Israel - Iran and regional players | Please post respectfully and stay on topic

[Gehrman]

It's Iran, so what?

This is the kind of shady shortcuts people love to use to downplay or excuse crimes they would otherwise be absolutely mad at if they were commited against another country/people they have more affinities with.

Sentences like "I know it's Iran but..." are exactly the point where a dehumanization process starts.

TBH if this had been the reverse situation where lets say an enemy of Israel did precisely the same to members of the IDF, wouldnt most members here say they had it coming? Im wondering how in the arena of war where you no longer have open field battles, but instead have guerilla warfare and covert warfare can escape collateral damage. Striking at your enemy without civilian casualties seems virtually impossible in wider sense in the context of these wars and so far compared to most military operations, this has been a far more discrimimate than well most military operations on this scale. I´d be interested in knowing how members on the CAF would conjure tactics in real life scenarios where collateral damage simply doesnt happen in actual wars where your enemy wants to wipe off the face of the earth.

 

[nazanto]

US will make sure of that

I mean yeah definitely US will make sure Israel have enough ammunitions and bombs if Israel decided to start invading Lebanon. Afterall Israel cant have enough bombs to defend themselves.

 

[glazed]

"Really. What percentage of the injured and killed were Hezbollah. 99.9%? Isn't that quite good? Or is everything Israel does evil by definition?"
You literally said this. Why the hell did you say 99.9% if you didn't know the figure at all, is that some weird estimation of yours?

You know the meaning of a question mark? It denotes something not being a statement.

Ah you know what, this is a waste of time.

Yes it is. You have your own narrative, layer upon layer of it, and anything different just makes you angry.

 

[11101]

You literally just made this up. Nor Iranian regulars, nor Iranian militia, nor IRGC were in Fallujah, in either the 1st Battle of Fallujah or the 2nd.

They did show up, to HELP Iraq and Western Forces in 2016 fight vs ISIS.

You might want to tell that to the US and British forces who were hitting targets in the city back in 2004 and finding Iranians there. Post Blackwater when the tempo went crazy it was a regular occurrence.

 

[Raoul]

You might want to tell that to the US and British forces who were hitting targets in the city back in 2004 and finding Iranians there. Post Blackwater when the tempo went crazy it was a regular occurrence.

Got any credible links to back up the Iranians in Fallujah claim ?

 

[AfonsoAlves]

Got any credible links to back up the Iranians in Fallujah claim ?

Since his claim yesterday, I trawled through all the AAR's, documents, testimonies, biographies from Army and USMC, and in about 2 hours of skimming I found ONE reference,

in a US Marines after-action filed that mentioned they found a SINGLE body of a guy who had an Iranian passport.

 

[Raoul]

Since his claim yesterday, I trawled through all the AAR's, documents, testimonies, biographies from Army and USMC, and in about 2 hours of skimming I found ONE reference,

in a US Marines after-action filed that mentioned they found a SINGLE body of a guy who had an Iranian passport.

I was in country for 4.5 years and never once heard of anything about Iranians in Fallujah, so was curious.

 

[AfonsoAlves]

I was in country for 4.5 years and never once heard of anything about Iranians in Fallujah, so was curious.

Yeah likewise in my time in Iraq and studying it, never once heard of anyone claim or speak of Iranians in Fallujah.

 

[AfonsoAlves]

TBH if this had been the reverse situation where lets say an enemy of Israel did precisely the same to members of the IDF, wouldnt most members here say they had it coming? Im wondering how in the arena of war where you no longer have open field battles, but instead have guerilla warfare and covert warfare can escape collateral damage. Striking at your enemy without civilian casualties seems virtually impossible in wider sense in the context of these wars and so far compared to most military operations, this has been a far more discrimimate than well most military operations on this scale. I´d be interested in knowing how members on the CAF would conjure tactics in real life scenarios where collateral damage simply doesnt happen in actual wars where your enemy wants to wipe off the face of the earth.

