Irish Politics

Maybe its just bargaining?
FG, FF and Labour cant all be in opposition. You have to presume that if there is another election none of them are going to fare much, if any better. Labour don't even have a party leader at the moment. I don't see where FG or FF are going to get votes back from. Who votes SD, Labour or PBP and 2 months later votes for FF or FG? Their environmental record isn't good, getting green voters isn't likely. A lot of the independents are probably getting in on the massive surplus of SF votes.
I can see why Sinn Fein wouldn't want to go again, its risky. FF and FG should be desperate to avoid it though imo
 
I don't think SF will lose their support in a week. Ireland wants change, voters are just fed up so I can't see SF voters putting FG as 1st preference.
The FF and FG voters might not even bother coming out, it could be a bloodbath
 
A new election wouldn't happen in a week though. You can probably write off any new government being formed before St Patrick's day at an absolute minimum. Longer again before it becomes clear that no government can be formed. Then there's the election campaign itself, with whatever twists, turns and dynamics that takes on.

Plus it's worth bearing in mind that this election had one of the lowest turnouts in the history of the state. Would that be the case next time? If not, who benefits?

A lot of the people who voted for SF weren't voting for them a month ago. Maybe they will still be voting for them in another few months (probably so, in fact) but it would be risky for SF to just assume that will be the case.

Suspect we'll still end up with a FF/SF/Green government, mind. It's easy for FF to rule them out now but it's a different story in 50 days time if talks with FG haven't panned out and they're staring at another GE themselves.
 
sullydnl said:
Suspect we'll still end up with a FF/SF/Green government, mind. It's easy for FF to rule them out now but it's a different story in 50 days time if talks with FG haven't panned out and they're staring at another GE themselves.
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I'd forgotten it took 70 days before they agreed on the arrangement last time around. We could be in for the long haul here too.
 
sullydnl said:
A new election wouldn't happen in a week though. You can probably write off any new government being formed before St Patrick's day at an absolute minimum. Longer again before it becomes clear that no government can be formed. Then there's the election campaign itself, with whatever twists, turns and dynamics that takes on.

Plus it's worth bearing in mind that this election had one of the lowest turnouts in the history of the state. Would that be the case next time? If not, who benefits?

A lot of the people who voted for SF weren't voting for them a month ago. Maybe they will still be voting for them in another few months (probably so, in fact) but it would be risky for SF to just assume that will be the case.

Suspect we'll still end up with a FF/SF/Green government, mind. It's easy for FF to rule them out now but it's a different story in 50 days time if talks with FG haven't panned out and they're staring at another GE themselves.
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Good point about turnout. It was a stormy Saturday - would it be the same on a milder weekday?
 
It's a load of bollocks. We have a really progressive tax system and one of the lowest tax rates on our median wage of any OECD country.
 
The issue is not whether the system is progressive or regressive. The issue is the marginal rate of tax. The Irish pay a higher rate of tax much earlier than many of their OECD counterparts.
 
I'm absolutely happy to pay relatively high levels of tax (and am certainly happy to see higher earners pay more again). The issue is how that money is then used.

Having such a terrible health service despite (I think) spending the highest amount on health per person in the OECD doesn't provide a tremendous sense of value.

Incidentally, is it not strange that we've ended up with this particular tax structure given we've been dominated by two centre-right parties for so long?
 
Chairman Woodie said:
The issue is not whether the system is progressive or regressive. The issue is the marginal rate of tax. The Irish pay a higher rate of tax much earlier than many of their OECD counterparts.
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And we pay a lot less up to 35,000 than them. I'm not sure what you want, a system that instead punishes those on min wage than those on the upper tax band?

Believe me, I've been on that upper tax band for quite a while and it is a pain in the hole getting your bonus chopped in half or getting a wage increase and it turning out to be pittance but what's the solution? The money has to come from somewhere, increasing the tax band to 50k? Great, now where do we get the money from that we just lost? Tax the rich even more, or tax the poorer more?

Oh and on a basic level, he is talking pure shite, the Nordics and countries like Belgium and the Netherlands all charge more tax than us to everyone.

The real issue is whether we get good value for our tax spent and the answer to that is a categoric no, because as Sully said, our healthcare expenses are massive yet it's in a shambles, our public transport is poor etc.
 
utdalltheway said:
What’s the point of this story being released after the election? If there was a serious point to be made, shouldn’t it be before the voting?
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Perhaps. Another opportunity to raise the issue will be in the lead up to the budget in October.

sullydnl said:
I'm absolutely happy to pay relatively high levels of tax (and am certainly happy to see higher earners pay more again). The issue is how that money is then used.

Having such a terrible health service despite (I think) spending the highest amount on health per person in the OECD doesn't provide a tremendous sense of value.

