Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

From the BBC:

An Israeli military source says Israeli soldiers opened fire as some in the crowd moved towards them in a way that was "endangering the troops"
Israeli government spokesperson Avi Hyman has described what happened as a "tragedy" and said initial indications were that the deaths were caused by delivery trucks "ploughing into crowds of people" waiting for aid to be distributed
Meanwhile, an IDF statement said residents surrounded aid trucks prior to the incident and "looted supplies", and dozens were killed as a result of "pushing, trampling and being run over by the trucks"

All they ever do is murder, then lie about it, get caught out lying and then shrug their shoulders. Absolutely despicable cnuts of the highest order.
 
Badunk said:
From the BBC:

An Israeli military source says Israeli soldiers opened fire as some in the crowd moved towards them in a way that was "endangering the troops"
Israeli government spokesperson Avi Hyman has described what happened as a "tragedy" and said initial indications were that the deaths were caused by delivery trucks "ploughing into crowds of people" waiting for aid to be distributed
Meanwhile, an IDF statement said residents surrounded aid trucks prior to the incident and "looted supplies", and dozens were killed as a result of "pushing, trampling and being run over by the trucks"

All they ever do is murder, then lie about it, get caught out lying and then shrug their shoulders. Absolutely despicable cnuts of the highest order.
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There is no word that describes them. Cnuts just isn't strong enough.

Rest in power Aaron Bushnell
 
Idxomer said:
A huge massacre happened, and the scenes are harrowing which is why I won't post any tweets.

They fired on thousands waiting for aid, at least 77 Palestinians were killed and 250 wounded.
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This is awful. No humanity, horrible times. I barely go to Twitter anymore because this conflict is really taking a toll on me. It's just massacres, after massacres, children starving, people getting shot with white flags, parents crying for their children buried in rubble, a daily occurrence that doesn't stop. These people have been abandoned by the world and any western high ground has been lost forever.
 
They're saying people were run over by trucks deliberately or were so impatient for the aid that they got run over by accident. Yet there's gunfire galore in the footage. It's just incredible the brass neck on them to lie so blatantly when the evidence is there for all to see. It's like an army of Boris Johnsons with the latest weaponry and a hatred for Palestinians.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
It's a funny line but not much of a point:

Israeli Police Ask Victims and Witnesses to Testify About Hamas Sexual Violence - January 4th, 2024.
Israel's police investigators are having difficulties finding living victims of or witnesses to sexual assault committed by Hamas on October 7, due to the fact that many of the victims were killed that day, taken hostage or are in a state of psychological distress and unable to testify.

"We have circumstantial indications that there are victims who are still alive who haven't contacted us yet," said Superintendent Adi Edri, normally an investigator in the unit that handles online sex crimes against minors, who is currently in charge of investigating sexual assault committed during the massacre. "That's why we have turned to the media. We didn't do this lightly."
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Seems a bit convenient.
 
Badunk said:
They're saying people were run over by trucks deliberately or were so impatient for the aid that they got run over by accident. Yet there's gunfire galore in the footage. It's just incredible the brass neck on them to lie so blatantly when the evidence is there for all to see. It's like an army of Boris Johnsons with the latest weaponry and a hatred for Palestinians.
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They lie simply because they get away with it, knowing whatever nonsense spews from their genocidal mouths gets accepted as gospel by the Western powers. Why bother holding back on murdering and terrorising a desperate civilian population when some Israeli spokesman can conjure up some convenient portrayal of events that they know will be accepted as the objective truth. Knowing full well their allies, to quote Boris Johnson, will 'consider this matter closed'.
 
Kaos said:
They lie simply because they get away with it, knowing whatever nonsense spews from their genocidal mouths gets accepted as gospel by the Western powers. Why bother holding back on murdering and terrorising a desperate civilian population when some Israeli spokesman can conjure up some convenient portrayal of events that they know will be accepted as the objective truth. Knowing full well their allies, to quote Boris Johnson, will 'consider this matter closed'.
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It's not even convenient. Even in their contradicting versions, they are responsible. The leading terrorist in their government put out a statement praising his army of cnuts for their actions.
 
Idxomer said:
It's not even convenient. Even in their contradicting versions, they are responsible. The leading terrorist in their government put out a statement praising his army of cnuts for their actions.
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Even then their allies will do all the leg work to absolve their culpability. We'll still see the usual BBC headlines of 'Palestinians found dead' and 'young Palestinian adult lost their lives'.
 