Israel has killed 2x more civilians than the western coalition did in 20 years of Middle Eastern conflict

 

[Gehrman]

Israel has killed 2x more civilians than the western coalition did in 20 years of Middle Eastern conflict

I was talking about this particular mission not what has Israel has done in the last 80 years on the whole.

 

[AfonsoAlves]

I was talking about this particular mission not what has Israel has done in the last 80 years on the whole.

I’m not saying what Israel has done in 80 years.

In 10 months they have killed 2x what coalition did to civilians in 20 years

They don’t have a single feck to give about collateral death

 

[Gehrman]

I’m not saying what Israel has done in 80 years.

In 10 months they have killed 2x what coalition did to civilians in 20 years

They don’t have a single feck to give about collateral death

I was still commenting on this mission. But ok. Im not trying to glorify Israel.

 

[11101]

Got any credible links to back up the Iranians in Fallujah claim ?

Nothing public I'm afraid. I'll say I have some very good friends who were on these raids.

You had three main groups at the time. Ex Iraqi uniformed, Fedayeen etc. Then government backed militias using the rat lines to get in via Syria, these were where the Iranians came from but there were also others. Then a rag tag bunch of other fundamentalists.

 

[AfonsoAlves]

Nothing public I'm afraid. I'll say I have some very good friends who were on these raids.

You had three main groups at the time. Ex Iraqi uniformed, Fedayeen etc. Then government backed militias using the rat lines to get in via Syria, these were where the Iranians came from but there were also others. Then a rag tag bunch of other fundamentalists.

Source: I made it up

(All Fallujah related operations were declassified by MOD in 2010 and DoD in 2013

 

[11101]

Source: I made it up

Source: I worked in defence in the mid 2000s.

We also kept finding Zarqawis guys with Iranian made weapons in the Sunni triangle, but your textbooks would tell you they should despise each other. That one you might be able to Google.

 

[Raoul]

Nothing public I'm afraid. I'll say I have some very good friends who were on these raids.

You had three main groups at the time. Ex Iraqi uniformed, Fedayeen etc. Then government backed militias using the rat lines to get in via Syria, these were where the Iranians came from but there were also others. Then a rag tag bunch of other fundamentalists.

So you're saying Iranians were fighting in Fallujah via Syria ?

 

[ScholesyTheWise]

low and behold, Bibi just got his much craved war on the northern front.
let's all act surprised on the count of 1....2.....3....

 

[AfonsoAlves]

Source: I worked in defence in the mid 2000s.

We also kept finding Zarqawis guys with Iranian made weapons in the Sunni triangle, but your textbooks would tell you they should despise each other. That one you might be able to Google.

Defense is very broad.

What did you do? Intelligence? Joint Staff? Officer? Enlisted?

Or were you a civilian consultant? Or for MIC?

 

[VorZakone]

 

[VorZakone]

 

[11101]

So you're saying Iranians were fighting in Fallujah via Syria ?

Syria was the route into that part of Iraq at the time.

 

[glazed]

They don’t have a single feck to give about collateral death

I think this is fair comment. They really don't. It's not about genocide. It's not even about ethnic cleansing (though the Israelis would certainly would like that outcome, it's unrealistic in the short term.) But they are happy to go through any number of non combatants to get to Hamas. The alternative is to leave them alive.

 

[berbatrick]

 

[ScholesyTheWise]

Regarding this tweet.

I lived in Metula for 5 years, right on the border with Lebanon. we used to see "civilian goat herders" with binoculars from our balconies (they had the binoculrs, I mean).
they look at you, you wave toward them, and they leave with the herd that just stands behind them on dirt roads with no grass to eat. herders my ass.

So yeah, it was present the entire time.

I knew that what ended up happening on Oct 7th could very well happen from Hezbollah's side as well, but neglected the thought in order to be able to live my day-to-day life. I have many friends who still lived in Metula in Oct 2023 (I left in 2022), and they have been evacuated from their homes for the past year.

