This is awfully inaccurate.
Israel - Iran and regional players | Please post respectfully and stay on topic
- Thread starter Raoul
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This is awfully inaccurate.
Oh was Sinwar in the consulate?
Undoubtedly and sadly you have missed the massive irony within this post.
Has anyone on this thread or this forum said that Iran are the good guys? Why do you make these clearly untrue blanket statements?
From what I remember it was France that supplied them the chemical weapons to be specific. US supplied them with money and general ammunition in their war against Iran.
And to your question. Ofcourse if Germany supplied them with weapons they are complicit. Right now the least Germany should be worried about, in terms of being complicit in war crimes, is people going back and looking up what they supplied to Iraq. There's one going on right now that they are publicly defending their complicity in.
I was recently working for an Argentinian company and we received note that all new contracts placed were to be in Chinese yuan and no dollars/euros. This suggests they are a Chinese puppet, not American.
Saddam got into power with US support as part of the anticommunist faction within his party, but by the time of the war with Iran, he had the backing of both the US and USSR, as well as western and eastern Europe. For the chemical weapons, I think the UK and France were involved?
No one touches the US and her aliies. Who have directly armed both sides and caused wars in that region since the 80s. Israel are often merely their proxy for war. They love to pretend publically Nentanyahu is unhinged. Yet they enjoy every move he makes for their military industrial complex.
This is what's annoying me right now as well. It's a very obvious change of narrative that oh Israel isn't bad is just Netenyahu who is a nut job and who is causing this. As if their government isn't filled with similar nutjobs and previous governments haven't similarly continued their policy of ethnically cleansing the WB and Jerusalem.
It's not Nethanyahu, it's every Israeli government philosophy of taking over the whole of Palestine.
Is anyone angry at him for bringing this to their doorstep?
At this point if anyone is still supporting Israel after their genocidal campaign against the Palestinians, killing civilians, killing children, starvation and breaking every international law in the book, then their opinion is one rooted in racism and Islamophobia.
This whole conflict has revealed the inherent racism and prejudice in members of the public, government and media, whereby universal support and sympathy for Ukraine has not been repeated for Palestine.The double standards on display have been disgusting and shameful.
If the Israelis were occupied by the Palestinians for decades, who controlled their every move, slaughtered them every few years by ‘mowing the lawn,’ starved them, dehumanised them and built a wall to keep them separated, the world would have been up in arms and that apartheid system would have ended years ago.
This occupation, apartheid and genocide of the Palestinians needs to stop and Palestinian statehood needs to be recognized. The root of all tension in the Middle East related to Israel is because of the plight of the Palestinians and won’t change until they are free.
This whole conflict has revealed the inherent racism and prejudice in members of the public, government and media, whereby universal support and sympathy for Ukraine has not been repeated for Palestine.The double standards on display have been disgusting and shameful.
If the Israelis were occupied by the Palestinians for decades, who controlled their every move, slaughtered them every few years by ‘mowing the lawn,’ starved them, dehumanised them and built a wall to keep them separated, the world would have been up in arms and that apartheid system would have ended years ago.
This occupation, apartheid and genocide of the Palestinians needs to stop and Palestinian statehood needs to be recognized. The root of all tension in the Middle East related to Israel is because of the plight of the Palestinians and won’t change until they are free.
Buffels the mind to see some people here trying to present the Iranian attack as some sort of justified retaliation for the Damscus hit as if it was an isolated case.
Iran is the biggest funder of terror againts Israel, it has flooded Yemen, Syria, Lebanon and Gaza with weapons. It has trained to funded militants from the Houthi’s, Hizbala and Hamas. They hide behind their proxies because they don’t want to get their hands dirty but they can’t expect their military personnel to spread war all across the middle east, and stay protected from any consequences.
As for this night’s attack, I live in Haifa Israel, and stayed up until 3 a.m to not wake up from bomb alerts. “Thankfully”, sirens went up pretty much every in israel expect for the shore line (which includes Haifa). I believe Iran’s attack was calculated and wasnt meant to cause any real harm, certainly not to civilian infrastructure. A lot of the sirens were triggered as precaution because of interception residuals than can spread in a large radius. Hopefully our government can take a big breath, and move on. An all out war between Israel and Iran would be a devastating thing for the entire region. Down the line something must change, and Iran’s funding of militias all around the middle east must be thwarted, but war is the least effective and most devastating way to achieve that cause.
Iran is the biggest funder of terror againts Israel, it has flooded Yemen, Syria, Lebanon and Gaza with weapons. It has trained to funded militants from the Houthi’s, Hizbala and Hamas. They hide behind their proxies because they don’t want to get their hands dirty but they can’t expect their military personnel to spread war all across the middle east, and stay protected from any consequences.