Incidentally, is it not strange that we've ended up with this particular tax structure given we've been dominated by two centre-right parties for so long?
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I agree, the higher taxes would be worth while if the money raised was better used. This is particularly true of the HSE.
 
Massive Spanner said:
And we pay a lot less up to 35,000 than them. I'm not sure what you want, a system that instead punishes those on min wage than those on the upper tax band?

Believe me, I've been on that upper tax band for quite a while and it is a pain in the hole getting your bonus chopped in half or getting a wage increase and it turning out to be pittance but what's the solution? The money has to come from somewhere, increasing the tax band to 50k? Great, now where do we get the money from that we just lost? Tax the rich even more, or tax the poorer more?

Oh and on a basic level, he is talking pure shite, the Nordics and countries like Belgium and the Netherlands all charge more tax than us to everyone.

The real issue is whether we get good value for our tax spent and the answer to that is a categoric no, because as Sully said, our healthcare expenses are massive yet it's in a shambles, our public transport is poor etc.
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You just need to scratch the surface to see how bad this country is.

I paid over 40k in tax last year and it makes me sick when I see how money is wasted.

Ive a friend and he's a detective based out of a station just outside Dublin. He is a heavy drinker and pretty much uses the police cars as a taxi. He lives 40 minutes from the station. 2 squad cars were used as couriers at Christmas. He's constantly generating expenses. They are all at it from that station and I'm sure elsewhere.

I worked in a building full of civil service types and feck me they get away with murder.

My other mate works in a hospital. More stories of chronic wastage and piss taking.

I work in Dublin and look out at the Bridge outside the 4 Courts and there is a group of 10 or so lads there every day. All day. You know the type. Grey tracksuits and black air max. Scumbags. No doubt on the dole taking handouts and living in state provided houses while putting strain on an already unfit for purpose police force.

This is where my taxes are going? feck that.

Literally just left my demanding job and took a 20k gross pay cut and im not that much less better off as my tax bill has dropped considerably.

Im a hard worker with alot to offer but im not going kill myself to pay high taxes when I see first hand how the money is spent.
 
Chairman Woodie said:
Perhaps. Another opportunity to raise the issue will be in the lead up to the budget in October.
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It’s not aimed at the voters then, who could have used that focus to force change.
Anyway, I don’t why I let it bother me, it’s not like I’m directly affected.
I think I’m just annoyed that my wife is in San Fran and she seems to time her trips around the footy and rugby fixtures. I’m not kidding, every time she’s away it’s the feckin FA cup or the international break.
 
McGrathsipan said:
You just need to scratch the surface to see how bad this country is.

I paid over 40k in tax last year and it makes me sick when I see how money is wasted.

Ive a friend and he's a detective based out of a station just outside Dublin. He is a heavy drinker and pretty much uses the police cars as a taxi. He lives 40 minutes from the station. 2 squad cars were used as couriers at Christmas. He's constantly generating expenses. They are all at it from that station and I'm sure elsewhere.

I worked in a building full of civil service types and feck me they get away with murder.

My other mate works in a hospital. More stories of chronic wastage and piss taking.

I work in Dublin and look out at the Bridge outside the 4 Courts and there is a group of 10 or so lads there every day. All day. You know the type. Grey tracksuits and black air max. Scumbags. No doubt on the dole taking handouts and living in state provided houses while putting strain on an already unfit for purpose police force.

This is where my taxes are going? feck that.

Literally just left my demanding job and took a 20k gross pay cut and im not that much less better off as my tax bill has dropped considerably.

Im a hard worker with alot to offer but im not going kill myself to pay high taxes when I see first hand how the money is spent.
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Jeez, that makes for grim reading.
Sounds like you made the right choice though.
 
utdalltheway said:
Jeez, that makes for grim reading.
Sounds like you made the right choice though.
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I think I did as im alot less stressed at work but im so annoyed with this country and how it's run.

I got a bonus at work of 16k last March and i took home about 7700 from it. Right Nearly 8 grand into the bank is amazing but 60/70 hour weeks was regualr and always on call and for the lions share to go as tax is depressing.
Not worth the effort for the tracksuit scumbags to live off me.
 
For what it’s worth, you’ll not find much better elsewhere, at least any place you’d want to live.
Here in California, I too just got a bonus and 42% was taken in taxes.
It’s enough to turn you republican, not in the Irish sense though ;)

Edit: it was 44% taken in taxes.
Considering no free university or free healthcare that’s a lot! I suppose missiles are expensive. Ffs.
 
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utdalltheway said:
For what it’s worth, you’ll not find much better elsewhere, at least any place you’d want to live.
Here in California, I too just got a bonus and 42% was taken in taxes.
It’s enough to turn you republican, not in the Irish sense though ;)
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Friend of mine lives in Switzerland, the tax he pays on his already enormous salary would make you cry.
 
