Is Rio the defender you need?

[Davo]

I've only seen delight on here at the proposed move, which looks increasingly likely to go through..anyone got any doubts?

He's obviously going to imrpove your team in what its weakest area, and is a far better CB than anyone else you have there...but he's of the composed ilk and I reckon you need an "ugly defender" ( like Keown .. ) who gets in the way of everything when it comes anywhere near the box..

He's likely to play alongside Blanc or OG I assume? Both who are similar in terms of style, which would still leave you missing a dominating centre back in the Bruce, Adams, Hyypia mould..

What do you Mancs think then?

 

[Stanley Road]

Go back to bed ya Welsh TiT

 

[Davo]

Originally posted by Stanley Road:
<strong>Go back to bed ya Welsh TiT

</strong><hr></blockquote>


<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

Feck off...I'm starting a serious debate here..

5.45 I was up.

cnut

 

[Stanley Road]

Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>


<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

Feck off...I'm starting a serious debate here..

5.45 I was up.

cnut

</strong><hr></blockquote>

O.K. then

I'm all for buying Rio because he's a promising young talent and he's English and i like it when we buy British players, they seem to want it more.

Dunno what the price is for Rio though but i bet it's far too much, on the bright side we could always sell Veron to get some of the money.

 

[Davo]

Would he be your first choice as a new CB? Over the likes of more established, but foreign and in some cases old cnuts, like Nesta, Thuram, Ayala and co?

 

[Livvie]

Best go get Rio. Young and English. And there's no doubt he would be first choice. Possibly with Gary Neville alongside, as Blanc probably won't play a full season. Wes Brown doesn't inspired me at all as yet. Prefer John O'Shea tbh.

 

[True Treble Reds]

Davo:
I agree with you to a certain extent but I think Wes could be that type because he gets stuck in with the best of 'em. John O'Shea is also a strong tackler, I just think they both need time to gain their respective credibility in the Prem. Wether or not Fergie will give one or both of them a sustained run in the team to attain the respect is debatable but I think if he did, either of them could shine.

 

[Stanley Road]

Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>Would he be your first choice as a new CB? Over the likes of more established, but foreign and in some cases old cnuts, like Nesta, Thuram, Ayala and co?</strong><hr></blockquote>

My first choice yes, cant speak for the club or the true fans

There are enough foreigners at the club, i'd put a limit on it if i had my way

They just come over with big reputations and of course that leads to great expectations( Veron again )which by and large they all fail to deliver

 

[Davo]

Originally posted by True Treble Reds:
<strong>Davo:
I agree with you to a certain extent but I think Wes could be that type because he gets stuck in with the best of 'em. John O'Shea is also a strong tackler, I just think they both need time to gain their respective credibility in the Prem. Wether or not Fergie will give one or both of them a sustained run in the team to attain the respect is debatable but I think if he did, either of them could shine.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Well as you probably know I'm far from convinced by OG, particularly as a tough tackling rugged type....I think he's similar to Rio in style just no where near as good. No idea re O'Shea as I've seen very little of him..

I think Rio would be better off alongside a nonsense defender who'll do the messy stuff for him..he's all the rage at the moment after an excellent world cup, but conditions out there were perfect for him..

 

[Davo]

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>Best go get Rio. Young and English. And there's no doubt he would be first choice. Possibly with Gary Neville alongside, as Blanc probably won't play a full season. Wes Brown doesn't inspired me at all as yet. Prefer John O'Shea tbh.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Is Neville a likely partner?

I wouldn't have thought so..he only seems to play CB in "emergencies"...

 

[Davo]

Originally posted by Stanley Road:
<strong>

My first choice yes, cant speak for the club or the true fans

There are enough foreigners at the club, i'd put a limit on it if i had my way

They just come over with big reputations and of course that leads to great expectations( Veron again )which by and large they all fail to deliver</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah I can understand that..the fact that he's English is going to whack the price up mind..