As for this night’s attack, I live in Haifa Israel, and stayed up until 3 a.m to not wake up from bomb alerts. “Thankfully”, sirens went up pretty much every in israel expect for the shore line (which includes Haifa). I believe Iran’s attack was calculated and wasnt meant to cause any real harm, certainly not to civilian infrastructure. A lot of the sirens were triggered as precaution because of interception residuals than can spread in a large radius. Hopefully our government can take a big breath, and move on. An all out war between Israel and Iran would be a devastating thing for the entire region. Down the line something must change, and Iran’s funding of militias all around the middle east must be thwarted, but war is the least effective and most devastating way to achieve that cause.
It's early and obviously speculation, but I would agree with that. It seems almost like a performative attack is some ways. Iran needed to show some kind of retaliation for the consulate attack to not lose face with all the militant groups they are backing, but I also don't think they were really interested in a true escalation.
What’s your thoughts on Israel’s actions in Palestine?
So depressingly true.
It’s a bit like chicken and egg. No matter where you start to try and get a leg up in the debate of “who is to blame”, someone will always find something before it as the cause.
The truth is - Israel and Iran are just as bad as each other. And when you strip out all the conditioning of our minds by how these things are reported, we’d all find some common ground with that broadly. The issue though is how Israel is portrayed in the west, and indeed supported by the west. It’s disgustingly hypocritical and that sows animosity.
Pretty much every single statement about this attack in the media could be equally applied if you swap Israel and Iran and talk about Israel’s attack on the Iranian consulate. But you’ll never see that type of reporting for that.
The truth is - Israel and Iran are just as bad as each other. And when you strip out all the conditioning of our minds by how these things are reported, we’d all find some common ground with that broadly. The issue though is how Israel is portrayed in the west, and indeed supported by the west. It’s disgustingly hypocritical and that sows animosity.
Pretty much every single statement about this attack in the media could be equally applied if you swap Israel and Iran and talk about Israel’s attack on the Iranian consulate. But you’ll never see that type of reporting for that.
How can you compare Ukraine with the Palestine?
The Ukraine didn't threaten or attacked Russia ever. Putin ambushed and wants to annihilate the country.
Whereas the Israel Palestine conflict lasts for almost 100 years, if not longer. Both sides carry their fair share of guilt and responsibility that it hasn't been resolved yet.
It's not as black and white like in Ukraine.
Lots of chicken chat on the caf this morning.
It's rooted in psychopathy.
Have all the missiles been intercepted?
Israel says it has intercepted 99% of the missiles and Iran is saying half of them have hit their targets.
How powerful are Iran? Do they stand a chance with their military and proxies against Israel and USA if it got to that?
I know the overwhelmingly negative view everyone has on here regarding this war. We did not start it, and anyone who thinks any country can go about after an attack of the magnitute we suffered on October the 7th, is living in la la land.
I pray everyday that the war ends and that the suffering of innocent people everywhere stop. But no one in Israel, and rightfully so, will agree to keep living next to a terror organization that has proved it will stop at nothing to reek havok and kill as many of us as possible. And that to under the Iranian guidance that was mentioned above.
I believe that here a war is the worst solution here as well, and the best solution is for Hamas to surrender, free all hostages and allow for a new palestinian leadership to rise in Gaza, one that could work along side other arab nations to rehabilitate Gaza and allow this people to have a normal life. I truly and sicerely hope that this happens asap.
No. Nobody does.
No, but it will be a far bigger shitshow than the Iraq war which is why no one sensible wants to see it happening.
It depends on the victory conditions. The US could easily destroy their military but an occupation would just be another Iraq and Afghanistan. If they wanted to brutally annex them they probably could if they didnt give a shit about Iranian civilian casualties at all. But that isn't their mission so to speak.
It could be thwarted if the West were honest with their true agendas. It seems they are quite happy for proxy wars to exist in the region to fund their improvement of military hardware. Unfortunately the nations in the middle east are all trapped in their sick game.
Luckily redcafe is not representative of the Western opinion.
Israel starting this with the attack on Iran’s embassy (that many Caf posters are claiming) is completely forgetting whom Israel killed there and what they did to Israel.
Good luck telling the Caf or pretty much everyone who isn't a historically staunch Israel-supporter that 'we did not start it'.
imagine for a moment that you are not Israeli, in fact you've never been to Israel and you had to google it to see where it's on the map.
You read a dry description of The Conflict on some neutral website, let's say that Wiki is one such site. You now have a very basic grasp of the narratives of both sides.
questions should be asked:
1. who said Hamas' fight is not justifiable? how and why were they established?
2. why would they surrender? why wouldn't Israel be the one to stop their bombardments, arrests, land seizures, and all the other stuff?
