Israel-Palestine | Genocide in Gaza

[Dumbstar]

Turning from a super power that supports genocide to one that actively commits genocide doesn't seem like the solution to me.

Which is doing which one, again? Palestine isn't a standalone first time incident. There is no other super power other than Russia and China in the game.

Imran Khan tried moving baby steps towards China's CBDC. We know where he is now, and with whose support. Very small example I know.

Edit: I can't believe I'm starting to forget him already. Rest in power Aaron Bushnell.

 

[Fenômeno]

Even the blurred image of the man who was run over is horrifying, and that's really an understatement to describe this evil.

Just saw the image it's awful, such disregard for human life. And it looked like a kid to me.

 

[Kaos]

Its reaching the point where you do wonder if the US even has a threshold for how much is too much.

The Israelis might as well just commit to full genocide, safe in the knowledge the US will block any diplomatic efforts to curtail them.

 

[Fenômeno]

Asked all the right questions but couldn't give any straight answers. Even US politicians know Israeli actions are not defendable yet here we are. It's bizzare.

 

[Goldfiessli]

When we accept China as the next real world power and align with it's CBDC (currency). They're no saints either, but they are are now a damn sight lesser of an evil than the States.

You can heavily criticise what the United States (and Israel of course) is doing, but acting like China is somehow morally superior is an insult to the Millions of people who suffer from the Party regime inside and outside of China.

 

[JPRouve]

Asked all the right questions but couldn't give any straight answers. Even US politicians know Israeli actions are not defendable yet here we are. It's bizzare.

The struggle was amazing, you can see what he wants to say but he can't actually say it.

 

[Giggsyking]

You can heavily criticise what the United States (and Israel of course) is doing, but acting like China is somehow morally superior is an insult to the Millions of people who suffer from the Party regime inside and outside of China.

I agree with you. But, there is something that you need to understand. People and specifically middle eastern, has been victims of wars perpetrated by exclusively the west. If you run a poll on what they would prefer to be aligned with at the moment (the west or China), I would be shocked if western camp would get more than 25% of the poll. I mean it is a series of massacres, and colonial wars, resources theft for the past 110 years, France killing more than 1 million Algerians, Italians in Libya, atrocities perpetrated by the British from 1916 in the region until very recently raging an unlawful invasion to Iraq causing the death and suffering of millions (plus 5 m refuges) that if we exclude destroying a stable country in Libya and exchanging the government with a bunch of Islamic fanatics.

The world does not evolve around the west and the world is not only western Europe and the USA. I do not say that easterners should turn their heads and embrace China, but I say you should understand why the public in the east/south would think that way, and instead of pushing them into the arms of China and causing more polarising to the world, you should come into more common grounds with them.

 

[Suv666]

Absolute fecking insanity. I haven’t seen this kind of violence ever. Israel has gone mad.
The fact they could commit whatever war crimes they want and get away with it makes me sick. What a cruel world man.

 

[The Corinthian]

I agree with you. But, there is something that you need to understand. People and specifically middle eastern, has been victims of wars perpetrated by exclusively the west. If you run a poll on what they would prefer to be aligned with at the moment (the west or China), I would be shocked if western camp would get more than 25% of the poll. I mean it is a series of massacres, and colonial wars, resources theft for the past 110 years, France killing more than 1 million Algerians, Italians in Libya, atrocities perpetrated by the British from 1916 in the region until very recently raging an unlawful invasion to Iraq causing the death and suffering of millions (plus 5 m refuges) that if we exclude destroying a stable country in Libya and exchanging the government with a bunch of Islamic fanatics.

The world does not evolve around the west and the world is not only western Europe and the USA. I do not say that easterners should turn their heads and embrace China, but I say you should understand why the public in the east/south would think that way, and instead of pushing them into the arms of China and causing more polarising to the world.

This is exactly it - it's the same in the subcontinent too (Afghanistan, & Pakistan particularly). It's obvious the US posters (or Europeans posters) would find it hard to believe given its a football forum for a UK based team, but the reality is that the world doesn't end on the border of Eastern Europe. China, for all of its ills, has invested heavily in Africa and has been on the charm offensive in the Middle East. It's not a hard decision to see who these states would prefer getting into bed with.

