Irish Politics

[Raulduke]

Maybe it’s because I’m a nordie but i wouldn’t trust SF as far as I could throw them.

I think they would let themselves get carried away with border polls and the such whilst the country continues to go to hell

Their constituency work in the North has always been very highly regarded which usually counts for a lot come election time. Not sure if it's the same for them in the South but anecdotally my local SF TD's office helped sort my kids passports last summer at fairly short notice so that's at least worth a high preference from me.

 

[moses]

is that Mr. Bean or a different McSharry?

Mr Bean. The other one was the mayor I think. There is another McSharry running too. Edel or something.

 

[moses]

Their constituency work in the North has always been very highly regarded which usually counts for a lot come election time. Not sure if it's the same for them in the South but anecdotally my local SF TD's office helped sort my kids passports last summer at fairly short notice so that's at least worth a high preference from me.

Yeah they rolled their sleeves up and sorted out some badly needed issues at community level in Tallaght when they got in first.

 

[Steve Bruce]

Their constituency work in the North has always been very highly regarded which usually counts for a lot come election time. Not sure if it's the same for them in the South but anecdotally my local SF TD's office helped sort my kids passports last summer at fairly short notice so that's at least worth a high preference from me.

In areas like West Belfast where they've been the dominant party for decades and they've also been in government for nearly 2 decades and theres still a massive housing issue, social issues, very poor people and health issues in the area.

These things like housing for example is what they're trying to convince the Irish electorate they can fix when they've failed miserably in stormont.

Not to mention the current leadership found covering up recent scandals. Something that isn't a new thing for Sinn Fein (without even taking about troubles related cover ups). When you think that Gerry Adams was informed his brother was abusing his daughter in 1987 and it took over 20 years before Gerry came clean. The same thing with his dad, he also covered that up.

SFs PR is second to none and people just get conned into what they are saying.

It also says a lot about FF and FG that SF are even a consideration in the ROI. An electorate I would consider more mature than NI.

 

[moses]

In areas like West Belfast where they've been the dominant party for decades and they've also been in government for nearly 2 decades and theres still a massive housing issue, social issues, very poor people and health issues in the area.

These things like housing for example is what they're trying to convince the Irish electorate they can fix when they've failed miserably in stormont.

Not to mention the current leadership found covering up recent scandals. Something that isn't a new thing for Sinn Fein (without even taking about troubles related cover ups). When you think that Gerry Adams was informed his brother was abusing his daughter in 1987 and it took over 20 years before Gerry came clean. The same thing with his dad, he also covered that up.

SFs PR is second to none and people just get conned into what they are saying.

It also says a lot about FF and FG that SF are even a consideration in the ROI. An electorate I would consider more mature than NI.

Stormont has failed miserably. There was no executive for long periods. That has created huge ancillary problems for housing in the north. The water and sewage infrastructure is so bad it can't accommodate the much-needed large-scale development.

Yes, all parties are accountable but there is context to their failure in specific areas. A dysfunctional executive.

 

[Ali Dia]

Where are you? I'm in the Sligo/Leitrim 4 Seat constituency and there is one FF, one FG, one SF, and a community-focused Independent, which is as good as you'd get in such a rural area.

I’m in NE galway so not a million miles away. I love Sligo, irelands best kept secret along with Mayo and Donegal. There’s a people before profit candidate that I’ve never heard of. A shifty looking young SF fella that I’ve never heard of. An independent who’ll walk it as he’s been involved in local and national politics for a long time and has a big following. He goes against almost everything I stand for. No social democrat here either. Few loonies from the new right that hopefully nobody will ever hear from again.

What’ll happen is it will be a rainbow coalition and then FF/G will get voted in again next time. It’s depressing but the new parties are like Ipswich trying to win the PL.. they need to get the foot in the door and consolidate but that’s enough ammo for the big two to persuade people that they are ineffective. FF/G will also dig their heels in on flawed policies that they enacted during this term

 

[moses]

I’m in NE galway so not a million miles away. I love Sligo, irelands best kept secret along with Mayo and Donegal. There’s a people before profit candidate that I’ve never heard of. A shifty looking young SF fella that I’ve never heard of. An independent who’ll walk it as he’s been involved in local and national politics for a long time and has a big following. He goes against almost everything I stand for. No social democrat here either. Few loonies from the new right that hopefully nobody will ever hear from again.

