I mean, look how slow football was back then.
Even Grealish would be tearing teams apart if they played like that.
Even Grealish would be tearing teams apart if they played like that.
Is Pele overrated?
- Thread starter UnofficialDevil
- Start date
Nah everything looks worse on replay
No.
It has nothing to do with that, teams were just a lot less organised and no where near a fit.
No, underrated if anything.
That World Cup was a bit special since teams struggled both with intense heat & high altitude.
That World Cup was a bit special since teams struggled both with intense heat & high altitude.
Was supposed to be a joke about challenges looking worse on replay but anyway...
If you watch something like this game you can see some stark differences in terms of how they play. It's much more methodical, boxes are often congested as if they're trying to block shots coming in altogether, lots of wayward attempts at tackles and generally tons of shots that get skied into the stands (likely due to congested defenses). Almost looks like a different sport at times.
Edit - Not to mention how much the heavier ball and bobbly pitch interrupt the speed.
What a stupid question. Sure football was slower then but so what? Defenders could and did kick the brown stuff out of talented players. You can only be the best of your generation. Pele certainly was one of the best of his.
The defending is criminal compared to modern standards. So much space, so often they fully commit.
Agree with this. Any football played at over 2000m above sea level in the middle of the day and in the middle of the summer will look slow.
Yes and no, do I think he's the best to ever do it? no, do I think his WC legacy is massively overstated? Yes, id he still on of the best ever and probably top 3 or 4? Yes.
Pretty sure substitutions weren’t around back then either, if they were it was a limited 1 sub. They played in tougher conditions than now.
Appears to be more and more the case.
Comparing Grealish to Pele 
Atleast could have chosen a more credible name from the modern times
Atleast could have chosen a more credible name from the modern times
Like comparing the 20th ranked tennis player of today against Bjorn Borg 
1970 World Cup isn't the best example of howthe average high level football game tempo was at the time. As said, it was played in the middle of the Mexican summer, often at high altitude too.
That famous goal came at the end of the game against an Italian team that had faded badly in the last 30 minutes, after playing a gruelling semi-final extra time game against West Germany. I think you can argue that the 70 World Cup is maybe an over mythologised tournament in general terms but most of the games being slow isn't exactly the smartest way to argue Pele was overrated.
That famous goal came at the end of the game against an Italian team that had faded badly in the last 30 minutes, after playing a gruelling semi-final extra time game against West Germany. I think you can argue that the 70 World Cup is maybe an over mythologised tournament in general terms but most of the games being slow isn't exactly the smartest way to argue Pele was overrated.
Liverpool’s fecking goalie has got more assists in 2022 than Grealish. From his own half.Comparing Grealish to Pele
Atleast could have chosen a more credible name from the modern times
It was played at altitude and in hot weather. Maybe it was over mythologised but it lives long in the memory! It’s the first World Cup I remember and it still seems magical to me as do that Brazilian team and some of the greats from Italy, Germany, England and Peru that took part.
Cubillas of Peru still stands out for me, Riva of Italy , Beckenbauer, Charlton, Banks etc etc .
Modern players would run rings around the older generations in a like for like, then vs now.
Conditioning and tactical awareness would ensure they'd never see the ball apart from kick off. Closest they'd get is slicing a modern player down.
Of course you could even it up with training and conditioning for past players in a hypothetical and you'd see the talent on display shine to the top but the game now is vastly different to it was in the early 00's, let alone the 1950/60/70's.
Conditioning and tactical awareness would ensure they'd never see the ball apart from kick off. Closest they'd get is slicing a modern player down.
Of course you could even it up with training and conditioning for past players in a hypothetical and you'd see the talent on display shine to the top but the game now is vastly different to it was in the early 00's, let alone the 1950/60/70's.
In all honesty, modern teams would run rings around top sides from the early noughties let alone further back. I think that the average number of sprints per game has doubled over the past 20 years. A side like Brighton would press Ronaldinho's Barca off the pitch.