 

[True Treble Reds]

Davo:
Well according to MoT this whole topic is superfluous as Rio is staying at Leeds.

However, on the off chance that Rio does take a step up, I agree that an 'I'll do the dirty work' type would be the ideal partner for him, who though?, I don't know. Maybe that Fin from Anfield, he's pretty good.

 

[Stanley Road]

Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>he's all the rage at the moment after an excellent world cup, but conditions out there were perfect for him..</strong><hr></blockquote>

It was warm and full of Nips, is that what you mean?

 

[True Treble Reds]

And no, not Litmanen.

 

[Davo]

Originally posted by True Treble Reds:
<strong>Davo:
Well according to MoT this whole topic is superfluous as Rio is staying at Leeds.

However, on the off chance that Rio does take a step up, I agree that an 'I'll do the dirty work' type would be the ideal partner for him, who though?, I don't know. Maybe that Fin from Anfield, he's pretty good. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah we'll take it for granted that he's coming for this thread....

Thats it tho isn't it? Are you likely to buy 2 CB's? Unlikely I'd have thought if you're splashing 30mish on one..

He'll improve your team, but not to the heights that many believe IMO..your defence will still be your weakest point

 

[Davo]

Originally posted by Stanley Road:
<strong>

It was warm and full of Nips, is that what you mean?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah, exactly that...

The heat meant that the matches were played at a slow pace..plenty of time for the CB's

 

[True Treble Reds]

Our defence will get better if the midfield get thier collective arses in gear. Last season I think they were all competing with each other rather than competing as a team which basically made them forget their defensive duties. I'm not making excuses for the defence, as I agree it needs an upgrade, but with the offensive minded midfield we have, many back fours would suffer back there.

 

[Dans]

He'd improve us no end. We still need a new left back though.

 

[RUDDY]

rio and ayala would be just as good as your CB partnership but i cant see us getting both

 

[Davo]

Originally posted by True Treble Reds:
<strong>Our defence will get better if the midfield get thier collective arses in gear. Last season I think they were all competing with each other rather than competing as a team which basically made them forget their defensive duties. I'm not making excuses for the defence, as I agree it needs an upgrade, but with the offensive minded midfield we have, many back fours would suffer back there.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm not sure I buy that...

Considering that you're a lot better than the majority of the other teams in the PL, and generally play with at least one "defensive" midfielder in Butt or Scholes you simply shouldn't be conceding the amount of goals you did last season..

Your defence looked all over the shop at times, and individual errors were a common occurence..

I'm not saying that the midfield problems had no affect, but a better defence would have dealt with the lack of cover far better IMO

 

[Livvie]

You might even say that the weak defence affected the midfield.

I think I'd be inclined to think of it like that, rather than the other way round - the midfield quality was far superior to that of the defence as a unit.

 

[True Treble Reds]

Of course the defence was at fault on numerous occasions and a better group would have dealt with it more efficiently, that's obvious, but, with the interchanging and general fecking around that went on up front, when the ball changed possession, our defence was exposed way too often imo.

Just my opinion but I've never considered Scholesy a defensive midfielder, quite the opposite really.

 

[Livvie]

Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>

Is Neville a likely partner?

I wouldn't have thought so..he only seems to play CB in "emergencies"...</strong><hr></blockquote>


Our best defensive games last season were when GN was playing in the centre.

So I can't see why not.

 

[True Treble Reds]

Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>He'd improve us no end. We still need a new left back though.</strong><hr></blockquote>Apparently Sorin is coming for free..... According to that Ozzie institution known as.....<a href="http://forum.redcafe.net/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=000782" target="_blank">www.TribalFootball.com</a>

 

[Davo]

Originally posted by RUDDY:
<strong>rio and ayala would be just as good as your CB partnership but i cant see us getting both</strong><hr></blockquote>

On paper maybe...they'd have to prove it first

You know what these South Americans are like in the PL...

