Israel - Iran and regional players | Please post respectfully and stay on topic

[Raoul]

The straits of hormuz will be in flames if this escalates (if any serious attempt is made). Sabre rattling by nations which have nothing directly to lose. Unless these fecking clowns want an actual second front to an already out-of-hand war, which will be disastrous, I have no idea what their rhetoric is about (barring that they've backed themselves into this corner by historical approaches).

It’s pretty clear what is going on here. Netanyahu, sensing a rare opportunity to finally strike at Iranian nuclear program sites, is attempting to use the Iranian attack as a pretext to respond with an attack on the Iranian nuke program. There’s a narrow window for him to do it after this attack so I would expect an Israeli response fairly soon.

We are already seeing the Sabre rattling on American tv to justify immediately hitting the nuke program and energy facilities.

 

[Member 21058]

It’s pretty clear what is going on here. Netanyahu, sensing a rare opportunity to finally strike at Iranian nuclear program sites, is attempting to use the Iranian attack as a pretext to respond with an attack on the Iranian nuke program. There’s a narrow window for him to do it after this attack so I would expect an Israeli response fairly soon.

We are already seeing the Sabre rattling on American tv to justify immediately hitting the nuke program and energy facilities.

Think he'll go as far as to assassinate the ayatollah?

 

[RedDevil@84]

Question.. in the US, are the democrats more pro Israel (likely to join any potential war) or the republicans? or are the both the same?

Same.

 

[Raoul]

Think he'll go as far as to assassinate the ayatollah?

Easily. If I were Khamenei, I would remain in indefinite hiding since it’s become pretty clear the Mossad have deeply infiltrated the IRGC, just as they did the inner sanctum of Hezbollah to get to Nasrullah.

 

[neverdie]

It’s pretty clear what is going on here. Netanyahu, sensing a rare opportunity to finally strike at Iranian nuclear program sites, is attempting to use the Iranian attack as a pretext to respond with an attack on the Iranian nuke program. There’s a narrow window for him to do it after this attack so I would expect an Israeli response fairly soon.

We are already seeing the Sabre rattling on American tv to justify immediately hitting the nuke program and energy facilities.

You could be right. If he does hit those sites, though, I don't see how a war is avoided. They have gone to great lengths after stuxnet and other campaigns to insulate their nuclear programs. It would take American support, imo, to demolish them. If that happens, the region goes up in flames (or more up in flames than it already is).

 

[AfonsoAlves]

A fecking former US brigadier General is on BBC news talking about how US destroyer supported Iron Dome.

How on earth is a genuine high ranked officer of the US Military talking shit like this?

This really makes me question the competency of the High ranked brass of the Pentagon.

 

[2mufc0]

It's gone beyond parody at this point. Most western countries have lost so much credibility over this blind support for Israel.

 

[hp88]

This actually makes me a bit sad on the inside knowing these idiots represent us on the international stage, no talk of ceasefire or finding a resolution, just straight up approval of bombing the shit of innocent parties.

 

[4bars]

Actually Cuba is a great example of why unilateral politics sucks - US embargo on it makes 0 sense in any capacity and honestly, they need to pivot from that position. (Just not with stupid UN mandates on it which is silly).

However, you cannot apply Cold War politics to Israel-Iran. There was a lot of political paranoia after the Cuban Missile Crisis, what threat did Israel pose to Iran during the Shah-years?

Cuba was anti-US during the late 50's and 60's because it genuinely had no choice. US were hellbent on toppling the new "Communist" regime.

Iran did not have that same political pressure - Israel were more than happy to deal with the new Iranian regime the same way they dealt with the Shah.

Oh, I hope it didn't sound that Iran is in the right. But we are here now as we are here now with Israel. If Israel would not exist we would not have this issues now (maybe others), but Israel exist and is going to stay and Iran exist the way it exist and you have to deal with both.

I am of the opinion that negotation is better than confrontation, though sometimes there is no other option than confrontation. Other times, you might want to try open a tiny way, even if it is not fair like you point out, but potentially might open a bigger path, and certainly, Iran not going nuclear was a great option. Also, maybe with those treaties in place, Iran would not be so open with helping Russia against Ukraine

Who knows who knows, but certainly the current path is not the one that I see is the best one

 

[Raoul]

A fecking former US brigadier General is on BBC news talking about how US destroyer supported Iron Dome.

How on earth is a genuine high ranked officer of the US Military talking shit like this?

This really makes me question the competency of the High ranked brass of the Pentagon.

Who is the general ?

 

[AfonsoAlves]

Who is the general ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Tata

He says a bunch of shite but it's really alarming a US Army General doesn't understand the differences between SHORAD and theatre air defense.