Kaos said:
Even then their allies will do all the leg work to absolve their culpability. We'll still see the usual BBC headlines of 'Palestinians found dead' and 'young Palestinian adult lost their lives'.
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Yeah, I'm not disputing that. CNN described it as a chaotic incident.
 
Kaos said:
That's precisely what the world is doing though. Except this isn't some balanced, symmetrical war between two armies. Its a regional miltiary superpower backed by a global superpower waging a campaign of destruction on a largely civilian population, claiming they're targeting an existential threat, with said threat being a bunch of militiamen with rudimentary homemade weapons. By letting it play out you're essentially advocating for the the Israeli/US end game, which is the full ethnic cleansing of the native Palestinian population, hoping neighbouring countries take in the fleeing Palestinians as refugees.

There is a simple way to end this conflict - end the occupation of Palestinian territories, give the Palestinians their nation, and insist Israel withdraw from their colonial settlements and declare their borders. Until the US decides it doesn't want to sponsor a genocide and actually twist Israel's arm in behaving like a civilised nation, then we're only going to see this suffering prolonged, or the Palestinians cleansed from the land.
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Maybe the world is letting the first part play out but is it letting in reguees?
 
Kyonn said:
Maybe the world is letting the first part play out but is it letting in reguees?
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The Western world has no desire to take in refugees who aren't Ukrainian atm, as for the Arab world, its essentially a red line for them. Firstly because they aren't capable of housing millions of Palestinian refugees (some of which currently do), but also ultimately because in doing so would dignify Israel's attempts to ethnically cleanse the native Palestinian population. We should be pushing for an autonomous state the Palestinians can call their home, without the barbaric treatment and subjugation from Israelis, not cheerleading Israel's attempt to colonise the entire territory for their settlers. And yes, letting this play out as is would be to default to the latter stance.
 
Kaos said:
The Western world has no desire to take in refugees who aren't Ukrainian atm, as for the Arab world, its essentially a red line for them. Firstly because they aren't capable of housing millions of Palestinian refugees (some of which currently do), but also ultimately because in doing so would dignify Israel's attempts to ethnically cleanse the native Palestinian population. We should be pushing for an autonomous state the Palestinians can call their home, without the barbaric treatment and subjugation from Israelis, not cheerleading Israel's attempt to colonise the entire territory for their settlers. And yes, letting this play out as is would be to default to the latter stance.
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Definitely not "cheerleadering". Not taking either side. I'm just old enough to have seen these two fight this out for way to long. I gave up on a Palestinian state back in the late 90s. There is zero good guys in this conflict.
 
Kyonn said:
Definitely not "cheerleadering". Not taking either side. I'm just old enough to have seen these two fight this out for way to long. I gave up on a Palestinian state back in the late 90s. There is zero good guys in this conflict.
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There's quite clearly good guys, such as the innocent Palestinian women and children being murdered in front of our eyes. This 'both sides' and 'as bad as each other' schtick is nonsense.
 
The Corinthian said:
There's quite clearly good guys, such as the innocent Palestinian women and children being murdered in front of our eyes. This 'both sides' and 'as bad as each other' schtick is nonsense.
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That singular woman isn't a side. There two sides, the Israelis and the Palestinians. And while what the Israelis are doing is horrific let's stop pretending the Palestinians are blameless. The Oct attacks were Israel's Pearl Harbor. At least so far, they haven't dropped two atomic bombs
 
Kyonn said:
Everytime I see this thread bumped I'm reminded of a quote I heard of the Charlie Rose show 20 years ago: "The Israelis will always win, and the Palestinians will always be there to make sure they don't enjoy it"

Maybe the solution is to let them fight it out once and for all and the rest of the world take any refugees that want to leave. This nearly century old conflict needs to stop.
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What a disgusting take.
 
Kyonn said:
Definitely not "cheerleadering". Not taking either side. I'm just old enough to have seen these two fight this out for way to long. I gave up on a Palestinian state back in the late 90s. There is zero good guys in this conflict.
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If you gave up on a Palestinian state then you are siding with Israel.
 
Kyonn said:
That singular woman isn't a side. There two sides, the Israelis and the Palestinians. And while what the Israelis are doing is horrific let's stop pretending the Palestinians are blameless. The Oct attacks were Israel's Pearl Harbor. At least so far, they haven't dropped two atomic bombs
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They constitute the vast majority both of the living and the slain and it's perfectly possible to be on their side.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
They constitute the vast majority both of the living and the slain and It's perfectly possible to be on their side.
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Fine, if you take that POV I still say the best course of action is to lobby your government to take them in refugees.
 
