Irish Politics
- Thread starter JakeC
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
He's done more than enough for ye.
(Goes to turn the framed photo down in case anyone insults James)
You’ve had some strange takes in this thread in my opinion. But this one tops it, by a country mile.
Thanks for that. Too often 'the left' responds to any critique at all with the suggestion that you must therefore be some sort of middle class, pro establishment sort. In her own constituency, Mary Lou Mcdonald has so far seen 13% of the non establishment vote go to a drug dealing, a quite likely murderer, who has headed up one of the most destructive, violent, abhorrent gangs in Irish history. Now, surely it's reasonable to ask why, when choosing to vote non government, people decided to vote that way instead of sinn fein. Surely Gerry Hutch doesn't have rte in his pocket.
He may not be miles off, that's been the narrative on him in my local by the aul lads, laughing as they say it.
Firstly, I didn't respond in detail because you said you weren't going to engage. And your own insult of Richard Boyd Barret wasn't exactly a critique and showed your hand, which is fine. Your post was a declaration. There is no point engaging with that.
And the Hutch vote is a protest vote, it's not like he ticks the boxes SF have been accused of not ticking. SF represents a valid chance for change and may once again be the largest single party, which in the landscape of any two party state is quite the achievement. The Hutch is a shocking and embarrassing vote, and hope just that and not a kick-on from the lunatic right-wing vote in the locals.
Stephen Donnelly potentially losing his seat pleases me greatly.
Yeah, that snaky move to join FF really pissed off people who voted for him.
The best thing you can say for Hutch is that he has probably taken a fair few votes from Steenson who is worse but thankfully looks like being nowhere near this morning.
That he has
Yep, Malachy is quite the chap. He can focus on being a prick at local level now. I'm in shock at the Hutch vote to be honest.
Didn't vote for him!
I was worried Gannon might be the biggest casualty of the Hutch campaign but things are looking ok for him as it stands.
The FFG have been gangsters for decades. Remember Haughy, Ahern, et al? Or do just pretend that doesn't exist. I wouldn't vote for the man but it does demonstrate something: the public quite clearly, in that area, consider the man to be ~ with respect to the criminality of the ruling class.
So no, I don't think it's a weird take. It is a protest vote and exposes the FFG state in the minds of the people insofar as a significant amount can and do conflate them with gangsters. Just different kind of gangsters.
This is the only really contentious thing I've posted here. And it's not like I'd vote for him. I'm just pointing out the somewhat farcical quality of it.
So who does it look like getting in as it stands?
The Hutch vote is a shame on the entire country. On that we agree. He has destroyed parts of society and his so called city to a greater degree than maybe anyone still alive or as much as. Its arguably the lowest point in Irish political - electoral- history
Mary Lou, Paschal, Gary Gannon, Hutch. Maybe Sherlock vs Hutch showdown
Holy god.
It's mind boggling.
If Hutch gets in I'm taking down my "eat the rich" poster and making a "nuke the poor" one.
Just include Haughy's grave on your nuclear map.And Ahern's mystical bank accounts.
Obviously the two above are not the Monk, a literal criminal, but there has been so much criminality in Irish politics over the years I do not blame poor people for voting in a literal criminal.
Surely it's a failure of the state? I mean, that's exactly what it is anyway or else this man cannot poll anything like where he's polling. It would be deemed "impossible" as it has been in the past for good reasons.
I cannot understand it as anything other than a protest vote. As unseemly as it is.
I do, it's fecking stupid, ignorant and counterproductive. It's the same stupid 'logic' that makes people vote for crooks all over rural Ireland "Oh Mickey is the right fella to show them fellas up in Dublin" ... er no folks, that's not how it works.
Prime Time did an expose a few years ago on two local councilors here basically involved in crimes, and they were both re-elected first and second in the next local elections, less than a year later.
I'm genuinely angry.
I absolutely don’t forget the corruption of Bertie and while I’m too young to remember the Haughey days, there’s no denying the corruption there. Abuses of power for their own financial gain is abhorrent and gangsters would be an accurate description of both.