It's a huge talking point and issue within Israeli society. they suffer immense financial and psychological burdens.

I can attest firsthand that people who live on the border fear much less that their home will someday get hit by a missile,
and much more from somebody kidnapping them away into Lebanon, leaving them to rot in tunnels until Bibi decides their release fits his short-term political gains, whichever they might be in the future.

Some houses will get bombarded in northern Israel, but the numbers won't be all that huge if I had to guess.
and it will last for a couple of weeks, maybe 2-3 months. Hezb' doesn't have an endless amount of missiles, and Israel doesn't have an endless amount of air bombs.



Many people won't come back to live in the north of Israel because the lost the belief that the IDF can avoid another infiltration en mass to and Israeli town.

 

[AfonsoAlves]

Regarding this tweet.

I lived in Metula for 5 years, right on the border with Lebanon. we used to see "civilian goat herders" with binoculars from our balconies (they had the binoculrs, I mean).
they look at you, you wave toward them, and they leave with the herd that just stands behind them on dirt roads with no grass to eat. herders my ass.

So yeah, it was present the entire time.

I knew that what ended up happening on Oct 7th could very well happen from Hezbollah's side as well, but neglected the thought in order to be able to live my day-to-day life. I have many friends who still lived in Metula in Oct 2023 (I left in 2022), and they have been evacuated from their homes for the past year.

It's a huge talking point and issue within Israeli society. they suffer immense financial and psychological burdens.

I can attest firsthand that people who live on the border fear much less that their home will someday get hit by a missile,
and much more from somebody kidnapping them away into Lebanon, leaving them to rot in tunnels until Bibi decides their release fits his short-term political gains, whichever they might be in the future.

Some houses will get bombarded in northern Israel, but the numbers won't be all that huge if I had to guess.
and it will last for a couple of weeks, maybe 2-3 months. Hezb' doesn't have an endless amount of missiles, and Israel doesn't have an endless amount of air bombs.



Many people won't come back to live in the north of Israel because the lost the belief that the IDF can avoid another infiltration en mass to and Israeli town.

Hezbollah has an estimated 100k rockets.

If Israel keeps continuing to get funded by US, US's big problem with bomb inventory is spending huge amounts of money on bunkers to store them all.

 

[Member 21058]

They don’t have a single feck to give about collateral death

Agreed but do you think Hezbolla does?

Hezbolla would've carried out the exact same attacks if they had the capability to. There is no moral high ground in these conflicts. Only a matter of who has the better weapons and tactics.

 

[AfonsoAlves]

Agreed but do you think Hezbolla does?

Hezbolla would've carried out the exact same attacks if they had the capability to. There is no moral high ground in these conflicts. Only a matter of who has the better weapons and tactics.

One is a Shia militant group designated as a terror group.

Sorry for having slightly higher expectations for a western backed nation state with a gdp per capita the same as Western Europe.

 

[4bars]

Agreed but do you think Hezbolla does?

Hezbolla would've carried out the exact same attacks if they had the capability to. There is no moral high ground in these conflicts. Only a matter of who has the better weapons and tactics.

Equating a democratic state to a terrorist group standards. Noice

 

[Member 21058]

Hezbollah is a pollical party that holds 15 seats in parliament so labeling them a mere terrorist group is wrong. But it's irreverent, I'm not going to hold two sides to the same conflict to different standards. Both are evil but on this forum one side gets called out for it much more than the other.

 

[4bars]

Hezbollah is a pollical party that holds 15 seats in parliament so labeling them a mere terrorist group is wrong. But it's irreverent, I'm not going to hold two sides to the same conflict to different standards. Both are evil but on this forum one side gets called out for it much more than the other.