What’ll happen is it will be a rainbow coalition and then FF/G will get voted in again next time. It’s depressing but the new parties are like Ipswich trying to win the PL.. they need to get the foot in the door and consolidate but that’s enough ammo for the big two to persuade people that they are ineffective. FF/G will also dig their heels in on flawed policies that they enacted during this term

That's Canney? He will get a seat as will FG and FF. The only hope of FF or FG not getting the 4th seat is if the SF guy gets in. As for the whole outcome, it's tricky with the extra seats, and the FG exodus, will be interesting.

 

[Steve Bruce]

Stormont has failed miserably. There was no executive for long periods. That has created huge ancillary problems for housing in the north. The water and sewage infrastructure is so bad it can't accommodate the much-needed large-scale development.

Yes, all parties are accountable but there is context to their failure in specific areas. A dysfunctional executive.

That's all true, but they are one of two main reasons for it. Them and the DUP.

SF and the DUP are two protest party's at their core. They are ill equipped and unable to run a country and that has been proven time and again in NI with multiple callapses of government

They are also two party's that claimed to be from working class for working class. How many properties does Ian Paisley or Gerry Adams and many of the other leaders in those partys have? They're all rich off the back of working class people they are supposed to represent and help.

Do you think SF will all of a sudden know how to do it in a coalition in Roi?

 

[moses]

That's all true, but they are one of two main reasons for it. Them and the DUP.

SF and the DUP are two protest party's at their core. They are ill equipped and unable to run a country and that has been proven time and again in NI with multiple callapses of government

They are also two party's that claimed to be from working class for working class. How many properties does Ian Paisley or Gerry Adams and many of the other leaders in those partys have? They're all rich off the back of working class people they are supposed to represent and help.

Do you think SF will all of a sudden know how to do it in a coalition in Roi?

No idea, but as part of the broader landscape I do think they are worth a punt. That said I think the most likely next government will look very similar to this one. Which worries me more than taking a punt on SF.

I've said it repeatedly, a bad term in office will kill them for a long time, as so many of their supporters in the South are not fully committed, they are more about change than SF ideologues, so that, combined with the scrutiny they will get makes me think they are worth a go.

 

[golden_blunder]

DUP and SF are the 2 biggest obstacles in NI to the country flourishing

 

[golden_blunder]

No idea, but as part of the broader landscape I do think they are worth a punt. That said I think the most likely next government will look very similar to this one. Which worries me more than taking a punt on SF.

I've said it repeatedly, a bad term in office will kill them for a long time, as so many of their supporters in the South are not fully committed, they are more about change than SF ideologues, so that, combined with the scrutiny they will get makes me think they are worth a go.

I can’t help but think that’s the type of thinking that pushed through Brexit
At the same time I don’t know what the answer is

 

[Steve Bruce]

DUP and SF are the 2 biggest obstacles in NI to the country flourishing

Couldn't put it better myself

 

[moses]

I can’t help but think that’s the type of thinking that pushed through Brexit
At the same time I don’t know what the answer is

Not really, I was just responding to the lack of trust narrative. I really like Pearse Doherty's attitude to the insurance industry, I align myself with their stance on Palestine and most foreign policy issues and always have done. I think Eoin O Broin is brilliant on housing and is well respected as such in Universities here and abroad. I've read two of his books, one is a very good emotional and anecdotal account of the Pyrite scandal and Celtic Tiger shenanigans and the other is a really good policy based book on social housing. I like a lot of their policies, but the narrative wasn't about their policies, just a distrust to implement them.

The broad point is that while their support in NI was entrenched, it's not at all so in the South. If they don't deliver the change they promise they will evaporate.

 

[Ali Dia]

That's Canney? He will get a seat as will FG and FF. The only hope of FF or FG not getting the 4th seat is if the SF guy gets in. As for the whole outcome, it's tricky with the extra seats, and the FG exodus, will be interesting.

