Isn't the FA Cup draw rule a little STUPID?

would you be moaning if you had drawn a non league side? ;)
 
Yes I would. I am talking from an objective point of view, not being a Man Utd fan: it's ridicolous that two major Premierships clubs collide so early, while some irrelevant 4th division team advances to the 4th round. Is it sport? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
 
No, because it adds a little spice to things. I hate seeded competitions, why should some be given priority over others? Why should every team not have the same chance? And after all, if you want to win the thing, you are going to have to beat the best teams at sometime anyway.
 
Originally posted by Piersifal:
<strong>I see your point, WeasteDevil, but maybe letting the little teams play against one another before entering a 16 major seeded teams draw would be a way to preserve spice AND true technical level. Imho.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So you're saying that the big teams should come in at round 4 or 5 then instead of round 3? It's round 3 isn't it - can't remember!
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Originally posted by Piersifal:
<strong>Just wondering, but wouldn't it be more intelligent and sportsmanslike to use a system like tennis tournaments, with seeded teams, to avoid what happened to Man Utd. and Villa?
Please, don't come up with the "tradition rules"! ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

This is one reason that PL teams don't come into the competition until the 3rd round. Also, it's one thing that a lot of the small clubs in the lower divisions look forward to. They fight tooth and nail to get into the third round so that they can get a competitive game against United, Pool, Arse, etc.

'It's what makes the FA Cup so special!' ;)
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Originally posted by Piersifal:
<strong>I see your point, WeasteDevil, but maybe letting the little teams play against one another before entering a 16 major seeded teams draw would be a way to preserve spice AND true technical level. Imho.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Don't agree with you. My 'local' team Bohemians in Dublin, having won the League in Ireland last year got 'seeded' in the CL this season so that they drew Levadia Marduu (Estonia) in the first qualifying round, out of three. In the next round they drew Halmstadt and were roundly beaten 4-1 on aggregate. Out of competition!

There is an argument that if you win your National League, you shouldn't have to qualify for the Champions League, especially when someone who comes fourth in their league in Italy, England, Spain can qualify for the CL after playing in ONE preliminary round.

The rich get richer the poor get poorer. The point I am making is that teams who reaach a certain criteria, i.e. get into the third round, have every right to play against the 'big'teams if the draw is good to them.
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Originally posted by Piersifal:
<strong>Yeah, I'd go for round 5, for the sake of the sport.</strong><hr></blockquote>

what does making it safer and easier for the big clubs have to do with any possible interpretation of the word "sport"?
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Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>No, because it adds a little spice to things. I hate seeded competitions, why should some be given priority over others? Why should every team not have the same chance? And after all, if you want to win the thing, you are going to have to beat the best teams at sometime anyway.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Seedings in the FA Cup fourth round but no seedings in the Worthington Cup - that would make it interesting.
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Originally posted by BHManUNut:
<strong>

This is one reason that PL teams don't come into the competition until the 3rd round. Also, it's one thing that a lot of the small clubs in the lower divisions look forward to. They fight tooth and nail to get into the third round so that they can get a competitive game against United, Pool, Arse, etc.

'It's what makes the FA Cup so special!' ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

Nothing more needs to be said on this topic IMO.

Although I'll just point out that results such as Bournemouth 2 United 0 back in the 80's is a reason why seeding should never happen. Disaster for us, but think what such a result does for the lower league team, and by the way, the lower league teams win quite often against 'Superior' opposition. Remember Wycombe Wanderers last year? They went to the Semis before being totally outclassed by a bunch of scousers ;)
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Lads, I understand your point regarding the chance for little clubs to challenge a big team. I didn't mean I dislike this, on the contrary, but I still feel that seeing Man Utd or Villa out and Alexandra Crewe in isn't a victory for "sport" but for "yawn".
Ok, deal done, let's make it a 4 round-clash! ;)
 
Originally posted by Piersifal:
<strong>Just wondering, but wouldn't it be more intelligent and sportsmanslike to use a system like tennis tournaments, with seeded teams, to avoid what happened to Man Utd. and Villa?
Please, don't come up with the "tradition rules"! ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>
What, and miss out on years like '99? No thanks.

Maybe I would advocate putting the 20 prem teams in one pot and the other 44 teams in the other pot for the 3rd round. Then at least a lower div team is ensured of a Prem team thus reaping the financial rewards.


Naaaah, feck it, leave it as is ;)
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Originally posted by Piersifal:
<strong>Lads, I understand your point regarding the chance for little clubs to challenge a big team. I didn't mean I dislike this, on the contrary, but I still feel that seeing Man Utd or Villa out and Alexandra Crewe in isn't a victory for "sport" but for "yawn".
Ok, deal done, let's make it a 4 round-clash! ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>
Surely Crewe in and United/Villa out is a victory for sport. Sport does not just revolve around the big wealthy clubs. Sport is about competing not just winning, it's about having a bit of luck along the way, it's about having your moment of glory.
Otherwise scrap the nationwide league and just have an 8 team EPL. in fact scrap the EPL and just have a Euro league.
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Originally posted by ManUinOz:
<strong>
Surely Crewe in and United/Villa out is a victory for sport. Sport does not just revolve around the big wealthy clubs. Sport is about competing not just winning, it's about having a bit of luck along the way, it's about having your moment of glory.
Otherwise scrap the nationwide league and just have an 8 team EPL. in fact scrap the EPL and just have a Euro league.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hi Oz,
have you ever seen Crewe play? Is that "decent" footie? No offense intended, but football is also a spectacle for viewers. I still doubt that the fairy tale of 11 clumsy players making their way through FA cup is an interesting tale, from a viewer's point of view. It is a cool thing for the supporters, but you'll be sleeping the whole match, maybe.
:D
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Originally posted by Piersifal:
<strong>
Hi Oz,
have you ever seen Crewe play? Is that "decent" footie? No offense intended, but football is also a spectacle for viewers. I still doubt that the fairy tale of 11 clumsy players making their way through FA cup is an interesting tale, from a viewer's point of view. It is a cool thing for the supporters, but you'll be sleeping the whole match, maybe.
:D </strong><hr></blockquote>