 

[dumbo]

Starmer is such a disgusting freak.

 

[RedSky]

Unprovoked attack.

 

[Raoul]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Tata

He says a bunch of shite but it's really alarming a US Army General doesn't understand the differences between SHORAD and theatre air defense.

Yeah, he’s a right winger. Best to ignore.

 

[Giggsyking]

 

[E-mal]

I hate Britain so damn much.

Why? We(and am an immigrant living and working here) just doing what we need to survive. We have no influence or clout to reign in on Israel anyway. We just stamp what America say or do

 

[Redplane]

Why? We(and am an immigrant living and working here) just doing what we need to survive. We have no influence or clout to reign in on Israel anyway. We just stamp what America say or do

Nah that's way too easy. England doesn't just get a pass for hiding behind the US. For that it has too much history and too much economic and military might of its own. ESPECIALLY bc of the history it has with Israel and that region in general.

 

[E-mal]

Oh Putin would love that... Feck, is that the entire plan?

We Nigerians won’t complain, more money for our oil even though it will amount to nothing.

In any case, let’s hope this ends well for everyone and it is de-escalated

 

[Kaos]

UK definitely shares a bulk of the blame and responsibility. Their arbitrary drawing of borders in the middle east, shafting half a dozen different ethnic groups, and then proceeding to play lapdog for the US and the Israelis as they wreck havoc over the last 50 years or so.

 

[dumbo]

Why? We(and am an immigrant living and working here) just doing what we need to survive. We have no influence or clout to reign in on Israel anyway. We just stamp what America say or do

Maybe, but why do these freaks make us look so eager and craven when licking the dog shit from Netty's jackboot?

 

[T00lsh3d]

A lot the missiles landed, but I'm not seeing any confirmation of anything significant being hit, just speculation about two airfields as a lot of impacts were in the vicinity. Wait and see.

'Iron Dome' is the thing that protects against small rockets, so irrelevant to this kind of attack, that's why the military nerd gave you a weird response We dunno yet if their other AD systems are crap against ballistic missiles, or if they let them land cos they did the math and calculated they weren't hitting anything.

Thank you - I do try to point out my ignorance on topics I’m not familiar with

Sorry, not your fault.

Everyone has been banging on about Iron Dome today when it's wholly irrelevant to medium/long range ballistic missile attacks.

I worked all day, took boy to rugby, went to gym, picked boy up from rugby, cooked tea, played with new 2-month old puppy - collapsed into bed…..then saw all this shit going off.

I don’t know my iron domes from my piles and crohn’s

 

[LARulz]

Question.. in the US, are the democrats more pro Israel (likely to join any potential war) or the republicans? or are the both the same?

I am also a bit confused by this as sometimes I'm not 100% sure. I feel as a party they are the same but my sense is (probably wrongly) that Trump will huff and puff but stay away from it as much as possible to avoid sending troops and it being another war they are involved in directly. Made such a song and dance about Afghanistan etc. I can't see him then doing it unless absolutely forced. His voters will do whatever he says

 

[Real Name]

Lots of photos inside of Israel. People covering for safety and so on. We wont see photos from Gaza though, people dying there is just a number, but poor people in Israel had to go to shelters for few hours..

One school has been hit, apparently Mossad headquarters was inside.

I see Macron has changed his stance too, from condemning attacks on Lebanon to doing everything to stop Teheran.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Question.. in the US, are the democrats more pro Israel (likely to join any potential war) or the republicans? or are the both the same?

The Democrats have a broader range of positions on Israel in their ranks, whereas the Republicans are pretty much universally pro-Israel. However, Biden in particular is a huge Zionist, so that has impacted how this last year has unfolded.

In terms of joining a war, I’d say both sides know another Middle East war with direct US involvement is politically toxic. Both will provide weapons and engage in shooting down missiles and such, but neither would put boots on the ground. Just my guess of course.

 

[hp88]

Why? We(and am an immigrant living and working here) just doing what we need to survive. We have no influence or clout to reign in on Israel anyway. We just stamp what America say or do

That kind of answers your own question though, we’re forever Americas lapdog and get dragged into whatever shit they get into.

 

[Real Name]

That's a sorry state for a country which was a world power in the past.

 

[Nogbadthebad]

That kind of answers your own question though, we’re forever Americas lapdog and get dragged into whatever shit they get into.

Its not about being an American lapdog, we are our very own corrupt country with politicians bought and paid for.

Every single candidate for the labour leadership in 2020 sat on a stage and declared themselves zionists. The most senior political editor in the country, robert peston, asked them if they would. They were all members of labour friends of israel, bar one.