That’s him ya. To be fair he’s the most viable candidate from the area now Killilea is gone but he voted against the occupied territories bill. He also voted against a greenway which would have brought much needed tourism and pride to my hometown. I live in galway city but only renting so registered at my parents in north Galway. You’re right too. It’s depressingly predictable but the other candidates are shite

 

[sullydnl]

If we had a UK-style style system that lends itself to one-party governments then I would understand the reluctance to "trust" Sinn Fein more, as I'm inclined to be quite sceptical towards them myself.

But the reality is that if they're in government, it will be with Fianna Fail, one of the current parties of government. And possibly with another smaller party too.

Which guarantees pretty big degree of compromise/continuity in terms of the actual program for government you end up with. For both good and ill, our political system doesn't lend itself towards radical shifts.

I suspect the people hoping Sinn Fein would bring a radical change are far more likely to be disappointed than the people who fear Sinn Fein bringing a radical change are likely to be proven right. But some change would probably be healthy for the political system overall.

 

[Semper Fudge]

He was my wife’s minister at one time (she’s a civil servant). By all accounts he’s actually a very nice man and looked out for his staff

@Withnail utterly mudded.

 

[moses]

If we had a UK-style style system that lends itself to one-party governments then I would understand the reluctance to "trust" Sinn Fein more, as I'm inclined to be quite sceptical towards them myself.

But the reality is that if they're in government, it will be with Fianna Fail, one of the current parties of government. And possibly with another smaller party too.

Which guarantees pretty big degree of compromise/continuity in terms of the actual program for government you end up with. For both good and ill, our political system doesn't lend itself towards radical shifts.

I suspect the people hoping Sinn Fein would bring a radical change are far more likely to be disappointed than the people who fear Sinn Fein bringing a radical change are likely to be proven right. But some change would probably be healthy for the political system overall.

Good post, especially the bolded bit. SF is diluting itself to stay relevant with the centre that they need to get elected.

 

[Oranges038]

Ah people who vote for them say that anyway.

They do aye.

With the talk of Sinn Fein.

I don't know how SF are doing so well in the polls. All I hear is, "I won't be voting for Sinn Fein", "Sure, they wouldn't know what do with the power and they'd ruin the country".

I talked to quite a few older people who actually think that SF would actually try to take their houses off them. There's a certain amount of fear. FF/FG are afraid SF will do a better job and on the other side you have people who won’t vote for SF because they are afraid they'll make everything worse.

There's a large section of people who no matter what that will vote FG or FF. They could run a donkey and it would probably get elected.

This is Irish politics in a nutshell.

 

[Oranges038]

Anyone voting for any of these gowls?

https://www.nationalalliance.ie/

 

[Massive Spanner]

They do aye.

With the talk of Sinn Fein.

I don't know how SF are doing so well in the polls. All I hear is, "I won't be voting for Sinn Fein", "Sure, they wouldn't know what do with the power and they'd ruin the country".

I talked to quite a few older people who actually think that SF would actually try to take their houses off them. There's a certain amount of fear. FF/FG are afraid SF will do a better job and on the other side you have people who won’t vote for SF because they are afraid they'll make everything worse.

There's a large section of people who no matter what that will vote FG or FF. They could run a donkey and it would probably get elected.

This is Irish politics in a nutshell.

A lot of people over the age of 50 with their own home will vote FFG and just not admit to doing so to their kids. Why wouldn't they? They must be delighted with the value of their house skyrocketing, sure my old man himself is obsessed with it, he'd never tell me he votes for the cnuts but I know well he will.

 

[moses]

They do aye.

With the talk of Sinn Fein.

I don't know how SF are doing so well in the polls. All I hear is, "I won't be voting for Sinn Fein", "Sure, they wouldn't know what do with the power and they'd ruin the country".

I talked to quite a few older people who actually think that SF would actually try to take their houses off them. There's a certain amount of fear. FF/FG are afraid SF will do a better job ad on the other side you have people who won’t vote for SF because they are afraid they'll make everything worse.