How much % wise?
Anyway, as it was pointed out, it’s not the amount of taxes, it’s what’s been done with them.
Ireland is no utopian paradise but at least you’re not paying to kill people at weddings using drones. It can be frustrating to see the waste though.

Switzerland: I’ve no idea if the high taxes there make for a better society.
Let’s all move to Norway and claim asylum.
 
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Even if they just sorted the three big H's from this election (health, housing and homelessness) then I'd be content.
 
McGrathsipan said:
I think I did as im alot less stressed at work but im so annoyed with this country and how it's run.

I got a bonus at work of 16k last March and i took home about 7700 from it. Right Nearly 8 grand into the bank is amazing but 60/70 hour weeks was regualr and always on call and for the lions share to go as tax is depressing.
Not worth the effort for the tracksuit scumbags to live off me.
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Withnail said:
I'd forgotten it took 70 days before they agreed on the arrangement last time around. We could be in for the long haul here too.
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I think its going to be an FF / FG goverment , its obvious they have a pact not to join with Sinn Fein and are just waiting for Sinn Fein to realise they wont be able to get enough seats from the other parties before taking over
 
McGrathsipan said:
Im looking at it in a personal way.
I am not going to continue to bust my hole for any of them but the serial dole takers rub it in our face every day. They are as bad as dick head politicians and bent bankers
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That's a bizarre take.

Dole scroungers taking all your money is a myth.

The bankers and politicians practically bankrupted the country. The figures don't even compare
 
Withnail said:
That's a bizarre take.

Dole scroungers taking all your money is a myth.

The bankers and politicians practically bankrupted the country. The figures don't even compare
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Youre right they did. And I hate them as equally as the grey tracksuit bottom brigade.
 
Withnail said:
That's a bizarre take.

Dole scroungers taking all your money is a myth.

The bankers and politicians practically bankrupted the country. The figures don't even compare
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Correct, but the dole scroungers are more visible every day while the bankers and politician wankers are just men in suits, not hanging around street corners looking shifty.
Each of those 3 groups is to blame, not equally, but still.
It must be frustrating.
So, what’s the solution then?
The election is done, will those complicit be taken to task? Would SF for example, go after the bankers and crooked pols?
You know FF and FG won’t.
 
utdalltheway said:
How much % wise?
Anyway, as it was pointed out, it’s not the amount of taxes, it’s what’s been done with them.
Ireland is no utopian paradise but at least you’re not paying to kill people at weddings using drones. It can be frustrating to see the waste though.

Switzerland: I’ve no idea if the high taxes there make for a better society.
Let’s all move to Norway and claim asylum.
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Swiss taxes vary from Canton to canton but basically between 8-28%. In Zurich you'll pay roughly 20%.
 


This is the point that seemed to be missed in the build up to the GE: it's not Sinn Fein's past that's the problem, it's their present.
 
Why are people surprised Switzerland has low taxe rates? No public healthcare, no army to spend on (their army expenditure is only ~0.5% of GDP), low debt-to-gdp ratio and falling, and very high salaries which makes the low tax rates yield high nominal amounts of tax. Why should they be taxed more?
 
Powerful speech by her.
So, what’s next - are SF and Greens or others forming a coalition govmnt?
I haven’t been keeping up with the latest developments.

She’s dead on too that the last thing Ireland needs is a FF/FG govmnt.
 
utdalltheway said:
Powerful speech by her.
So, what’s next - are SF and Greens or others forming a coalition govmnt?
I haven’t been keeping up with the latest developments.

She’s dead on too that the last thing Ireland needs is a FF/FG govmnt.
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The alternative being IRA SF government. Crazy
 
utdalltheway said:
Powerful speech by her.
So, what’s next - are SF and Greens or others forming a coalition govmnt?
I haven’t been keeping up with the latest developments.

She’s dead on too that the last thing Ireland needs is a FF/FG govmnt.
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Don’t think the numbers are there unfortunately. Gonna either be FF/FG going in together, which will lead the people getting even more pissed off with the establishment and them giving up all pretence of being separate parties. Or there will be another election this year and we’ll take 60 plus seats!
 
FF and FG in talks to form a government. Do they think people will just not notice with all the talk around corona virus?
 
Its about time. Was the inevitable, obvious government to come out of the election.
 
Eire Red United said:
FF and FG in talks to form a government. Do they think people will just not notice with all the talk around corona virus?
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It wont happen. Nobody wants to be in government.

Austerity is likely to be back. All the pre election promises to spend big look a bit silly now.

There will have to be another election when things calm down. They will all have to come up with new economic proposals.
 
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