Impossible Draft QF - Idmanager vs Skizzo

"Which Team would win with players at their Career Peak?"

  • Team Skizzo

    Votes: 11 44.0%

  • Team Idmanager

    Votes: 14 56.0%
  • Total voters
    25
  • Poll closed .

oneniltothearsenal

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Team IDManager

Setup:

In defence we have Forster and Tresor who should be pretty complimentary in a sweeper stopper combination.
The two full backs are VR Andrade and Zebec. While Andrade would be playing a strictly defensive role helping out the CB's and midfielders when he is free, Zebec would also be helping in building up the play.

In the midfield we have Davids and Monti. Davids plays his B2B role while Monti plays the DM cum deep lying play maker. Monti's deep lying role has been really under appreciated in draft games around here. That is as solid and balanced a midfield as it gets.

In the flanks we have probably the best wing combination of this draft. Gento and Matthews need no introduction.
In the middle we have Bergkamp, who is tailor made for this role. He will be playing the second striker/Number 10 role acting as the bridge linking up the play, bringing others into the game and creating chances at will with his excellent vision. His goal scoring is a good asset as well.
Up front, we have Alberto Spencer who is not just a perfect foil for my wingers but also a great target for Bergamp is create chance for time and again.

Tactics:

We will be playing direct football getting the ball as soon as possible to the three greats behind Spencer to work their magic.
Quick play at a high tempo will be a feature of the team not giving too much time for the opponents to react and organize themselves.

The opponents full backs would be crucial to his setup considering the lack of wingers. My wingers should make it very difficult for them to get involved in the build up or attack.
While I have a lot of time for Sammer as a player, Blanc and Mcgrath wouldn't be my first choice to be playing alongside a libero with fullbacks expected to provide width.
Not that they are not great defenders, but the fit doesn't feel right with neither being great at covering out wide.

Why I think I will win?
1. I think my attack in general looks much more threatening than my opponents. Of course as Fergie said to Wenger, every one thinks they have the prettiest wife at home :)
2. Keeping the tactics aside, if I had to rank the midfielders from both the sides, I would place Sammer, Davids and Monti in one tier and Vidal/Rattin in another
3. While I think both defences, tactics aside have class players all around, I think the opponent's full backs being limited by my wingers would make his team very narrow and easier to defend against.


Team Skizzo

Formation: 5-3-2(ish)

Defensive line: Normal

GK: Vladimir Beara - complete keeper one of the best of the 50's
LB: Karl-Heinz Schnellinger - One of the best and most complete full backs of his era. Will work hard going up and down the pitch.
CB/Libero/DM: Matthias Sammer - Ballon D'or winner and leader of the defence
CB: Paul McGrath - One of the most talented central backs in the game and perfect foil for Sammer.
CB: Laurent Blanc - A technically brilliant defender. His reading of the game would be an asset as Sammer moves up the pitch.
RB: Carlos Alberto Torres - the world cup captain, renown for his offensive work would stretch the right flank and also cover the right back position in defence.
CM: Antonio Rattin - one of Boca's legends. Less strain on him defensively, freeing him up to play more of his technical game.
CM/B2B: Arthuro Vidal - in his favorite box to box role. One of the outstanding modern day midfielders with enormous engine
AM/Playmaker: Socrates - a side build around him, he'll occupy the #10 position spraying passes and running the game.
RW/ST: Jose Manuel Moreno - inside right he'll operate in a free role and combine with Carlos Alberto on the right wing.
ST: Ruud van Nistelrooy - classic #9, one of United and football legends, he'll get plenty of creativity from Moreno, Socrates and Morton.

Defence: Sturdy and complimentary unit at the back, marshaled by Sammer.
Midfield: A more favorable set up with Moreno actively participating in the midfield battle and operating in his favorite inside right zone, with cover at the back allowing Sammer to overload the midfield.
Attack: The full backs/CM's will look to exploit various avenues out wide to stretch play, and Socrates/Moreno would look for Ruud in the box, exploiting his movement and positional skills. Ruud in his favorite role inside the box and finishing chances.
 
@Invictus @Damien

Could one of you please insert a poll

"Which Team would win with players at their Career Peak?"

Team Skizzo
Team Idmanager

hide the poll until after someone votes (not sure how the options work) thanks

@Skizzo @idmanager best of luck!
 
Good luck @idmanager

Quick response to some of your opening post. Your assessment of the fullbacks really downplays not only their abilities, but their intelligence. Both were considered some of the best full backs of their era, and for good reason. They won’t be caught up at the opposite corner flag. They’re intelligent and tactically aware enough to understand when runs are on or not.

