badly? Yes not all the above have/will work out but I look at Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, and City and don't see them doing any better.

I'm obviously all for improving the infrastructure of the club, but we do need more credit imo for actually playing some of our kids.

The crop of Pogba,Morrison,Lingard... and the crop of Tuanzebe,Gribbin,... are the two best crops that we have produced/are producing since the Evans,Pique,Rossi,... group and it was before City overhauled their academy especially recruitment I think 8 years ago.The first crop of City new production line is their U16s who is destroying everyone else in the league with some crazy scoreline (they haven't played us yet mind).Due to their aggressive recruitment strategy they are managing to stockpile a lot quality talents in every age group so the "weak age group" concept doesn't exist for them.For example among their 5 2000 born lads that were called up by England 3 at least are brought from other clubs (Fulham,Walford and I think Barnsley) at U13s,U14s and U15s respectively.

It's actually harder to compare academies than some think because you can't just judge on how many of them making their respective first team.For example Chelsea is no doubt currently the best academy in the countries but the pathway to their first team is non-existent (which shouldn't impact our judgement in their academy since the academy isn't one deciding who will be given chances).
 
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Surely there is some little ginger kid out there that idolized Scholes and has modelled his style and technique on the legend himself.
 
He really isn't an academy product, he didn't join them until he was 18.
He's a product of their academy's scouting and aggressive recruitment policy. Moreover, he probably joined because of their academy's reputation in the last few years and their world class facilities.
 
He's a product of their academy's scouting and aggressive recruitment policy. Moreover, he probably joined because of their academy's reputation in the last few years and their world class facilities.

Their aggressive recruitment policy referred to the lower age groups.He went straight to their EDS/first team.He has nothing to do with the academy.