Even the number related to direct killings is underestimated. After Israel completely destroyed the health system in Gaza, health authorities don't have the infrastructure anymore to get an accurate picture of all the deaths.
Israel - Iran and regional players | Please post respectfully and stay on topic
- Thread starter Raoul
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I don't think the US gives one shit. It's a carefully choreographed genocide, and Biden is fully on board.
Mossad’s pager operation: Inside Israel’s penetration of Hezbollah
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/10/05/israel-mossad-hezbollah-pagers-nasrallah/
Of course we should look at mortality rate. However, the paper in question which decided to multiply the kill rates by 5, based that on very long low-intensity wars (Darfur etc), where the war in question is more similar to short high intensity wars.
For example, Kosovo war, which is more similar to Gaza war rather than the Darfur, had basically no excess deaths, and while the Gaza war is far more intensified and ugly, so there are likely many excess deaths, it also likely is not like in wars which lasted for a decade, so I think their/your numbers are way off.
I know your post is logical instead of emotional but a fundamental problem of casualty and other reportage in this ongoing conflict is that we are receiving data from Hamas and Hezbollah sources as well as aid agencies, the UN etc. These two sources are well learned in the art of propaganda including Hamas` persistent refusal over the years to admit the huge amount of foreign aid used for tunnels and weapons to name only two instead of the purposes for which foreign sources including western governments and western charities originally gave it.
Except the Hamas numbers were verified by the Israelis themselves, and the Lebanon figures come from the Lebanese health authority.
50-100k either murdered or maimed is the most official count I can find. Pushes it to 5% direct of the entire population with the entire population itself adding hundreds of thousands more in the way of more "minor" wounds and scars. It's madness. It would be called genocide if it were not Israel (under the protection of a Western press).
You know your post contains more propaganda than any declared number of murdered Lebanese people or Palestinians, right?
Definitely agree with this post, especially the bolded bit and there's no reason for anyone to be badly misinformed now.
Also worth noting that the Lancet isn't the only reputable organization that believes the deaths are closer to 200k than the official number.
Unfortunately that guy in the clip seems to be quite out there with his views, like alleging that Israel created the coronavirus as a biological weapon against Iran. So make of that what you will...
Sorry, I don`t buy the good guy Hamas and Hezbollah champions of the Palestinian/Arabic people narrative versus the evil Israel/Jewish one especially given some of the vile, self documented practices of the Hamas regime in Gaza which was voted into power including public hangings from cranes which do nothing to educate people in western countries on why the Palestinian people deserve their own homeland. Yes, outside aid from well meaning western sources has been transferred to military purposes.
There are many reasons for this current conflict and one of them is decades of lost opportunities for both sides to come to agreement and the very real failed regimes and leadership in the ME. The kinds of authoritarian/theocratic/abusive regimes with shameful human rights records advocating for the Palestinians over the decades is a key reason why their right to their own homeland hasn`t gained the traction it should have in the west.
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Ah, you are one of those.
Nonsensical but also has nothing to do with what we're discussing but continue please, seems like you have several talking points which has to be typed out regardless of anything else.
They deserve their own homeland because it is their homeland. End of story.
Yeah, but the sunni minister is one of the leaders in Hezbollah. It doesn't matter either that Lebanon has one of the most inclusive governments in the world, they are still all Hezbollah.
You do know Lebanon have a health ministry?
You do know Lebanon have a health ministr
No, you`re the one who accused me of having propaganda in a reply I made to another poster.
And geopolitical realities mean that for Jewish people it is also their homeland and Palestinians and their supporters are not demanding co-existence - From the river to the sea etc. Jewish people whose ancestors lived there since ancient times are rightly calling it their homeland too just the way Palestinians whose ancestors lived there since ancient times are. All the hatred of what Israel is doing doesn`t change those basic facts.
Ah, you don`t have the intellectual honesty or equipment to participate in discussions that don`t revolve around the narrative that there is only one side and why aren`t people in the west supporting the Palestinians because there`s only one side, and those regimes and organisations that support them are shining examples of resistance.
None of what you said changes their right to a sovereign country. Nor were the Jewish settlers, who committed an ethnic cleansing in 1948 and have settled under a philosophy of military dominance and separation - interested in co-existence. The only morality here is strength, and the Jewish settlers were stronger than the Arab natives.
e - unless you think that by starting off with an ethnic cleansing, israel has lost its "right to exist"?
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Doubting the number of deaths in either Gaza or Lebanon is propaganda and in the case of the former make you sound like genocide apologist. I'm giving you the benefit of doubt that isn't your intention but you should inform yourself and do better.
These arguments have been made and discussed many times in the thousands and thousands of posts and hundreds of pages of Israel/Palestine discussion that have transpired here in the last year, let alone in the many years before. It's not really a novel insight or unrefuted point that will sway anyone.
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Not trying to downplay the scale of the death here but since this number is being widely cited, for the sake of accuracy it's worth saying it wasn't a peer reviewed paper, or a report, it was a letter. I don't know if the 5x multiplier is bad scholarship, but there is a review of that number here which looks at the assumptions behind it.
I do not have the time nor the energy to discuss these pretty basic points that we already done hundreds of times in the other thread.
Both the infant stunting in gaza and this will cause severe mental and physical defects for this generation and the next. Israel is making itself biologically superior to its enemies - now doubt an argument in the coming decades will be if people with low IQs can handle a sovereign state.
Touche
He doesn't explicitly agree to a pre-emptive strike though? It's the usual stuff about Israel having a right to defend itself and there being consequences for Iran's behavior.
Damn son, that's on the nose.