Vidal played as a wingback for Chile at times, so he’s comfortable moving out wide at times, and Moreno was in his comfort zone in those pockets of space out wide right, and dropping deep.

As for the center backs...Blanc was a fantastic reader of the game, and McGrath needs no more of my spamming to highlight his defensive qualities. They aren’t some “last ditch options” because everyone else bombed off upfield.

With that in mind. Socrates would love that pocket of space between the defense and midfield. I assume Monti would be tasked with picking him up? If so, it leaves space for Vidal to push up into as well, especially as you try quick counters and aren’t set up yourself for the blow back.
 
Skizzo said:
Good luck @idmanager
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Good luck to you too mate.

Skizzo said:
Quick response to some of your opening post. Your assessment of the fullbacks really downplays not only their abilities, but their intelligence. Both were considered some of the best full backs of their era, and for good reason. They won’t be caught up at the opposite corner flag. They’re intelligent and tactically aware enough to understand when runs are on or not.
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Oh, I don't down play them at all mate. They were great players alright. But even the best full backs in the world have had their attacking or build up game completely cut off against the greatest wingers. I am not saying they would be foolish to be caught way up the pitch. I am saying their ability to provide width and help with the build up will be really hindered.

Skizzo said:
As for the center backs...Blanc was a fantastic reader of the game, and McGrath needs no more of my spamming to highlight his defensive qualities. They aren’t some “last ditch options” because everyone else bombed off upfield.
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Below is what I mentioned in the OP mate. I have already said they are great defenders. I mentioned my reservations about them being in a libero + attacking full backs providing width setup. I am sure most would agree that Mcgrath and Blanc were not the best fits for covering out wide and letting the libero slot in the middle. Tresor for example is a great defender, but even he won't be high up in my list if I chose a setup like yours. It doesn't undermine their quality, but their ability to cover all the blanks of the setup.

oneniltothearsenal said:
While I have a lot of time for Sammer as a player, Blanc and Mcgrath wouldn't be my first choice to be playing alongside a libero with fullbacks expected to provide width.
Not that they are not great defenders, but the fit doesn't feel right with neither being great at covering out wide.
Click to expand...


Skizzo said:
Socrates would love that pocket of space between the defense and midfield. I assume Monti would be tasked with picking him up? If so, it leaves space for Vidal to push up into as well, especially as you try quick counters and aren’t set up yourself for the blow back.
Click to expand...

Just requoting this in case you missed this in the OP.

oneniltothearsenal said:
While Andrade would be playing a strictly defensive role helping out the CB's and midfielders when he is free, Zebec would also be helping in building up the play
Click to expand...

I hardly think Vidal would find himself in lots of space on that side with Monti and Andrade both defensive minded and hardly moving up vertically. That side as far as I can see is jam packed.
 
Aesthetic preference, but @idmanager's team should be 4-4-2 and not 4-2-3-1. Bergkamp will obviously drop back into the hole, but with that personnel it should be a 4-4-2 (close to perfection).

Will wait a bit, but I'm leaning towards idmanager
 
i thought skizzo would stay in the same system, not sure i like Blanc here
 
harms said:
Aesthetic preference, but @idmanager's team should be 4-4-2 and not 4-2-3-1. Bergkamp will obviously drop back into the hole, but with that personnel it should be a 4-4-2 (close to perfection).

Will wait a bit, but I'm leaning towards idmanager
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Aye, it should ideally be closer to a 4-4-2 with Bergkamp slightly behind Spencer but I have a weird thing about symmetry.
Hopefully still gets the point across though.
 
Brilliant team from both. No obvious tactical flaws.

Don't really like Skizzo's wingback pairing. He probably would need more attacking output than they are known for.
As harms said, prefer Bergkamp as Second Striker than a proper #10.

Sammer vs Bergkamp is evenly matches, I should say.

Dead even, though I'm slightly partial to idmanager's team.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
i thought skizzo would stay in the same system, not sure i like Blanc here
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Same system wouldn’t have worked due to restrictions. Too much exchanging to do at once.

As for the system, there’s a bit of an overlap in roles, because I didn’t want to restrict Blanc to a “stopper” of sorts, because he’s much better than that, and it’s not really his strength. Having him play the role here his reading of the game benefits is in terms of Matthews coming inside over there, covering for Schnellinger. Mcgrath plays more of the straight stopper role, and Sammer will have the freedom to move up to press Bergkamp defensively, or push forwards with the ball. Blanc gives an alternate option to play from behind, distributing out wide or playing it on.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
As harms said, prefer Bergkamp as Second Striker than a proper #10.
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He is playing the second striker role mate who would still drop in the hole and link up play.
Below is what the OP mentions.
oneniltothearsenal said:
In the middle we have Bergkamp, who is tailor made for this role. He will be playing the second striker/Number 10 role acting as the bridge linking up the play, bringing others into the game and creating chances at will with his excellent vision. His goal scoring is a good asset as well.
Click to expand...