That is why you see the quote from starmer around 'I support zionism without qualification'. He said it in response to peston.

Every candiate in the current tory leadership election is a member of conservative friends of israel.

If every possible leader of the country was in a group called friends of russia, or even friends of germany, there would be lots of questions. This is just normal apparently.

 

[hasanejaz88]

As much as I hate what Israel is now, don't feel any joy in watching those videos. It's missiles that were going into civilian population, as well as military. The conflict is only going to get worse and potentially add Iran's civilians population into danger now as well.

It's depressing already that the world order is so corrupt that they are continuing to let Israel do what they want but now Israel will get more confident to attack Iran, like they've been wanting to do for decades.

 

[Smores]

Surely we need to wait for an Iranian investigation before the UK and US can comment on the activity? No?

 

[flameinthesun]

UK definitely shares a bulk of the blame and responsibility. Their arbitrary drawing of borders in the middle east, shafting half a dozen different ethnic groups, and then proceeding to play lapdog for the US and the Israelis as they wreck havoc over the last 50 years or so.

Whilst I'm by no means learned in this area what you wrote was what stood out to me when doing a bit of reading on the history of this. The UK has a lot of responsibility for what has happened over the decades but would never hold their hands up.

 

[MDFC Manager]

IYKYK @berbatrick @RedDevil@84 @prateik @pratyush_utd

 

[Raven]

As much as I hate what Israel is now, don't feel any joy in watching those videos. It's missiles that were going into civilian population, as well as military. The conflict is only going to get worse and potentially add Iran's civilians population into danger now as well.

It's depressing already that the world order is so corrupt that they are continuing to let Israel do what they want but now Israel will get more confident to attack Iran, like they've been wanting to do for decades.

They only targeted military sites and killed only 1 civilian because of a missile that was intercepted.

 

[AdamColeBebe]

Yeah, he’s a right winger. Best to ignore.

Is he better than Antony? Beggars can't be choosers at the moment

 

[Smores]

They only targeted military sites and killed only 1 civilian because of a missile that was intercepted.

Whilst Israel bombed a school in Gaza and killed families. Not to mention all the other bombings.

Israel could have killed a thousand small children yesterday and the western media outrage would still be focused on Iran's attack.

 

[2mufc0]

Why? We(and am an immigrant living and working here) just doing what we need to survive. We have no influence or clout to reign in on Israel anyway. We just stamp what America say or do

Whilst this is mostly true , why does Starmer need to get on his soapbox and make a grand statement about it? Just sit down and be quiet like the NPC Britain has become under the American empire.

I see Macron has changed his stance too, from condemning attacks on Lebanon to doing everything to stop Teheran.

Like the rest of the countries subservient to America you have to sit back and get back into line eventually. None of these so called major countries have an agency when it comes to foreign policy, they are essentially an extension of America and in the old world be defined as Colonies/vassal states.

 

[Raven]

Whilst Israel bombed a school in Gaza and killed families. Not to mention all the other bombings.

Israel could have killed a thousand small children yesterday and the western media outrage would still be focused on Iran's attack.

It's disgusting and to see posters on here comparing the slaughter that Israel is responsible for is terrible.

 

[Laurencio]

UK definitely shares a bulk of the blame and responsibility. Their arbitrary drawing of borders in the middle east, shafting half a dozen different ethnic groups, and then proceeding to play lapdog for the US and the Israelis as they wreck havoc over the last 50 years or so.

Britain did tell the UN their plan was dead on arrival though. They were pretty clear about not wanting a role in enforcing the partition, refused shared administration with the UN to facilitate it and basically withdrew throwing their hands in the air.

It wasn't until the late 90s, early 2000s that the UK went pro Israel. Until then the relationship between the UK and Israel could be described as swinging from lukewarm at best, to openly hostile at worst.

 

[Adisa]

US foreign policy exists in an alternate universe. No one outside the United States belives this shit.

 

[Nogbadthebad]

It wasn't until the late 90s, early 2000s that the UK went pro Israel. Until then the relationship between the UK and Israel could be described as swinging from lukewarm at best, to openly hostile at worst.

There is a good reason for that animosity. The King David Hotel bombing killed a couple of dozen British soldiers, and later the same group kidnapped, tortured and publicly hung British peacekeepers in the region.

The man who ran that terrorist group, menachen Begin, went on to become the israeli Prime Minister. He was also the founder of the Likud party, the same party netenyahu now leads.

 

[2mufc0]

US foreign policy exists in an alternate universe. No one outside the United States belives this shit.

You'd be surprised there are plenty of people outside the US down with the neo-liberal agenda and on that freedom/democracy kool aid.