That will only happen when the US finally gets rid of all lobbies and has a president able to look past their next mandate.
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Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
The Hebrew tweet translated:
Netayanhu and his cohorts word of commitment don't mean a thing
Saudi Arabia aint shit if they go ahead on this basis. Feel even worse for the Palestinians as no one wants to help it seems.. (sigh)Unfortunately they're even here in England as well...
All these politicians are just full of shit.
I don't know about that, unfortunately, but I'm pretty sure most Israelis would see them as terrorists as well. Such is the dehumanization of Palestenians in Israeli eyes.
I'm quite old now. I've seen what all of them have done abroad. It's my opinion as I mentioned.
At the same time, isn't it unfair to pin that need of leadership on one geopolitical superpower when the others are basically relinquishing their own duties as geopolitical players? I just have a hard time finding sense in blaming the only big player still willing to navigate through that maze while the others are not even attempting anything like the bystanders they are.
I can and I do.
What other superpowers are you referring to?
Did you even read the post that I quoted? The fact that Russia and China do next to nothing except yapping at best speaks volumes of their own.
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There's a lot of miscalculation, IMO.
Biden is a politician from a different era. I don't think he understood how this would play out among Democratic voters in 2024. I also suspect that neither him nor his administration really understood how little Israel would care about keeping any pretense of not being all in on destroying Gaza.
Have you seen this?
How is this acceptable to the israeli society? Anyone still believes this the best way to bring about security?
I just wanted to make sure you were comparing the US to china and russia in terms of responsibility towards world peace. Two dictatorships that treat their own citizens like numbers in an excel sheet and the self proclaimed world's greatest democracy, defender of peace and human rights.
Why would people expect more from the US than china or russia?
At least the mask is almost completely off and people will start having the same expectations. In this specific conflict, I think even the biggest critics of american foreign policy are stunned with what's happening, supporting genocide and not giving two fecks. Bold strategy.
The US is providing military aid by the billions to Israel as they commit their genocide.
What an unfair comment, haven't you heard that even without all those billions and political support in the UN and pretty much everywhere else, netanyahu would still be doing the same because the US have no real power or influence?
I understand what you mean, I really do.
But the biggest influence on Israel is the US. The US is the biggest provider of military aid and diplomatic protection. The lead must come from the US. And if the US asks the Chinese, Russians etc to join the peace effort and those parties refuse, it'll reflect bad on them anyway. Now the situation reflects bad on the West too.
This is surprising.. We were hearing in early December that they’d already killed many of Hamas military leaders and were closing on on Sinwar himself.
How could China or Russia possibly influence the conflict, I'd really like to know. By bombing Israel maybe?
The whole point is that Israel is banking on US support to commit genocide, if there wasn't such support, Israel would be far less willing to commit to such atrocities, and such atrocitied would also get much bigger response from Egypt and Iran.
It is ridiculous to pin anything on anyone but USA (apart from Israel), not actually ridiculous but either extremely naive or dishonest if there is no naivety involved.
The whole point is that Israel is banking on US support to commit genocide, if there wasn't such support, Israel would be far less willing to commit to such atrocities, and such atrocitied would also get much bigger response from Egypt and Iran.
It is ridiculous to pin anything on anyone but USA (apart from Israel), not actually ridiculous but either extremely naive or dishonest if there is no naivety involved.
I actually disagree here. I think Biden, Blinken and co knew exactly how the Israeli government would behave imho. What neither Biden and co and their friends in Israel didn't take into consideration was social media, and the reaction of the public (or most of them anyway).
The IDF are shit at ground warfare (or whatever the correct phrase is). If they didn't have bombs supplied by the US, and would only fight Hamas instead of killing women and children, the 'war' would already be over.
I have read this last night and it's absolutely terrible. I don't know how any of the people involved could have looked at her and do nothing.
Haaretz is probably the only media outlet to publish it. So most of the Israeli society won't even know about it.