If hezbollah would kill over 10k trust me we would call them out. Not that they would not do it bc they would. Fortunately they dont have the capabilities. Meanwhile, a democratic electect goverment has the same rethotic than hezbollah AND is acting like a terrorist gtoup with free reign

Is only normal that it gets called out much more. Israel is much worse than hezbollsh because it simply can

 

[Member 21058]

If hezbollah would kill over 10k trust me we would call them out. Not that they would not do it bc they would. Fortunately they dont have the capabilities. Meanwhile, a democratic electect goverment has the same rethotic than hezbollah AND is acting like a terrorist gtoup with free reign

Is only normal that it gets called out much more. Israel is much worse than hezbollsh because it simply can

Hezbollah has been shooting rockets indiscriminately into civilian Israeli settlements for years but there were no worldwide protest or pearl clutching. But let Israel blow up few pagers and it's a war crime.

There is no moral high ground in this conflict. Neither side cares much about non-combatant deaths but only one side is criticized for it.

 

[berbatrick]

Hezbollah is a pollical party that holds 15 seats in parliament so labeling them a mere terrorist group is wrong. But it's irreverent, I'm not going to hold two sides to the same conflict to different standards. Both are evil but on this forum one side gets called out for it much more than the other.

one is getting diplomatic and military and financial support from the world's only superpower, and has kills about 100 people for every one it loses.

let's make this open - we both want parity. i want parity in how the rest of the world treats hamas/hezb and the IDF, you want parity in how people post about them. i can personally promise that if the first happens, i'll give you the second.

 

[Idxomer]

Hezbollah has been shooting rockets indiscriminately into civilian Israeli settlements for years but there were no worldwide protest or pearl clutching. But let Israel blow up few pagers and it's a war crime.

There is no moral high ground in this conflict. Neither side cares much about non-combatant deaths but only one side is criticized for it.

Or from anything you're posting here

Maybe the solution is to let them fight it out once and for all and the rest of the world take any refugees that want to leave. This nearly century old conflict needs to stop.

The Oct attacks were Israel's Pearl Harbor. At least so far, they haven't dropped two atomic bombs

 

[Member 21058]

one is getting diplomatic and military and financial support from the world's only superpower, and has kills about 100 people for every one it loses.

let's make this open - we both want parity. i want parity in how the rest of the world treats hamas/hezb and the IDF, you want parity in how people post about them. i can personally promise that if the first happens, i'll give you the second.

I want nothing but for it to end but none of us have control over that but we do have control over the ridiculous double standard on this board.

 

[Member 21058]

Or from anything you're posting here

Where is the double standard in anything I posted? Seriously what is your point 'cause I have no clue

 

[4bars]

Hezbollah has been shooting rockets indiscriminately into civilian Israeli settlements for years but there were no worldwide protest or pearl clutching. But let Israel blow up few pagers and it's a war crime.

There is no moral high ground in this conflict. Neither side cares much about non-combatant deaths but only one side is criticized for it.

Hezbollah didnt even exist when israel displaced 750.000 and killed thousands

Rethorically there is no moral high ground, what is pathetic because is a terrorist group vs a democratic state. Actions are abismal becaise Israel can put their rethoric into action and hezbollah cant

 

[AfonsoAlves]

Or from anything you're posting here

Holy shit these posts are fecking mental

 

[Member 21058]

Hezbollah didnt even exist when israel displaced 750.000 and killed thousands

Rethorically there is no moral high ground, what is pathetic because is a terrorist group vs a democratic state. Actions are abismal becaise Israel can put their rethoric into action and hezbollah cant

Morality shouldn't depend on system on government, wrong is wrong. And you can't count Hezbollah as a mere terrorist group. They hold 15 seats in parliament. And there rocket fire has displaced thousands in northern Israel so apparently they can to some degree put their rhetoric into action.

 

[Member 21058]

Holy shit these posts are fecking mental

Such a well thought out and logical rebuttal.

 

[nimic]

Apologies if this already has been posted.

Visegrad is a known misinformation source. I'm not saying none of that is happening, but I'd have to see someone credible say it to believe it.