There's a large section of people who no matter what that will vote FG or FF. They could run a donkey and it would probably get elected.

This is Irish politics in a nutshell.

SF are at about 20%. Very few people don't have an opinion on SF and people who don't like them, really don't like them and that's understandable from some points of few. So their opponents will be vocal.

They are also a real and present danger to the cosy establishment and while that sounds great it's never not met with all the power said establishment can muster, and that includes RTE and the fecknuts on Newstalk etc. Nobody lets go of that sort of power and avenues to money easily.

There was a lot of damage done to their grass roots support with all the far right protests focusing on them even more so than the government, so a lot of the tricolour loving knuckle draggers that SF had attracted suddenly became very angry at them.

Sadly that was always going to happen if you look at the patterns across Europe and the world. Idiots moving to the right just so they can look down on immigrants and blame them. Punching down is bizarrely attractive to so many people.

 

[moses]

Anyone voting for any of these gowls?

https://www.nationalalliance.ie/

Nope. Scum, all of them.

 

[neverdie]

Idiots moving to the right

Reactionary as it gets because it is the right which is forcing their movement to the right. Right-wing fiscal policies which lead to these migration/immigration results and the somewhat predictable backlash (in immigrant terms) when the resources of the precariat are stressed to breaking point.

How the hell they allowed the Ukrainians in by the hundreds of thousands (I think it's about 150k~?) instead of the tens I will never understand. The consequences were so fecking predictable*. Once you let them in, you have a duty to them. You cannot let them starve or go homeless. All fine by me but in a state of 5.5m people the sheer volume cannot be defended (2-3% of the population just added in one go and this 2-3% all in contest for the very resources we were already lacking). We had a housing and healthcare crisis (the one going back years and the other in reaction to a system that needs changing but also a covid backlog) before this. Indeed, the housing crisis is epidemic at this point.

FFG points about GDP and all of this mean nothing to me and millions like me when the cost of living is what it is and trying to find a house to rent, or to buy, is damn near impossible for so many people. It all has to be put upon the FFG door. That alone tells me "vote for SF" - they have the benefit of having been about almost nothing else except housing for damn near ten years.

*I literally predicted it on this site somewhere about two years ago. That there would be riots subsequent to the no limits upon Ukrainian immigration policy. As soon as the war-fatigue set in and people were feeling the cost of living crisis. It was so fecking inevitable. What the EU should have done is made strategic holding centers in contiguous nations and then asked all nations to finance these until the war was resolved.

 

[moses]

Reactionary as it gets because it is the right which is forcing their movement to the right. Right-wing fiscal policies which lead to these migration/immigration results and the somewhat predictable backlash (in immigrant terms) when the resources of the precariat are stressed to breaking point.

How the hell they allowed the Ukrainians in by the hundreds of thousands (I think it's about 150k~?) instead of the tens I will never understand. The consequences were so fecking predictable. Once you let them in, you have a duty to them. You cannot let them starve or go homeless. All fine by me but in a state of 5.5m people the sheer volume cannot be defended. We had a housing and healthcare crisis (the one going back years and the other in reaction to a system that needs changing but also a covid backlog) before this. Indeed, the housing crisis is epidemic at this point.

FFG points about GDP and all of this mean nothing to me and millions like me when the cost of living is what it is and trying to find a house to rent, or to buy, is damn near impossible for so many people. It all has to be put upon the FFG door. That alone tells me "vote for SF" - they have the benefit of having been about almost nothing else except housing for damn near ten years.

Yeah, the amount of Ukranians is probably tied with the fluttering of our eyelashes at NATO and the mad urge to ditch neutrality.

Our immigration policy needs to be addressed but unfortunately, it's become so caught up in misinformation and culture war nonsense, a conversation about it on any even ground is impossible. "We need to address immigration" becomes "yeah burn them out" all too quickly

 

[neverdie]

We need to address immigration" becomes "yeah burn them out" all too quickly

Which leads to exactly what we saw. No room for any sensible debate now, imo, as the damage (upon state resources) has already been done. It was just terrible policy. 30 or 40 thousand the state could have handled but five to six times that was and is fecking madness. You know the homeless figures and then the figures of those one lost job away from homelessness. Now these are the thousands, directly, and then many, many, thousands indirectly which are in contest with something the government cannot handle.