 

[RedC]

I agree with you. But, there is something that you need to understand. People and specifically middle eastern, has been victims of wars perpetrated by exclusively the west. If you run a poll on what they would prefer to be aligned with at the moment (the west or China), I would be shocked if western camp would get more than 25% of the poll. I mean it is a series of massacres, and colonial wars, resources theft for the past 110 years, France killing more than 1 million Algerians, Italians in Libya, atrocities perpetrated by the British from 1916 in the region until very recently raging an unlawful invasion to Iraq causing the death and suffering of millions (plus 5 m refuges) that if we exclude destroying a stable country in Libya and exchanging the government with a bunch of Islamic fanatics.

The world does not evolve around the west and the world is not only western Europe and the USA. I do not say that easterners should turn their heads and embrace China, but I say you should understand why the public in the east/south would think that way, and instead of pushing them into the arms of China and causing more polarising to the world, you should come into more common grounds with them.

The guy that said it lives in London.

 

[Denis79]

Absolute fecking insanity. I haven’t seen this kind of violence ever. Israel has gone mad.
The fact they could commit whatever war crimes they want and get away with it makes me sick. What a cruel world man.

As long as the US is there to keep throwing vetos left and right Israeli forces can do whatever they want. Israel are just as brutal if not even worse than the Russians but hey, that's all OK because they are allies. Hypocritical bullshit, all of it. I've tried to hold my tongue a long time but it's just heartbreaking what is going on.

 

[Giggsyking]

The guy that said it lives in London.

Would your political views about voting Trump or Biden change if you moved abroad from the united states?

Another thing. I am not embracing his point of view. I am talking on the background of the geopolitical conflict and why it would take more than few simple lines from west camp to push them away from the China camp.

 

[RedC]

Would your political views about voting Trump or Biden change if you moved abroad from the united states?

Another thing. I am not embracing his point of view. I am talking on the background of the geopolitical conflict and why it would take more than few simple lines from west camp to push them away from the China camp.

I understand what you're saying, I'm just saying he responded to a guy who I think is Scandinavian, as someone living in London, and said that 'We' need to move towards China. If he wasn't talking about Western Europe, then it wasn't very clear.

 

[UpWithRivers]

But why? The Russia War is obvious as is other Wars. Iraq etc. Even if you disagree with them you can see reasoning behind it. Why the US gives billions in aid to Israel which is a Western country with enough money is beyond me. I can see selling weapons helps the Industrial military complex. Ok. But then supporting the genocide? Why? What do they get out if it. Even if they think Hamas should be destroyed why support the genocide and mass destruction? I don't get it. What's in it for them? Why is Israel so key to the US that it will support them no matter what? Is there some sort of Geopolitics I don't get. That they need Israel to keep the region stable?

 

[Idxomer]

Its reaching the point where you do wonder if the US even has a threshold for how much is too much.

The Israelis might as well just commit to full genocide, safe in the knowledge the US will block any diplomatic efforts to curtail them.

I don't think anyone would keep defending this unless they were pulling the trigger themselves. This is the reality people should've accepted a long time ago. The US and Israel are the same entity in this genocide.

 

[Giggsyking]

 

[JPRouve]

But why? The Russia War is obvious as is other Wars. Iraq etc. Even if you disagree with them you can see reasoning behind it. Why the US gives billions in aid to Israel which is a Western country with enough money is beyond me. I can see selling weapons helps the Industrial military complex. Ok. But then supporting the genocide? Why? What do they get out if it. Even if they think Hamas should be destroyed why support the genocide and mass destruction? I don't get it. What's in it for them? Why is Israel so key to the US that it will support them no matter what? Is there some sort of Geopolitics I don't get. That they need Israel to keep the region stable?

I wonder if the answer isn't simply, Iran. Saudi Arabia has been shielded by the same nations during their "adventures" in Yemen. And one of the talking point was Iran supporting yemenis. I wonder if the US actions are more based on who they believe is on the other side.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

I wonder if the answer isn't simply, Iran. Saudi Arabia has been shielded by the same nations during their "adventures" in Yemen. And one of the talking point was Iran supporting yemenis. I wonder if the US actions are more based on who they believe is on the other side.

