Israel is desperate to get a full scale regional war going. Bastards.
Israel - Iran and regional players | Please post respectfully and stay on topic
- Thread starter Raoul
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Probably not just them. A bunch of war mongering other nations incl its weapons manufacturing industries and merc units as well.
They won't be tried in court though. These guys got the same kind of justice they bring to the common people they terrorize.
And to answer your question, i wouldn't shed a tear for any of them.
What suggests that the US is itching for a war? They convinced Israel to halt a pre-emptive strike on Hezbollah in the aftermath of October 7th and have had talks with Iran behind the scenes on de-escalating the tensions.
They said the same after Soleimani was killed and have done nothing. Without nukes, no country has sovereignty.
I don't understand the sentiments of this thread really.
Iran has been funding every known Shia militant group in the region, irrespective of their goals, status and then steering and utilizing them to launch punitive strikes and actions against Israel and broader speaking the West.
They helped launched a coup in Yemen and defacto started the whole Yemeni crisis with Saudi Arabia, they armed Hezbollah to the teeth with hundreds of thousands (I mean that quite literally) of rockets and missiles pointed southward from Lebanon, armed all sorts of terror groups in Iraq, which ramped up significantly since the US revoked most of their security forces there. The amount of destruction and destabilization caused by these proxy groups running amok has been felt by almost every pan-arab country as wide stretching as Morocco, Tunisia, Libya and even in the reaches of Pakistan on the other side. They've helped turn two nation states into complete puppet rump states with mass poverty, starvation and extra-judiciary killings/murder.
To add on to that, the IRGC isn't even their main military, it's a rival paramilitary structure underneath Bagheri's military structure, pitting them against Artesh. They're more akin to SS than Wehrmacht, more akin to Saddam's Republican Guard than the actual Iraqi Army/Air Force. Their responsibility is to fund and enable covert operations of destabilization around the middle east region.
Israel/West in this region are no angels in any capacity, but bombing IRGC org members are legitimate targets.
People who are describing Israel/The west as "warmongering" need to think about why IRGC are in Syria and why are missile/arms shipments keep needing to be interdicted in the first place?
You cannot start smuggling arms to proxies in the region via the IRGC with the intention of using them to stow havoc and then cry foul when said smugglers/arms get intercepted and taken out.
Iran has been funding every known Shia militant group in the region, irrespective of their goals, status and then steering and utilizing them to launch punitive strikes and actions against Israel and broader speaking the West.
They helped launched a coup in Yemen and defacto started the whole Yemeni crisis with Saudi Arabia, they armed Hezbollah to the teeth with hundreds of thousands (I mean that quite literally) of rockets and missiles pointed southward from Lebanon, armed all sorts of terror groups in Iraq, which ramped up significantly since the US revoked most of their security forces there. The amount of destruction and destabilization caused by these proxy groups running amok has been felt by almost every pan-arab country as wide stretching as Morocco, Tunisia, Libya and even in the reaches of Pakistan on the other side. They've helped turn two nation states into complete puppet rump states with mass poverty, starvation and extra-judiciary killings/murder.
To add on to that, the IRGC isn't even their main military, it's a rival paramilitary structure underneath Bagheri's military structure, pitting them against Artesh. They're more akin to SS than Wehrmacht, more akin to Saddam's Republican Guard than the actual Iraqi Army/Air Force. Their responsibility is to fund and enable covert operations of destabilization around the middle east region.
Israel/West in this region are no angels in any capacity, but bombing IRGC org members are legitimate targets.
People who are describing Israel/The west as "warmongering" need to think about why IRGC are in Syria and why are missile/arms shipments keep needing to be interdicted in the first place?
You cannot start smuggling arms to proxies in the region via the IRGC with the intention of using them to stow havoc and then cry foul when said smugglers/arms get intercepted and taken out.
This is a very bizarre world-view.
If you look a rank of most richest countries with the highest living standards, most of them do not have nukes.