It was criminal. The nuance is I don't believe it was criminal to accept refugees, which is lost on the "right" or those who take up that rhetoric, but criminal to just accept whatever Brussels or the US was saying. Should have made a stance and said no more than 40k because we cannot afford it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

A lot of people over the age of 50 with their own home will vote FFG and just not admit to doing so to their kids. Why wouldn't they? They must be delighted with the value of their house skyrocketing, sure my old man himself is obsessed with it, he'd never tell me he votes for the cnuts but I know well he will.

Maybe if they don’t have kids. Skyrocketing property prices are a net negative if you’re conscious your kids are going to want to get on the property ladder at some point.

Not that I think FG deserve any credit (or blame) for the price of property. It’s happening in every developed country.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Someone’s going to have to explain why “right wing fiscal policies” is the reason we accepted so many refugees from Ukraine and the Middle East.

 

[neverdie]

Someone’s going to have to explain why “right wing fiscal policies” is the reason we accepted so many refugees from Ukraine and the Middle East.

It is right wing because it is precisely the undermining of the internal labour market which then pits proletariat against proletariat regardless of ethnicity. In Marxian terms, it's about as right wing as it gets. (At the volumes discussed).

Competition for resources, among the precariat, already fecked in that respect, exponentiated.

 

[Oranges038]

A lot of people over the age of 50 with their own home will vote FFG and just not admit to doing so to their kids. Why wouldn't they? They must be delighted with the value of their house skyrocketing, sure my old man himself is obsessed with it, he'd never tell me he votes for the cnuts but I know well he will.

My father in law will vote FG regardless. He comes from a midlands farming background and they all vote FG, because the local TD sorts planning permissions, goes to funerals and all that carry on.

I just agree with him, because I know he's fallen out and refuses to speak to people who don't agree with him on FG. I can't be arsed with the hassle, I won't tell him I'd vote SF if I thought they had the right candidate, but one of our local SF candidates is an absolute weapon who wanted to close down one of the biggest employers in the area. I'm convinced he was talking out of his arse and just looking for a pay off to shut up.

SF are at about 20%. Very few people don't have an opinion on SF and people who don't like them, really don't like them and that's understandable from some points of few. So their opponents will be vocal.

They are also a real and present danger to the cosy establishment and while that sounds great it's never not met with all the power said establishment can muster, and that includes RTE and the fecknuts on Newstalk etc. Nobody lets go of that sort of power and avenues to money easily.

There was a lot of damage done to their grass roots support with all the far right protests focusing on them even more so than the government, so a lot of the tricolour loving knuckle draggers that SF had attracted suddenly became very angry at them.

Sadly that was always going to happen if you look at the patterns across Europe and the world. Idiots moving to the right just so they can look down on immigrants and blame them. Punching down is bizarrely attractive to so many people.

On the media, on one of the late night shows last week they kept banging on about a SF policy point about fact checking the media reporting on foreign events like Israel/ Gaza etc. Out of long policy document, they kept focusing on this one little piece.

I found the angle and focus on it very odd.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It is right wing because it is precisely the undermining of the internal labour market which then pits proletariat against proletariat regardless of ethnicity. In Marxian terms, it's about as right wing as it gets. (At the volumes discussed).

Competition for resources, among the precariat, already fecked in that respect, exponentiated.

Thanks for the politics lesson but what’s that got to do with Ireland accepting refugees from overseas conflicts?

 

[moses]

Maybe if they don’t have kids. Skyrocketing property prices are a net negative if you’re conscious your kids are going to want to get on the property ladder at some point.

Not that I think FG deserve any credit (or blame) for the price of property. It’s happening in every developed country.

Anyone who oversaw the real and steady decline of social housing is to blame. That is very much FG.

I think you might need to read up on housing and homelessness if you think it can be shrugged off with, 'that's just how it is'.

Go and compare us to Denmark, Finland, and the Netherlands. Then come back and say policy doesn't have an impact.