3. who defines what terrorism accounts for?
and many more...
There are posts here that deem you worse than Iran, even saw some saying worse than Hitler on the other thread.
This is not the place to state that Hamas should surrender and expect people to agree with you.
But... good luck arguing this corner
hope everything keeps quiet in Haifa. I have plenty of family over there...
You pray that the suffering of innocent people everywhere stops, but do you vote that way?
oh but it is black and white. Palestinians took the Jews in after the Holocaust when they were being turned away by other countries. The Zionists then took their land by force, expelling 750,000 Palestinians in what is known as the first Nakba.
Everything that has followed has been a consequence of that.
if that had happened to you, and your land had been seized, your family murdered in front of you, you would resist too.
So yes you are correct. We should not compare Ukraine and Palestine, as the latter is one of the worst scandals of the past 150 years, where western colonial powers facilitated the atrocities we have seen against the Palestinians and continue to do so to this day.
Where else in history have the victims been dehumanised and made out to be the aggressors as has been the case with the Palestinians
a systematic dehumanisation of a whole people, because they are brown skinned and muslim. It’s as simple as that.
if this had happened to white people in Europe, the rhetoric would be very different.
This is all theatre.
Good luck telling the Caf or pretty much everyone who isn't a historically staunch Israel-supporter that 'we did not start it'.
imagine for a moment that you are not Israeli, in fact you've never been to Israel and you had to google it to see where it's on the map.
You read a dry description of The Conflict on some neutral website, let's say that Wiki is one such site. You now have a very basic grasp of the narratives of both sides.
questions should be asked:
1. who said Hamas' fight is not justifiable? how and why were they established?
2. why would they surrender? why wouldn't Israel be the one to stop their bombardments, arrests, land seizures, and all the other stuff?
3. who defines what terrorism accounts for?
and many more...
There are posts here that deem you worse than Iran, even saw some saying worse than Hitler on the other thread.
This is not the place to state that Hamas should surrender and expect people to agree with you.
But... good luck arguing this corner
hope everything keeps quiet in Haifa. I have plenty of family over there...
History has it’s weight on the situation. A lot of things could look very different had Hamas chose to focus it’s attention on military bases on that day. I served in the Gaza border, and I have friends who serve there today and obviously I would want nothing to happend to them, but theres a difference between seizing an army base and seizing an entire village, going door to door shooting at everyone in sight. Theres a difference between shooting at soldiers and shooting at fleeing people from a rave. Once Hamas done that it went out of the area of “resisting the occupying army” and into the area of terror.
Many will try to draw comparisons to the IDF’s operation in Gaza, but it’s enough to look at videos of people being allowed to leave the war zone to understand the difference. Hamas didnt let anybody leave, everyone is sight was a viable target to be shot at point blank.
I do have empathy for the people of Gaza, I hate war, I hope it ends asap. But it cannot end with Hamas on it’s feet, not if Israel has any aspirations of remaining in this region in the long run. Hamas is the weakest of our enemies, wars with Hizbala and moreso with Iran will be completely different and much more devastating. I hope that day never comes.
They essentially have two weapons against Israel: a few hundred mid-tier missiles (most of which will get intercepted) and Hezbollah whom can throw hundred thousands shit missiles at Israel.
Israel can then bomb the shit out of Iran, essentially annihilate their critical military assets.
Iran cannot be occupied though but no one on their right mind would attempt that.
The cost of Israel's defense against Iran's missile attack: "4-5 billion shekels per night".
That's around a billion dollars.
Votes in Israel don’t mean much with regards to security issues. Army generals are spread all across the political spectrum and all big parties will apply pretty much the same policies, as was shown in 2021-2022 when Bibi lost power and nothing really changed.
If you must know I voted the “Economic Freedom” party led by Abir Kara, a party which got 14,000 votes (the threshold for the Knesset is 150,000).
you didn’t start it? I beg to differ.
Please correct me if any of the below statements are not true and did not happen before October 7th:
- Zionists took Palestinian land in 1948 and displaced 750,000 people, murdering thousands.
- occupied and created an apartheid state where a wall separates Palestinians and deprives them of the same freedoms as Israelis.
- invited settlers from abroad to systematically steal land, property and kill Palestinians, which continues as we speak.
Now, who started it?
Iran have played this hand really badly. 100+ ballistic missiles really is a bit of a coming out party…..only nobody turned up (or was killed, in this specific scenario).
I think they’ve managed to extend Isreal that open invite to feck them up whilst not actually landing a blow themselves. A pretty big miscalculation
I think they’ve managed to extend Isreal that open invite to feck them up whilst not actually landing a blow themselves. A pretty big miscalculation
what does that mean?
Time to move then.