I always judge players and teams greatness in different generations by how they were relative to the competition they were up against. Players always are getting fitter and stronger but Pele was fitter faster and more talented than anybody relative to anybody in his era which puts him at top 2 or 3 for me all time.
The bottom level of the team's tactics, positioning and fitness may be much lower but some of the one-twos, one touch passes, dribbling, game instincts and intelligence is elite stuff. That cheeky nutmeg at 1:12 is tekkers.
You'd think football in the olden days i.e before the premier league is just a bunch of burly construction workers running around on a field but the technique and virtuoso plays are there.
edit: It cut aways but look at the touch from the Italian player no.4 at 2:30! High ball, inside his own box with his back to goal with Pele (?) looking to close him down. Classy.
3:12 Italian defender failing to do the Bailly TM stepover.
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1000%
His ability is not in question. The only reason he is overrated is if you begin to compare him to Ronaldo, Messi, and Maradona.
Number 4 on the Mount Rushmore behind the Ronaldo, Messi, and Maradona.
His ability is not in question. The only reason he is overrated is if you begin to compare him to Ronaldo, Messi, and Maradona.
Number 4 on the Mount Rushmore behind the Ronaldo, Messi, and Maradona.
Never ever over rated.
He was also a cultural icon back in the day. He was the equivalent of Messi back then in terms of his ability being ahead of the pack. He was for a long time rightfully regarded as the greatest player ever, of course as time rolls over other players over take him. Too often people try to belittle him as a means to make their own favourites look better. He was brilliant, a complete player, could use both feet, was fast, strong, brave, great in the air and also could find great passes as well as his ability to score. His place in history during his era as the best or greatest is secure. In terms of the entirety of football history is up for debate but he was never ever over rated.
He was also a cultural icon back in the day. He was the equivalent of Messi back then in terms of his ability being ahead of the pack. He was for a long time rightfully regarded as the greatest player ever, of course as time rolls over other players over take him. Too often people try to belittle him as a means to make their own favourites look better. He was brilliant, a complete player, could use both feet, was fast, strong, brave, great in the air and also could find great passes as well as his ability to score. His place in history during his era as the best or greatest is secure. In terms of the entirety of football history is up for debate but he was never ever over rated.
He couldn’t even maintain an erection, ffs.
I heard a bloke say Edin Dzeko is a better player than Pele and literally spat my tea out one day in the work canteen.
We get football has changed but to be this ignorant of a freakish talent like Pele I will never understand.
We get football has changed but to be this ignorant of a freakish talent like Pele I will never understand.
How is he uncomparable to Maradona? Maradona's greatest achievment is his WC win and Pele has 3..
If Pele was overrated, George Best was shit
There is no logic comparing 70s football with current football.
You have to send Grealish to the 70s without all PEDs and the legal doping modern players get from their clubs thanks to high advanced medicine.
What's the freaking point of sending Grealish to face 70s players with all the PEDs and legal doping he got from modern medicine?
Grealish should be in the 70s, with 70s nutrition, 70s medicine, and 70s fitness level...and trust me he would look a like mediocre player because back then football was more about natural talent than physicality.
"I'm sure i can kill Achilles with a gun i just bought in my local gun store, so I'm stronger than Achilles"...this is what OP said basically.
You have to send Grealish to the 70s without all PEDs and the legal doping modern players get from their clubs thanks to high advanced medicine.
What's the freaking point of sending Grealish to face 70s players with all the PEDs and legal doping he got from modern medicine?
Grealish should be in the 70s, with 70s nutrition, 70s medicine, and 70s fitness level...and trust me he would look a like mediocre player because back then football was more about natural talent than physicality.
"I'm sure i can kill Achilles with a gun i just bought in my local gun store, so I'm stronger than Achilles"...this is what OP said basically.
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I’ve had this discussions to many times on this forum. With lots of information and stats.