 

[moses]

Thanks for the politics lesson but what’s that got to do with Ireland accepting refugees from overseas conflicts?

ChatGPT for another quick lesson.

Comparing homelessness in Ireland, Denmark, Finland, and the Netherlands reveals significant differences due to policy approaches, measurement methodologies, and socio-economic conditions:

1. Ireland: Homelessness in Ireland has risen sharply over the past decade, driven by a lack of affordable housing, high rents, and reliance on the private housing market. As of 2024, the number of people in emergency accommodation is at record levels. The Irish government has focused on rental subsidies and emergency housing, but these measures have often been insufficient to address structural causes like housing shortages
   Social Justice Ireland
   Focus Ireland
   .
   
   
2. Finland: Finland is a global leader in combating homelessness, primarily due to its "Housing First" strategy, which provides permanent housing as a foundation for addressing other issues. This approach has led to a steady decline in homelessness, making Finland an exemplar in the EU. It demonstrates how integrating housing with social support can create lasting solutions
   Social Justice Ireland
   ECOSCOPE
   .
   
   
3. Denmark: Denmark has implemented comprehensive welfare systems and social housing policies to mitigate homelessness. While some challenges persist, particularly for vulnerable groups like migrants, Denmark's rates of homelessness are relatively stable and significantly lower than those in Ireland
   Social Justice Ireland
   European Parliament
   .
   
   
4. Netherlands: The Netherlands also maintains robust housing policies, focusing on preventing homelessness through early intervention and social housing. Recent efforts have reduced homelessness among youth and other at-risk groups, though issues with affordable housing availability remain a concern
   Social Justice Ireland
   European Parliament
   .
   

In summary, Finland's systemic approach offers a model for reducing homelessness, while Ireland struggles with escalating numbers due to structural issues and reliance on temporary solutions. Denmark and the Netherlands maintain relatively better outcomes through preventive measures and social housing initiatives.

 

[neverdie]

Thanks for the politics lesson but what’s that got to do with Ireland accepting refugees from overseas conflicts?

If you cannot understand the link between accepting 2-3% of a nation's entire population when that 2-3% are going to be, obviously, incredibly poor and in need of the vital resources which are already strained, and the general undermining of those resources (the state's inability to look after the indigenous working class and policy which then pits them against each other by ethnicity) then I think we're best off not discussing it further.

The riots were predictable to anyone who was near the "front-lines" of this crisis. By economic strata. And the anti-Ukrainian sentiment which came was literally predicted at the outset. People burning down hotels and other centers in a weirdly self-defeating move (the state just has to house them elsewhere and now with even fewer resources) was a direct offshoot of this policy. And that is right-wing. It was inevitable. Condemned, as it should be, but by the very clowns who enabled it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Anyone who oversaw the real and steady decline of social housing is to blame. That is very much FG.

I think you might need to read up on housing and homelessness if you think it can be shrugged off with, 'that's just how it is'.

Go and compare us to Denmark, Finland, and the Netherlands. Then come back and say policy doesn't have an impact.

First one I googled was the Netherlands.

In a pan-European housing crisis, the Netherlands’ is next level. According to independent analysis, the average Dutch home now costs €452,000 – more than 10 times the modal, or most common, Dutch salary of €44,000.
That means you need a salary of more than twice that to buy one. Nationwide, house prices have doubled in the past decade; in more sought-after neighbourhoods they have surged 130%. A new-build home costs 16 times an average salary.

The rental market is equally dysfunctional. Rents in the private sector – about 15% of the country’s total housing stock – have soared. A single room in a shared house in Amsterdam is €950 a month; a one-bed flat €1,500 or more; a three-bedder €3,500

 

[Pogue Mahone]

If you cannot understand the link between accepting 2-3% of a nation's entire population when that 2-3% are going to be, obviously, incredibly poor and in need of the vital resources which are already strained, and the general undermining of those resources (the state's inability to look after the indigenous working class and policy which then pits them against each other by ethnicity) then I think we're best off not discussing it further.