Must be. As I pointed out somewhere else, geopolitics is a game of 4D chess where only a handful of big players are involved. One wrong move with any ally could easily see a key piece on the chessboard moving to the other side just and thus it would lead to a greater loss of geopolitical influence down the road, just like the Soviets already made that mistake by favoring Iraq and Syria at the expense of Egypt (the key piece).

With Iran being the other big player, we can't expect a change in that game soon and unless their regime crumbles. And at the same time, there is a post-Netanyahu era to think about and thus the range of actions from the US is limited if the aim is to keep Israel within their circle of allies and avoid a repeat of the Egypt/Soviet Union fallout.

 

[Mike Smalling]

But why? The Russia War is obvious as is other Wars. Iraq etc. Even if you disagree with them you can see reasoning behind it. Why the US gives billions in aid to Israel which is a Western country with enough money is beyond me. I can see selling weapons helps the Industrial military complex. Ok. But then supporting the genocide? Why? What do they get out if it. Even if they think Hamas should be destroyed why support the genocide and mass destruction? I don't get it. What's in it for them? Why is Israel so key to the US that it will support them no matter what? Is there some sort of Geopolitics I don't get. That they need Israel to keep the region stable?

Yes, this is part of the official explanation. Israel being the only democracy in the region, collaborating with the US, sharing intelligence and all that is seen as a strategic benefit for US interests in the region. But it goes broader than that. First of all, the Israel lobby is tremendously powerful and aggressive in the US. AIPAC will systemically go after politicians that criticize Israel, and financially aid the ones that are supportive. Second, Biden and many other powerful politicians are self-described Zionists. Biden literally believes that no Jews would be safe if Israel didn't exist. With this world view, you are willing to go to extremes to protect it. And finally, there are Christian nutjob types that believe Israel plays a role in the rapture, which again just means that they can do pretty much no wrong in their view.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

But why? The Russia War is obvious as is other Wars. Iraq etc. Even if you disagree with them you can see reasoning behind it. Why the US gives billions in aid to Israel which is a Western country with enough money is beyond me. I can see selling weapons helps the Industrial military complex. Ok. But then supporting the genocide? Why? What do they get out if it. Even if they think Hamas should be destroyed why support the genocide and mass destruction? I don't get it. What's in it for them? Why is Israel so key to the US that it will support them no matter what? Is there some sort of Geopolitics I don't get. That they need Israel to keep the region stable?

The Biden administration has the desire to normalize relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia. This was having the perceived impact of sidelining the Palestinian state's cause permanently. The Hamas attack are seen by Biden himself as an attempt to disrupt this normalization. Important people in the administration are still pushing for normalization and trying to fold the Gaza war into it.

This is the geopolitical calculation, but there is also an element of prejudice involved there. Biden, many in his administration, and plenty of his supporters, simply do not believe that Arab lives are very valuable compared to Israeli lives. If you think that way, your calculations of what a political win might look like, will differ from other people's.

 

[maniak]

See @Krakenzero this is support.

 

[maniak]

When we accept China as the next real world power and align with it's CBDC (currency). They're no saints either, but they are are now a damn sight lesser of an evil than the States.

China are also engaged in various genocides.

 

[Smores]

Given how they're managing to avoid any proper pushback you would think Israel are likely to ramp it up soon. I wouldn't be surprised if there's an 'accident' blamed on Hamas that kills several thousand.

They clearly don't care about killing civilians so if they can get away with it they no doubt will. No different to the Russians in the regard.

 

[Deleted 112447]

Absolute fecking insanity. I haven’t seen this kind of violence ever. Israel has gone mad.
The fact they could commit whatever war crimes they want and get away with it makes me sick. What a cruel world man.

Ever since the present day. Multiple cities completely destroyed and 7 million refuges. Ukraine.

 

[That_Bloke]

"Israel is under increasing scrutinity over the War in Gaza, these videos might add fuel to criticism" - CNN

 

[Shez]

Accidentally saw the photo of the kid tied up and then flattened by the tank - been feeling physically sick since

 

[That_Bloke]

But why? The Russia War is obvious as is other Wars. Iraq etc. Even if you disagree with them you can see reasoning behind it. Why the US gives billions in aid to Israel which is a Western country with enough money is beyond me. I can see selling weapons helps the Industrial military complex. Ok. But then supporting the genocide? Why? What do they get out if it. Even if they think Hamas should be destroyed why support the genocide and mass destruction? I don't get it. What's in it for them? Why is Israel so key to the US that it will support them no matter what? Is there some sort of Geopolitics I don't get. That they need Israel to keep the region stable?