 

[choccy]

Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>

Yeah we'll take it for granted that he's coming for this thread....

Thats it tho isn't it? Are you likely to buy 2 CB's? Unlikely I'd have thought if you're splashing 30mish on one..

He'll improve your team, but not to the heights that many believe IMO..your defence will still be your weakest point</strong><hr></blockquote> i find I,m with you on this one . I am not at all convinced that for 30+ million he,s the ideal man. I think he needs the no nonsense type beside him a la Campbell who, what ever else he is, is no ball playing type, and I cannot see Ferdinand and Blanc, for example, being a solid combination.
I actually think something like Hofland+Mexes would be a better long term bet. One a ball player and the other a hoofer to give the type of combination required.
I think the fact that Ferdinand is English is lulling a lot of people into thinking he is a super hero when the reality is five reasonable games against teams playing a style of football unlike that played in the EPL. It might be interesting to examine the Leeds defence stats for last season to see just how super he is.

 

[Davo]

Originally posted by True Treble Reds:
<strong>Of course the defence was at fault on numerous occasions and a better group would have dealt with it more efficiently, that's obvious, but, with the interchanging and general fecking around that went on up front, when the ball changed possession, our defence was exposed way too often imo.

Just my opinion but I've never considered Scholesy a defensive midfielder, quite the opposite really.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Nor do I consider Scholes a defensive midfielder??

Is Ferdinand the man to sort out an exposed defence?

 

[Davo]

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>


Our best defensive games last season were when GN was playing in the centre.

So I can't see why not.</strong><hr></blockquote>

He was moved back to RB tho wasn't he as soon as soon as Johnsen returned?

If you are going down that road, which I don't think you will, then you'll need a new RB..

 

[RUDDY]

Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>

On paper maybe...they'd have to prove it first

You know what these South Americans are like in the PL... </strong><hr></blockquote>

he doesnt play like a south american hes a tough cnut and he takes no shit i think that would be a perfect partnership,plus we can get him for 10mil cuz hes got a year left on his contract.

but really can only see rio coming

 

[Davo]

Originally posted by choccy:
<strong> i find I,m with you on this one . I am not at all convinced that for 30+ million he,s the ideal man. I think he needs the no nonsense type beside him a la Campbell who, what ever else he is, is no ball playing type, and I cannot see Ferdinand and Blanc, for example, being a solid combination.
I actually think something like Hofland+Mexes would be a better long term bet. One a ball player and the other a hoofer to give the type of combination required.
I think the fact that Ferdinand is English is lulling a lot of people into thinking he is a super hero when the reality is five reasonable games against teams playing a style of football unlike that played in the EPL. It might be interesting to examine the Leeds defence stats for last season to see just how super he is.</strong><hr></blockquote>


In fairness Leeds were pretty decent in defence last season ( apart from against us.. and you actually )...

 

[Davo]

Originally posted by RUDDY:
<strong>

he doesnt play like a south american hes a tough cnut and he takes no shit i think that would be a perfect partnership,plus we can get him for 10mil cuz hes got a year left on his contract.

but really can only see rio coming</strong><hr></blockquote>


I like that...not playing like a South American is considered a good thing..

Not sure how good he is..

 

[Livvie]

Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>

He was moved back to RB tho wasn't he as soon as soon as Johnsen returned?

</strong><hr></blockquote>


But were we as good then.

 

[RUDDY]

Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>


I like that...not playing like a South American is considered a good thing..

Not sure how good he is..</strong><hr></blockquote>

who ayala?

 

[True Treble Reds]

Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>Nor do I consider Scholes a defensive midfielder???</strong><hr></blockquote>

and generally play with at least one "defensive" midfielder in Butt or Scholes<hr></blockquote>I thought that's what you meant.

Anyway, it matters not.