I don't think that's the case. But the IDF can't be everywhere at the same time and it moves on to other areas, Hamas returns to the ones that it cleared.
That's the price of not having any sort of real plan for the future.
I think he's in a loss-loss situation and at the moment seems to be just buying himself time without a clear plan.
Yep, he's been stalling for a while and even before the war, buying time was his usual modus operandi, but time is running out on that now. Unless Hamas itself causes the deal to collapse.
THEY ARE THE MAIN WEAPONS SUPPLIERS AND DIPLOMATIC BACKERS OF ISRAEL. IS A LOBOTOMY A REQUIREMENT FOR ALL POSTING ON THIS SUBJECT????
The obvious answer to this is to refer to the ~1000 US citizens being bombed, executed, starved in Gaza now, but we all understand that they're not real Americans. The real telling answer is that the US did nothing while the IDF squelched the no-Arab-blood-quantum white woman Rachel Corrie under a bulldozer and did nothing again while the IDF celebrates Pancake Day in her honour.
I wouldn't bother. There isn't a single take of his on international matters and current events that doesn't miss the mark by a few miles.
You can a learn a lot from him about immature peoples from certain non-western nations though.
Very few, if any. The Tibetans are a great people I'm sure and good for them.
I didn't say that Hamas is the only possible outcome of a desperate people. I said that I don't find it that surprising that such people can turn to such groups and I used the examples of Europeans turning to far right political groups because their incredibly high standard of living by global standards has dropped slightly to still be amongst the very highest levels of living in the world.
The same could also be said for Israel of course, who choose increasingly right wing and extreme governments and overwhelming violence. Guess its more OK when its the stronger party though.
Read that 5 countries will resume funding for the UNRWA, Canada is among them apparently.
A historical question: how could Jews purchase land in the 20s and 30s during British rule? Who did they buy the land from? Palestinian landowners?
Whole I agree with your overall point that people aren't deserving of genocide or harm as a result of their government's actions, serious questions do still need to be raised over the psyche of Israeli society as a whole when you consider recent polling:
It's so disconcerting when you see the atrocities being carried out and the population of the perpetrating country not being moved a single inch. Where is the humanity and empathy when children are dying, let alone everything else?
Also, yes, Israel is a young country, but we surely can't compare a country that was created out of a UN mandate to others that had been created during the age of empires? And even then, you're not seeing atrocities being committed by other young nations today, basket cases though some of them maybe (looking at you, Pakistan)
(Obviously) I don't think there is anything genetically deterministic about this conflict. But I think blaming the leaders, done by a lot of well-meaning people on both sides, is not fully correct.
On the Israeli side, the right-wing shift is well-documented: from election outcomes (last cycle's extreme untouchable becomes the next cycle's coalition partner and then a respectable moderate, rinse and repeat for decades), from opinion polling (if the public was in charge, the IDF would be more cruel), and from any number of vox pop style-videos.
Public polling from the West Bank shows massive support for Hamas and the concept of armed resistance. While support for Hamas is lower (but still >50% iirc) in Gaza, possibly because of what Israel did after 10/7, I think - without solid proof - that a lot of the more sordid stories of 10/7 come from the later stages, when the general Gazan population (rather than Hamas fighters) broke through the fence. There are hints of this in some articles and in the language used in a recent Hamas document.
Overall I'd say the leadership of both sides (excluding the very unpopular Abbas) is at least reflective of their populations, if not more moderate.
And yes, it is because of nurture not nature. It would not make much sense if it was the other way. I can see a somewhat similar process happening in the country where I'm from.
I don't know how reversible these things are, especially in the short term. Even the famed German "memory" got genuine popular support after two decades of official looking-the-other-way, when the next generation, removed from both the hate propaganda and the war, could look back at the monstrous past.
Almost two thirds came from 'foreign' landowners (obviously the concept of this was quite different back in the early 20th century than it is now), as well from organisations like businesses or religious institutions etc.
Even earlier than the 20s, I'm actually not totally sure. Maybe @2cents can provide some input.