Israel is the West's and the US' bridgehead in the region, the so-called "beacon of light" in the Middle-East. You can add the weight of History, highly religious and cultural affinities, and an institutional racism contempt towards Arabs in general and Palestinians in particular.

When you combine all of these factors, everything makes sense.

 

[The Corinthian]

Israel is the West's and the US' bridgehead in the region, the so-called "beacon of light" in the Middle-East. You can add the weight of History, highly religious and cultural affinities, and an institutional racism towards Arabs in general and Palestinians in particular.

When you combine all of these factors, everything makes sense.

There's also probably something in there about a European colonial project (how the US was founded) backing another European colonial project (Israel).

 

[The Corinthian]

Ever since the present day. Multiple cities completely destroyed and 7 million refuges. Ukraine.

Whatever the Russians are doing / have done pales in comparison to what Israel have done over the last 5 months by most metrics that have compared the two.

Although, I'd say it's a fool's game to try and have this ranking of who's worse (Israel is worse).

 

[Idxomer]

Spoiler: They lie and they lie and they lie and they lie and they lie and they lie

 

[Deleted 112447]

Whatever the Russians are doing / have done pales in comparison to what Israel have done over the last 5 months by most metrics that have compared the two.

Although, I'd say it's a fool's game to try and have this ranking of who's worse (Israel is worse).

7 million refuges. Mass graves found on just the territories that were won back. Tens of thousands of kids taken for "re education in Russia".

How the feck does this pale in comparison to anything short of WW2?

 

[Mike Smalling]

There's also probably something in there about a European colonial project (how the US was founded) backing another European colonial project (Israel).

Israel is exactly that - a colonial state that exists in a post-colonial age. I suspect you are right, that reckoning with that fact would also mean reckoning with the colonial history of the US and UK in particular, something many are not willing to do.

 

[Idxomer]

And while we're talking about lying, the EU has reinstated funding for the UNRWA.

 

[That_Bloke]

There's also probably something in there about a European colonial project (how the US was founded) backing another European colonial project (Israel).

Definitely. There's eery similarities between the US' and Israel's foundation.

Game recognizes game.

 

[Mike Smalling]

The US was formed by breaking away from colonial Europe. The UK has f all colonial behavior today or for many years.

The only power that still acts like a colonial entity is Russia.

Hence, the word "history". And if you count Israel as a power, which I would argue you should, Russia is definitely not the only colonial entity in the world.

 

[Kaos]

7 million refuges. Mass graves found on just the territories that were won back. Tens of thousands of kids taken for "re education in Russia".

How the feck does this pale in comparison to anything short of WW2?

The difference is the Ukrainians can fight back, and have the bulk of the Western world pitching in to do so. Their refugees are also given red carpet treatment in Europe.

Meanwhile the same Western world looks the other way, or worse - sponsors a genocide in Palestine.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Accidentally saw the photo of the kid tied up and then flattened by the tank - been feeling physically sick since

Yes, one of the worst things you'll ever see. Subhuman cnuts.

 

[Idxomer]

The problem is that even papers that appear sympathetic to Palestinians are part of the propaganda machine.

 

[The Corinthian]

The US was formed by breaking away from colonial Europe. The UK has f all colonial behavior today or for many years.

The only power that still acts like a colonial entity is Russia.

So they broke away from 'colonial Europe' to where? And whom did they find already there? And what happened to those already there?

 

[Deleted 112447]

The difference is the Ukrainians can fight back, and have the bulk of the Western world pitching in to do so. Their refugees are also given red carpet treatment in Europe.

Meanwhile the same Western world looks the other way, or worse - sponsors a genocide in Palestine.

No. They have a similar treatment to the Afghan, Syrian, etc people. There was more of an effort because there were a lot of people at the same time.

A red carpet treatment? Where do you get your information from? Do you think it's a racisms or religious based thing? If that were so, there would be 0 people from the middle east coming in. But there are many millions welcome to Europe as they should be.

Drop this feel sorry for myself when it come to the EU taking on people.