You ask if Rio is the man to sort out an exposed defence. My answer to that is no. Rio would add speed, height and composure but imo, I believe the manager/coach should be doing that on the training field. Rio, Sami, Nesta, Ayala or even f'kin Beckenbauer would all have exposure problems in a team that plays the way we do.

Don't get me wrong, I love the attack minded way we play, I just think we missed the Kidd/Maclaren influence on the training pitch last season. I watched a hell of a lot of games and I saw a lot of non-covering when player X was out of position which led to opposition attacks either outnumbering us or 3 on 3 etc. The defence is always at a disadvantage due to the attacker knowing what he's gonna do before the defender does.

Again, I know we need a better back four, however, we also need the midfield to step up a tad too.

 

[Davo]

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>


But were we as good then.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Maybe not?

But it would appear that thats the way your boss prefers it..

 

[Davo]

Originally posted by RUDDY:
<strong>

who ayala?</strong><hr></blockquote>

aye

 

[Davo]

Originally posted by True Treble Reds:
<strong>I thought that's what you meant.

Anyway, it matters not.

You ask if Rio is the man to sort out an exposed defence. My answer to that is no. Rio would add speed, height and composure but imo, I believe the manager/coach should be doing that on the training field. Rio, Sami, Nesta, Ayala or even f'kin Beckenbauer would all have exposure problems in a team that plays the way we do.

Don't get me wrong, I love the attack minded way we play, I just think we missed the Kidd/Maclaren influence on the training pitch last season. I watched a hell of a lot of games and I saw a lot of non-covering when player X was out of position which led to opposition attacks either outnumbering us or 3 on 3 etc. The defence is always at a disadvantage due to the attacker knowing what he's gonna do before the defender does.

Again, I know we need a better back four, however, we also need the midfield to step up a tad too.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Aahhhhh..I meant Keane

Feckin hell..you make it sound as if you're fecked no matter who you sign in defence! I hope thats the case...

 

[osterdal]

Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>
Is Ferdinand the man to sort out an exposed defence?</strong><hr></blockquote>

No. Not him alone.

But is there anyone more suited? IMHO no.

Rio is a world class defender and had a great WC. He's tested at every level, Premier League included. Also, having Blanc as a teammate will help him very much. Maybe they are not ideal partners but as a player to learn from there is few better than Blanc. I can also see Rio and O'Shea become a very solid CD pair in the future.

The solution to our defensive problems though isn't down to only one person. First of all we need to get Barthez back to the form of 2000-01. Then the back four must together improve. Player by player we're good enough IMO. Silvestre is improving every day and Neville always does what he's supposed to. And Blanc, old and slow as he is, is still a very good defender.

As for Gary Neville moving center? It won't happen more than for the odd match. He seems to improve his game whenever moved center though.

 

[True Treble Reds]

Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>Aahhhhh..I meant Keane

Feckin hell..you make it sound as if you're fecked no matter who you sign in defence! I hope thats the case... </strong><hr></blockquote>I think last season was a freak occurance... I f'kin hope so anyway.

Jaap's departure & Larry's arrival plus a load of uncertainty surrounding Fergies successor all contributed to an abnormality imo and I doubt that a club of United's stature will let it happen again,

Lost in all this has been the appointment of Carlos Quiroz. I think he'll add that extra bit of coaching prowess that I personally think is needed.

 

[Davo]

Originally posted by True Treble Reds:
<strong>I think last season was a freak occurance... I f'kin hope so anyway.

Jaap's departure & Larry's arrival plus a load of uncertainty surrounding Fergies successor all contributed to an abnormality imo and I doubt that a club of United's stature will let it happen again,

Lost in all this has been the appointment of Carlos Quiroz. I think he'll add that extra bit of coaching prowess that I personally think is needed.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Easy excuse the freak occurence tho ain't it? Obviously selling your only WC defender early into the season isn't the most stable thing to do re your defence, but if a team is on its way down its always going to start with "one freak season"..