I grew up playing and watching football during his and Maradonnas era and stats dont really tell the full story of the time. Both of them were amazing, for me its almost impossible to seperate them.
Next we will be hearing that George Best was overrated
"Grealish > Pele" is the new "Bramble > Zidane"
Sounds like a racist.
I wonder what information would prove Maradona is uncomparable to Pele..
Zaha is better than Best too and McT is as good as Bobby Charlton.
I really have no idea.
Based on hearsay legacy, a look on his career and the available footage, I do think he should be among the top 1-2 GOAT.
But based on the lower football standard back in 60s, while he played most of his club football in regional league level (not his fault though as Brazil league was on regional format back then), I understand some people may rank him abit lower among top 4 GOAT.
But in any case, I think he should sit comfortably in the top tier (alongside Messi, Ronaldo, Maradona).
Best Club peak: Messi
Best International peak: Maradona
Best Club career: Ronaldo
Ronaldo, Messi, Di Stefano
Best International career: Pele
Most talented: Maradona
Maradona, Messi, L.Ronaldo, Best
Most significant all time records: Ronaldo
Most career goals: Ronaldo
Most career assists: Messi
Most international goals: Ronaldo
Most club goals: Ronaldo
Most CL goal/assists: Ronaldo
Most goals in a season/year: Messi
Most significant honours: Messi
Most Ballon D’or: Messi
Most Golden Shoe: Messi
Most honours in WC: Pele
Most honours in CL: Ronaldo
Goal of Century: Maradona
Most Legacy: Pele
Most iconic: Pele (3 WC + 1000 goal)
Most memorable: Maradona (86 WC)
Most revolutionary: Cruyff (total football), Beckenbauer (Kaiser)
Most dominant: Ronaldo (06-20), Messi (08-21)
Based on hearsay legacy, a look on his career and the available footage, I do think he should be among the top 1-2 GOAT.
But based on the lower football standard back in 60s, while he played most of his club football in regional league level (not his fault though as Brazil league was on regional format back then), I understand some people may rank him abit lower among top 4 GOAT.
But in any case, I think he should sit comfortably in the top tier (alongside Messi, Ronaldo, Maradona).
Best Club peak: Messi
Best International peak: Maradona
Best Club career: Ronaldo
Ronaldo, Messi, Di Stefano
Best International career: Pele
Most talented: Maradona
Maradona, Messi, L.Ronaldo, Best
Most significant all time records: Ronaldo
Most career goals: Ronaldo
Most career assists: Messi
Most international goals: Ronaldo
Most club goals: Ronaldo
Most CL goal/assists: Ronaldo
Most goals in a season/year: Messi
Most significant honours: Messi
Most Ballon D’or: Messi
Most Golden Shoe: Messi
Most honours in WC: Pele
Most honours in CL: Ronaldo
Goal of Century: Maradona
Most Legacy: Pele
Most iconic: Pele (3 WC + 1000 goal)
Most memorable: Maradona (86 WC)
Most revolutionary: Cruyff (total football), Beckenbauer (Kaiser)
Most dominant: Ronaldo (06-20), Messi (08-21)
Great post. But you missed out the most important one.
Most unbelievable achievement
Maradona wining the toughest league with the weakest team ever. (Twice!)
Watching old footage of Pele and comparing it to footage of Maradona, feels like Maradona was far more technically gifted and just a way better footballer overall. Does anyone else feel the same way?
Muhammad Ali is overrated then, so is Bill Russell.. It's such a stupid thing to cross-analyze eras, like if Ronaldo would have a 8 pack in the 60s
No, he's proper rated or underrated
If anything is overlooked or underestimated, it's called the degree of difficulty in Brazilian football in the 1950s-1960s. At that time, it was one of the best in the world with many Brazilian superstars in almost every position.
If anything is overlooked or underestimated, it's called the degree of difficulty in Brazilian football in the 1950s-1960s. At that time, it was one of the best in the world with many Brazilian superstars in almost every position.