But Haughey and Bertie weren’t on the ballot yesterday. Using the corruption of politician in the past doesn’t excuse voting for a gangster involved in the drug trade which has ruined the lives of many in his constituency.
FF were on the ballot though. So if the people of Dublin central still feel let down the past corruption of Fianna Fáil, they had many other options that didn’t force their hand to mark 1 beside Gerry Hutch.
It’s an embarrassment to the area that he’s tallying so high and throwing out that Bertie and Charlie were gangsters is entirely irrelevant.
You really are wide of the mark here i feel, respectfully. Its an abstraction too far to even try equate political cronyism and corruption with genuine murder and flooding a country with drugs. voting for a man who has likely murdered people - or at very least ordered their murders, while claiming to represent the working class is a diabolical misstep. You can see hutch in every drug addict on the street, every drug motivated violent robbery, every overdose and every civilian that gets in the crossfire. An utter scumbag who may now occupy a seat in the dail- its an insult to the memory of anybody who made Ireland and it's an insult to alternative parties such as sinn fein too. Nobody should do anything but condemn the idiocy that has led to this.
It does a disservice to the nation to discuss him the same breath as even the most odious of our politicians
The people that are voting for Hutch are people that don't particularly care for the law, simple as. They're happy to vote for Hutch because they know loads of criminals of some description.
not in the minds of those who vote for him.
Didn't Haughy run guns up the north? That murdered people. I'm not saying there's an equivalence in that politicians order murders (they absolutely do in other states, including democracies, but not so with Irish neutrality) but that the people who are voting for him clearly must think the government is just as criminal, whether now, or historically, as is the man they are voting for.
It is a protest vote is my primary point. Don't see how that is contentious.
And a load of 'for the craic' idiots. Democracy is so depressing sometimes.
Not in the history of the state and its political infrastructures, it isn't. And every election carries that baggage.
Anyway, it's a protest vote. I don't condemn the people who vote for him. I condemn the conditions that enable the vote. As to why him and not someone else? Again, it is a protest vote. They're voting to get one over on the establishment. Like Brexit or Trump (first time round). This is obvious.
Yup, I think labelling it a protest vote is giving them too much credit.
Have stopped. Just answering people who misinterpret what I've said. Primarily, it is a protest vote and I blame the establishment, historically, and present, for his possible election. I do not blame the people who vote for him. That's for everyone else to determine for themselves.
You were justifying it by calling him a “small time crook”, when compared to “gangsters” Haughey and Ahern.
You’re rowing back now, calling it a protest vote.
And even as a protest vote, it’s embarrassing for the constituency.
I think you're crediting too much this symbolic vote towards comparing govt to gangsters. I know 2 men who spent years in the community where hutch has done best and very simply a lot of the people love him. Its a really ugly selective outrage from these voters and I for one won't have any sympathy when i hear them moaning about the government for the next 5 years whoever gets in.
Hes a vile, abhorrent criminal of the most severe kind and generations of irish people will be turning in their graves if he sits in the dail.
I called him a minor cartel leader and a gangster. And he is somewhat "small time" these days. Unless I've misread the cartel reporting landscape. Phraseology isn't always semantically 100%.
And no, I'm not backtracking. Huaghey was an elected gangster. One of too many to count. Different types of gangsterism.
And it is a protest vote. What else is it? A feck you to the establishment is the obvious way of reading it. I don't see what else it can be.
Hutch apart, the Dublin tallies seem quite left leaning.
“Small time crook” were your words. Even still, you’re rowing back.
I’ve engaged more than I intended with this to be honest.
Rowing back what? Small time gangster. Basically correct. Small time cartel leader. Leader of a small cartel. Do you want a thesaurus? I'm as aware as any of you regarding the cartel war(s) because I was actually somewhat on the front line (academically). I'm rowing back feck all. Nor do I support the election. I just know it is a protest vote.
That's as funny a sentence about Irish politics as I've ever heard.Lads. Enough bickering. We can park our disagreements once we have voiced them.