Israel - Iran and regional players | Please post respectfully and stay on topic

The Corinthian said:
I don't think he's been personally affected - from memory he left Iran decades ago and lives in Canada now along with his family (I could have him mixed up with another poster though).

The reason I said there's a thread for it is because there is - one I've even commented on on how abhorrent it is. The specific examples of his post are literally a continuation of the fallout of the Mahsa Amini killing.

This thread in particular is centred on Israel and Iran's behaviour vis a vis Palestine and their implications for other nations in the region.

Anyway, I'm not a mod, so feel free to disregard.
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Fair enough, I can see your point of view but I do disagree. I think domestic Iranian issues have a direct influence on the Israel-Iran conflict, as they are intrinsically linked. E.g. the fact that there is such widespread dissatisfaction with the Iranian government spearheaded by Mahsa Amini is a major reason why a war with Israel is the last thing it needs (even if some hardliners are so blinkered they may want it).

I think it's an emotive issue that can easily be discussed in the context of the wider competing forces across the region. Simply disregarding it is a major reason why people can't think beyond the headlines, as Hanks post is the sort of thing that doesn't get reported on.
 
langster said:
Not surprising given Erdogan's stance on things and his support of Hamas and the Palestinians.
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Way to spin it. I am sure you would be welcomed in any pro western Israeli media to write for them.

Even great move like this has to be shown through wrong arguments.
 
Amar__ said:
Way to spin it. I am sure you would be welcomed in any pro western Israeli media to write for them.

Even great move like this has to be shown through wrong arguments.
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Sorry, it was silly o clock and I just finished a 20 hour shift. I Didn't mean it to sound so flippant or disrespectful as you're absolutely right, it is a great move. I also worded it badly with support of Hamas, I don't think he's a big supporter of Hamas, however he obviously met with them last month in an attempt to find a way to help the Palestinian people. He's also frequently been outspoken in support of Palestinians and Palestine and branded Israel a terrorist state. I just wish Western leaders and countries had the balls to do the same thing.
 
Erdogan is still as self-serving as they come. This is his first significant move regarding what's happening in Gaza in 7 months after a lot of empty platitudes.
 
Idxomer said:
Erdogan is still as self-serving as they come. This is his first significant move regarding what's happening in Gaza in 7 months after a lot of empty platitudes.
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Kaos said:
Erdogan loves an empty gesture, he'll go back to normalising relations before we know it.
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Oh I'm well aware of what he's like. He's a fecking monster, however bad men can do good deeds, even if not always for the right reasons. He's as self serving as they come, but on this occasion he's stepping up so credit where it is due. I just hope and wish that it encourages other countries to follow suit, although I doubt it, and certainly not the USA or UK now or if both countries have a change of leader and political party.
 
langster said:
Oh I'm well aware of what he's like. He's a fecking monster, however bad men can do good deeds, even if not always for the right reasons. He's as self serving as they come, but on this occasion he's stepping up so credit where it is due. I just hope and wish that it encourages other countries to follow suit, although I doubt it, and certainly not the USA or UK now or if both countries have a change of leader and political party.
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It won't have an impact unfortunately. The Saudis have decided to clamp down on dissenters boycotting culpable brands, Jordan are actively helping Israel, and the Egyptian regime remains as useless as ever. European nations outside of Ireland aren't interested, and the US is currently bullying anyone who has any intention to recognise a Palestinian state, as well as the ICC for doing their job and possibly issuing warrants for that heinous war criminal Nutty Yahoo.

Erdogan as always use anti-Israeli sentiment to temper things back home (considering Turkey is currently in dire economic straits), and will quietly regress to the norm once things have quieted down.

In short the Palestinians are on their own.
 
Kaos said:
Erdogan as always use anti-Israeli sentiment to temper things back home (considering Turkey is currently in dire economic straits), and will quietly regress to the norm once things have quieted down.
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Yeah, it's the usual thing. He's been doing this for many years - one moment he's happy to cooperate with Israel, the next he doesn't want to have anything to do with us. No real principals are in play here from his side.
 
Kaos said:
It won't have an impact unfortunately. The Saudis have decided to clamp down on dissenters boycotting culpable brands, Jordan are actively helping Israel, and the Egyptian regime remains as useless as ever. European nations outside of Ireland aren't interested, and the US is currently bullying anyone who has any intention to recognise a Palestinian state, as well as the ICC for doing their job and possibly issuing warrants for that heinous war criminal Nutty Yahoo.

Erdogan as always use anti-Israeli sentiment to temper things back home (considering Turkey is currently in dire economic straits), and will quietly regress to the norm once things have quieted down.

In short the Palestinians are on their own.
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I always interpret his Palestine positions as him throwing a bone to domestic audiences that he cares and is engaging on the issue, even though it never actually materializes into anything substantive.
 
I’ve little doubt that on a personal level Erdogan would love a full break and perhaps even confrontation with Israel. But he’s not an all-powerful dictator who can simply reverse decades of diplomatic, trade, and military links overnight or even over twenty years. The two countries have worked together closely over the years on a number issues held as core Turkish interests which transcend party politics, the most recent being their partnership in helping Azerbaijan defeat Armenia just before October 7th.
 
langster said:
Sorry, it was silly o clock and I just finished a 20 hour shift. I Didn't mean it to sound so flippant or disrespectful as you're absolutely right, it is a great move. I also worded it badly with support of Hamas, I don't think he's a big supporter of Hamas, however he obviously met with them last month in an attempt to find a way to help the Palestinian people. He's also frequently been outspoken in support of Palestinians and Palestine and branded Israel a terrorist state. I just wish Western leaders and countries had the balls to do the same thing.
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Aye, that's fair enough.
 
It probably needs a separate thread, but a helicopter carrying the Iranian president and his foreign minister was in an accident and is missing.
 


Hopefully we're past the point of them wanting to blame Israel since that would guarantee a war that they don't want.
 


It's insane that they allowed their president to fly into this weather in a helicopter.
 
I think its pretty clear now that the passengers on board are dead. The fact that there has been radio silence from his security detail is the key giveaway here as they would have ways to communicate with command that the president is safe.
 
Traub said:
@2cents does this make a difference to Iran, or is the Ayatollah the only one who matters?
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I don’t really have any special insight into the inner workings of the regime, which I’m sure will be impacted in a practical sense by this, but probably not to any degree significant enough to affect any kind of change of course. Ultimately Khamenei is the Supreme Leader and determines that course, and the question of who succeeds him (which will surely be a live issue soon enough) seems to me to be of far greater importance.
 
What a monumental failure by the Iranian security apparatus. Over 12 hours since your president went missing and you have still not nailed down the coordinates of the crash site.
 
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