Most of Europe, MENA and the richest East Asian Countries (on a per capita basis) do not have Nuclear Weapons.
In addition to this, Iran and Israel have been at war for quite a while now. Not a hot war, but certainly a clandestine one by way of Iran's three regional proxies and Israel by way of the Mossad hitting Iranian nuclear sites, either militarily or by way of cyber attacks. This latest attack is just the tip of a much broader iceberg between the two nations.
Oh okay, can't argue with that then. Fair play if you hold both to the same standards.
Argument for a different thread but all of this may change in the next decades. If US credibility keeps falling, the likes of South Korea and Japan may decide that they need to go nuclear.
1. they are under the nuke umbrella of the US
2. they have a narrow range of foreign policy options.
those 2 facts aren't unrelated
e - you can contrast libya vs north korea for what happens when you do or don't have a deterrent (in NK's case, the nukes are one thing, but the millions of artillery pieces at Seoul also count). Of course, Saddam before that. What Israel and the US can do to Iran now. Why Russia could enter non-NATO Ukraine and Georgia, but doesn't touch the Baltics.
If the US embassy in London was bombed to kill a US general involved in arms supplies to Israel, what would your reaction be?
I wasn't specifically referring to the US.
They neither helped to launch the coup in Yemen, nor did they start the war with Saudi Arabia.
So many people have this cartoonish view where individual groups have no agency or local grievances whatsoever and are perceived only in the context of whatever political group that individual is against.
The Iranian regime are complete scum.
This of course wasn't a strike at a weapons depot though but a strike that destroyed a consular building, of a sovereign nation, in another sovereign nation.
Sad thing is that I don't think Israel really care about this at all. The main country affected by it all is Egypt.
Hasn’t Sudan also been badly impacted, especially in the midst of its own awful war?
I haven’t been following but I thought there was a tweet posted in this thread a while back along those lines.
Oh but they did.
Houthi's have existed for a *long* time. They were mostly irrelevant for the majority of that time period, about as effective as some rag-tag right-wing mountain LARPing South Americans in Bolivia.
Suddenly, in 2014, they had ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, APCs and a magazine depth that surpassed the Yemeni governments at the time?
In 2008 a paper for published by a US think tank that played down Houthi's.
In 2009, the same paper released a new article stating that Houthi's suddenly got strong and nobody knew how.
In 2013, a different think that publicized that the Houthi's in the preceeding 4 years were 'orders of magnitude' stronger than they were.
It doesn't take a genius to work out where the houthi's got their material.
This is a false analogy. UK is not a failed state embroiled in civil war with the country falling to various proxy factions - nor is a US general the same as an IRGC commander.
This would be the equivalent of a CIA senior operator being bombed in an embassy in Tobruk.
In which case:
you understand the rules of the game, you were the one caught with your pants down. No sympathy to the CIA operator.This is a false analogy. UK is not a failed state embroiled in civil war with the country falling to various proxy factions - nor is a US general the same as an IRGC commander.
This would be the equivalent of a CIA senior operator being bombed in an embassy in Tobruk.
In which case:
The failed state and various factions have nothing to do with this. They were attacked directly by an external country.
And going back through this list, it's hard to find examples of a state doing something like this without any proxy or anything. There's Iran in 1979 of course, an event which changed ME politics forever. The US apologised for hitting the Chinese embassy in Serbia. All the rest are terrorists or mobs.
That’s true, although it’s quite reasonable to assume that Iran had a heavy hand in Imad Mughniyeh’s 1992 Buenos Aires attack and another failed attack on the Israeli embassy in Bangkok in 1994.
So, it's not different this time.
So much ignorance in this post, I do not want to start a discussion because I do not have the energy to it.
If you're going to be aggressive and label me ignorant maybe you can actually back it up?
Otherwise, kindly refrain from these kind of posts
The failed state and factions part is relevant because let's say, err, sovereign nations tend to be a bit more "open handed" and "liberal", (note the emphasis on quotation marks), when it comes to these kinds of nations.