No offense, but that's a load of bollox. I never have so much fun as a 'neutral' football fan as when I watch 'giant-killings' in the FA Cup.

'Sport' is about competition, surprises and excitement. Not predicable showings were the favourite always wins. That's a 'yawn' to me.
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Originally posted by Piersifal:
<strong>

Hi Oz,
have you ever seen Crewe play? Is that "decent" footie? No offense intended, but football is also a spectacle for viewers. I still doubt that the fairy tale of 11 clumsy players making their way through FA cup is an interesting tale, from a viewer's point of view. It is a cool thing for the supporters, but you'll be sleeping the whole match, maybe.
:D </strong><hr></blockquote>

Football isn't theatre mate, although united have tried their level best to make it as entertaining a spectacle as is humanly possible. Liverpool on the other hand............ ;)
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Originally posted by ManUinOz:
<strong>
Otherwise scrap the nationwide league and just have an 8 team EPL. </strong><hr></blockquote>

of course, you'd have to finish top 8 this season to qualify

;)
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Originally posted by Divine:
<strong>


No offense, but that's a load of bollox. I never have so much fun as a 'neutral' football fan as when I watch 'giant-killings' in the FA Cup.


'Sport' is about competition, surprises and excitement. Not predicable showings were the favourite always wins. That's a 'yawn' to me.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Thanx for the Divine intervention, he hehe :D , but we are talking about two different issues: you speak about the thrill of seeing, say, United kicked out by Crewe, with scarce possibilities of this happening. I speak of the trial I'd have to face, because my jaws would sue me for watching Tranmere playing in the 4th round instead of United... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
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Piersifal:

Unfortunately, you sound like a television executive worrying about ratings--wanting the "big" teams to stay in the competition as long as possible and making it virtually impossible for a smaller side to sneak through to the round of 16 on a favorable draw. If United or Villa is going to win the Cup, they need to be able to beat whoever shows up, where ever the match is played. Trying to postpone such matches as long as possible merely asserts a desire to make upsets and advancement by a "Cinderella" team virtually impossible. If that's the goal, scrap the competition and just have a made-for-TV roundrobin tournament of the top 8 teams. If not--let the tournament continue as it has for over 100 years. Hell, if it ain't broke, don't break it!
 
Originally posted by FresnoBob:
<strong>Piersifal:


Unfortunately, you sound like a television executive worrying about ratings--wanting the "big" teams to stay in the competition as long as possible and making it virtually impossible for a smaller side to sneak through to the round of 16 on a favorable draw. If United or Villa is going to win the Cup, they need to be able to beat whoever shows up, where ever the match is played. Trying to postpone such matches as long as possible merely asserts a desire to make upsets and advancement by a "Cinderella" team virtually impossible. If that's the goal, scrap the competition and just have a made-for-TV roundrobin tournament of the top 8 teams. If not--let the tournament continue as it has for over 100 years. Hell, if it ain't broke, don't break it!</strong><hr></blockquote>


Fresno, how strange things can look on a forum. The person you say seems to sound like a television officer, is in real life a hot Lazio fan that goes to every match and follows the team also away and abroad, when the job doesn't interfere with the schedule.
Maybe my english is not good enough, but I think I wrote that I like the fact of little teams upsetting the big guns, but at the same time I am worried that this can happen only rarely, while this draw system cann eliminate big and QUALITY teams and let boring and technically irrelevant clubs advance too far away. Maybe giving one or two rounds more to get rid of too sloppy tems would save both thrill and technical level of the game. Simple as that.
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The stubborn, incoherent Piersi. <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" />

You'd probably consider Chievo or Alaves boring, incompetent teams a year ago, but they are currently topping Serie A and La Liga, and playing aome of the most exciting football. Star-studded teams do not equate stellar football... in fact sometimes stars are better left off in the bench. You should know something about that. :D

One more question: have you ever seen Crewe play?
 
Oh my god, he's back... :eek:

Ok, it's not so difficult: Chievo and Alaves are in no ways comparable to Crewe (I can imagine the quality, no offence intended, of course) or other 4th division teams. Try to make your point after reading a topic thorougly, thanks. :rolleyes:

I am coherent, always. And with replies like your last one, you are coherent, too! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
 
Originally posted by Piersifal:
<strong>

Hi Oz,
have you ever seen Crewe play? Is that "decent" footie? .... :D </strong><hr></blockquote>

I have seen Crewe play, and grew up watching a lot of non league football. It can be good.
I've also seen premier league teams playing the most boring football imaginable. Decent footie is about two teams giving their all for a victory, being technically gifted obviously can add to the spectacle but it ain't everything.
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