The riots were predictable to anyone who was near the "front-lines" of this crisis. By economic strata. And the anti-Ukrainian sentiment which came was literally predicted at the outset. People burning down hotels and other centers in a weirdly self-defeating move (the state just has to house them elsewhere and now with even fewer resources) was a direct offshoot of this policy. And that is right-wing. It was inevitable. Condemned, as it should be, but by the very clowns who enabled it.

You’re saying that Ireland’s commitment to providing a home for displaced refugees was a long term strategy to ensure we’d see right wing rioters taking to the streets? I dunno. Seems a little far-fetched?

 

[moses]

First one I googled was the Netherlands.

I stand corrected.

But the people you refuse to blame reduced social housing while the population grew. We had the means to avoid or alleviate this in place and it was dismantled.

 

[golden_blunder]

Reactionary as it gets because it is the right which is forcing their movement to the right. Right-wing fiscal policies which lead to these migration/immigration results and the somewhat predictable backlash (in immigrant terms) when the resources of the precariat are stressed to breaking point.

How the hell they allowed the Ukrainians in by the hundreds of thousands (I think it's about 150k~?) instead of the tens I will never understand. The consequences were so fecking predictable*. Once you let them in, you have a duty to them. You cannot let them starve or go homeless. All fine by me but in a state of 5.5m people the sheer volume cannot be defended (2-3% of the population just added in one go and this 2-3% all in contest for the very resources we were already lacking). We had a housing and healthcare crisis (the one going back years and the other in reaction to a system that needs changing but also a covid backlog) before this. Indeed, the housing crisis is epidemic at this point.

FFG points about GDP and all of this mean nothing to me and millions like me when the cost of living is what it is and trying to find a house to rent, or to buy, is damn near impossible for so many people. It all has to be put upon the FFG door. That alone tells me "vote for SF" - they have the benefit of having been about almost nothing else except housing for damn near ten years.

*I literally predicted it on this site somewhere about two years ago. That there would be riots subsequent to the no limits upon Ukrainian immigration policy. As soon as the war-fatigue set in and people were feeling the cost of living crisis. It was so fecking inevitable. What the EU should have done is made strategic holding centers in contiguous nations and then asked all nations to finance these until the war was resolved.

Not saying that you’re wrong but all the protests I’ve seen are all giving out about immigration of young men from different countries that have different skin colours and speak Arabic. The so called protests have been nothing but an excuse to vent racism

 

[neverdie]

You’re saying that Ireland’s commitment to providing a home for displaced refugees was a long term strategy to ensure we’d see right wing rioters taking to the streets? I dunno. Seems a little far-fetched?

No. It wasn't a long-term strategy. That's really the point I'm making. It was short-term right-wing reactionary sentiment. The fiscal policy was right-wing because of the sheer volume and the inevitable consequences upon the nation's existing infrastructure.

The politicians had no long-term plan. That is obvious. But they never do. That it would lead to what is literally right-wing (in the fascist sense) was inevitable. They are right-wing reactionaries. (Our FFG government). I don't think that's controversial. But right-wing liberalists, not Benito Mussolini. Tony Blair, basically, is what FFG are. But that is still right-wing. It is just not fascist in that outright right-wing sense.

It was and has been entirely reactionary. Remember when they cut the money the Ukrainians could claim to about 30 euro? This was to appease the actual right wing.

 

[moses]

You’re saying that Ireland’s commitment to providing a home for displaced refugees was a long term strategy to ensure we’d see right wing rioters taking to the streets? I dunno. Seems a little far-fetched?

Well let's say it wasn't policy. It was definitely predictable and we have had many many examples of it in the past. It's negligence and disregard for the already marginalised at very best. Which is quite right wing.

 

[neverdie]

Not saying that you’re wrong but all the protests I’ve seen are all giving out about immigration of young men from different countries that have different skin colours and speak Arabic. The so called protests have been nothing but an excuse to vent racism

Absolutely. But it has been, in my experience, a very much "is it this or that ethnicity which we target". All of it deplorable but that's what happened. Burning down the various state centers where refugees were given asylum. Not just Arab, though that would be more up the actual right-wing's preferred tree of non-white victims, but also Ukrainian. I've witnessed it first hand.