Kyonn said:
Fine, if you take that POV I still say the best course of action is to lobby your government to take them in refugees.
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The best course of action is for Israel to stop killing them in their thousands.
 
Kyonn said:
I'm not. Where did I say or imply I was?
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Here?

Kyonn said:
Definitely not "cheerleadering". Not taking either side. I'm just old enough to have seen these two fight this out for way to long. I gave up on a Palestinian state back in the late 90s. There is zero good guys in this conflict.
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Not meaning to sandbag you in anyway, but this is unfortunately a 'conflict' where the whole 'I'm not taking a side' approach defaults to an acceptance of the status quo, which historically has been the occupation, subjugation and oppression of the native Palestinian population, and more recently an ongoing genocide.

This isn't some symmetrical 'fight' that has been going on for decades. Its always been a regional superpower backed by a global superpower oppressing and gradually withering away a mostly helpless and increasingly desperate civilian population, who in their desperation often turn to hit and run tactics and occasional acts of terror.

For me this tragedy isn't a particularly complicated one. You either support the Palestinian right to a nation which is theirs by birth and generational ancestry, or you accept the Israeli drive to pillage, occupy and drive out what remains of them. This isn't a conventional clash of heads between two equally sparring adversaries over trivial border disputes.
 
Comparing Pearl Harbor to what happened in October is one of the most baffling things I've read here, and we have had our share of nonsensical takes in here.
 
Kaos said:
Here?



Not meaning to sandbag you in anyway, but this is unfortunately a 'conflict' where the whole 'I'm not taking a side' approach defaults to an acceptance of the status quo, which historically has been the occupation, subjugation and oppression of the native Palestinian population, and more recently an ongoing genocide.

This isn't some symmetrical 'fight' that has been going on for decades. Its always been a regional superpower backed by a global superpower oppressing and gradually withering away a mostly helpless and increasingly desperate civilian population, who in their desperation often turn to hit and run tactics and occasional acts of terror.
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I gave up on the idea of a two state solution not because I took Israel's side but because I realized by the late 90s that there was no two state solution that both side would agree to. I take no side in this.
 
Also, even if that's not your intention let them fight it out once and for all means you support genocide.

That is a position that shouldn't be acceptable here.
 
Kyonn said:
I gave up on the idea of a two state solution not because I took Israel's side but because I realized by the late 90s that there was no two state solution that both side would agree to. I take no side in this.
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But again that would mean an endorsement of the status quo which benefits Israel. In fact Israel doesn't need overt support, all it needs is apathy and impunity so it can see its colonial aspirations to completion without ramifications. Neither the Apartheid South African regime nor the ANC could agree on a solution, does that mean we should have just let the Praetorian government continue their apartheid policy without insisting on international pressure to do the right thing?

The only way this conflict ends is if Israel ends the occupation or ethnically cleanses or kills all the Palestinians. That's the choice presented to us. The question is which do you find more palatable?
 
Idxomer said:
Also, even if that's not your intention let them fight it out once and for all means you support genocide.

That is a position that shouldn't be acceptable here.
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Exactly. It’s tacit genocide support, coming either from malice or a toddler level understanding of the situation.
 
Kaos said:
But again that would mean an endorsement of the status quo which benefits Israel. In fact Israel doesn't need overt support, all it needs is apathy and impunity so it can see its colonial aspirations to completion without ramifications. Neither the Apartheid South African regime nor the ANC could agree on a solution, does that mean we should have just let the Praetorian government continue their apartheid policy without insisting on international pressure to do the right thing?
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I'm not endorsing anything. I'm simply saying I in no way want to be a party to this conflict.
 
Idxomer said:
Comparing Pearl Harbor to what happened in October is one of the most baffling things I've read here, and we have had our share of nonsensical takes in here.
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It’s mental gymnastics. It’s always mental gymnastics with these types who claim they’re objective or take no side but don’t have the balls to just admit they hate the Palestinian cause.
 
The Corinthian said:
It’s mental gymnastics. It’s always mental gymnastics with these types who claim they’re objective or take no side but don’t have the balls to just admit they hate the Palestinian cause.
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Yes, comparing one sneak attack that killed thousands to another sneak attack that killed thousands is mental gymnastics.
 
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