You are right though, what Israel did here is unorthodox to say the very least and quite possibly one of those things which is 'if you're going to do it please be discrete'. However unorthodox it may be, I shall not weep for an IRGC Officer being bombed.
If you're going to be aggressive and label me ignorant maybe you can actually back it up?
Otherwise, kindly refrain from these kind of posts
I did not say you are ignorant. I said the post contain much ignorance. Where do you want me to start?
And this is coming from someone known as opposing Iranian influence in the region (you can check my posts in the Iraqi October youth mass protests).
Lets start with the most obvious line,
https://legal.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_1_1961.pdf
Here is a PDF file you can read about how diplomatic missions are protected under international law under the Vienna convention.
You are confusing here the Arab spring with the war with the Saudi Yemeni war, Shias in Yemen has been prosecuted and lived under inhumane circumstances for the most part of their lives under the dictatorship of Ali Abdullah Saleh, It was natural that they will rise against him. Irans influence had zero thing to do with them hating the dictator that put them in poverty and discrimination for decades on the base of sectarianism. The war with the Saudis and the funding of Houthis after that is a whole new chapter to their history.
About Hizbullah, Israel is funded and militarised by the USA, Germany and the UK to the teeth with their genocidal war in Gaza, are theses states also terrorist organizations? Are their embassies legitimate targets? Do you see what's wrong with your post?
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I wasn’t focused on the legality side but on the “is this justified” aspect
Not surprised, US is a terrorist country after all.
It's illegal, thus not justified.
I am not.
houthis has been around for decades and decades and have been mostly in the sidelines. Pure coincidence that by early 2010s they suddenly find themselves with Iranian made ballistic missiles, cruise missiles and small arms?
without Iranian support, houthis wouldn’t have even been close to taking the capital in 2014
Hezbollah is not a recognised state nor a legitimate political entity.
They run south Lebanon the same way the cartels run part of Mexico. A fallout from a failed Beirut.
US and UK selling arms to Israel and donating arms to Israel, a UN registered nation with a (semi) functional democracy is so many degrees different than giving some splinter paramilitary in a failed state that existed in the first place to fight Israel
One of the key players in trying to organize the destruction of your country has been found in plain site and you can’t do anything about it because it’s…illegal?
Nation states have never behaved in this way based entirely on what is legal and what is not.
I get the sentiment but it's far more complicated than that isn't it. If we start measuring countries just by buying and selling weapons from other countries - Israel in this case - we can blame a lot of other countries - like an India to name another. We just know a lot more about what the US does because of the exposure given to it.
They have existed for a *long* time. Much of the initial period of time, as far as I'm aware, they were a purely religious group, as opposed to political or military.
This changed as time went on, in response to both local and regional events.
Which think tank exactly are you basing this on? Particularly as American defence politicians have stated that Iranian influence over the Houthis is greatly exaggerated?
The houthis were fighting the government as early as the early 2000s and were winning some victories and controlling some land from even back then, despite the involvement of the Saudis, who of course perceive any contrarian Shia activity near them as impossible to tolerate. This increased in the chaos following the Arab Spring revolutions.
Nobody has denied that the houthis receive some support and weapons from Iran.
As to your other point, yes I (and I imagine most reasonable people) would condemn a similar attack on a CIA operative in Tobruk? Surprised you think most people would just consider it part of the game, especially if the country undertaking the strike is another sovereign country.
What you are suggesting is a simple buyer-seller relationship. But that is not true when it comes to arms deals, right?
US, in this case, would very well know what the buyer intends to use it for.
Edit: Not that I agree with the poster you quoted.
Yeah that's exactly my point. There is no holier than thou in a lot of this. Every major weapons manufacturer and buyer is in on the gig to either indirectly or directly support the destruction of human lives somewhere. I agree with you the US knows just as well where it goes, just like India knows where the money goes they give to Israel to buy from them.