You can never under estimate his play from the deep though. Below is one video I liked watching the most after picking him yesterday.

 
Skizzo said:
I didn’t want to restrict Blanc to a “stopper” of sorts, because he’s much better than that, and it’s not really his strength. Having him play the role here his reading of the game benefits is in terms of Matthews coming inside over there, covering for Schnellinger
Click to expand...

I am not really sold on the covering for Schnellinger part mate.
For starters he was slow and can get caught out in really bad positions if he steps out wide to cover for a wing back. Especially against a tricky customer like Matthews.
Blanc's game was more about reading the game than stepping out which is essential IMO for a wide CB
 
idmanager said:
I am not really sold on the covering for Schnellinger part mate.
For starters he was slow and can get caught out in really bad positions if he steps out wide to cover for a wing back. Especially against a tricky customer like Matthews.
Blanc's game was more about reading the game than stepping out which is essential IMO for a wide CB
Click to expand...

I wouldn’t be relying on his pace, nor do I expect him to be defending out wide by the touchline. I understand the point you’re making, but it’s not what I’d be asking of him.
 
Skizzo said:
I wouldn’t be relying on his pace, nor do I expect him to be defending out wide by the touchline. I understand the point you’re making, but it’s not what I’d be asking of him.
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Aye, I understand you do not want him to be a Maldini to a Carlos but then I do feel he will be a soft target if he is to cover for the German.
I could see Mcgrath doing a better job than Blanc though in the same role on the other side.
 
idmanager said:
Aye, I understand you do not want him to be a Maldini to a Carlos but then I do feel he will be a soft target if he is to cover for the German.
I could see Mcgrath doing a better job than Blanc though in the same role on the other side.
Click to expand...

That’s mostly why they’re positioned as they are, In terms of your wingers and the threats they offer.

Bed time for me now :lol: I’ll be around later. Good luck again mate!
 
This isn’t the worst idea.. First hour or so managers discussing the game before the poll goes up.. People just decide without much discussion otherwise :wenger:
 
Skizzo has a better defensive base but voted for idmanager who has a better allocation of offensive players IMO

Schnellinger + Vidal to animate the left flank is not the most sexy duo in offensive terms

Both teams are better than mine but we are invited to choose

As usual, no significant gap between the proposed teams

Monti = Rattin = Lazzatti = Pluskal = Rossi =.... = :boring:
 
Idmanager has drafted really well, especially at the bottom end of the snake. Love the complementarity between the centre-half, central midfield and striker partnerships.

For Skizzo I wasn't as clear at first glance what the tactic was, but looking at the head-to-head battles it becomes quite straightforward. Can see plenty of cancelling out of the main attacking threats due to the individual defensive quality. Very astute to overload the central and inside-right channel, leaving space for Idm to build up on the right of the defence where there is little creative threat. Moreno's presence also keeps Zebec in check as well. And you could see Sammer occasionally venturing forward away from Denis and causing further overload.
 
Tuppet said:
He can't change his mind anyway. Vote is not changeable in the poll.
Click to expand...

Moby said:
I almost mistakenly voted for Skizzo as I assumed that the options in the poll are in the same order as the graphics!
Click to expand...

My apologies, I hadn't requested a poll before so wasn't sure of all the options. I think voters can change votes now though
 
Two superb teams. @Skizzo seems intent on stockpiling as many of my favourite players as possible in McGrath, Ruud and Sammer. I love Socrates too, and Moreno along with Pedernera are probably the two pre-footage players that intrigue me most. On the other hand I'm a sucker for a team with classic wingers, and Gento/Matthews would be top class even in a restriction-free draft.
 
Had a busy day at work and looks like skizzo was the same..not too much to discuss in the game though with two straight forward setups.

Thanks for your thoughts Ecstatic, Gio, Pat.

Indnyc said:
This isn’t the worst idea.. First hour or so managers discussing the game before the poll goes up.. People just decide without much discussion otherwise :wenger:
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I agree. Accidentally sensible.
 
I’ll take this last portion just to point out part of the X factor we have in that with idmanager basically falling into a 4231/442 setup depending on how you see Bergkamp’s positioning with the wingers etc, that Sócrates would draw the attention of Monti, forcing him to drop back closer to his goal. Meaning we can force a bit of an overload at times with not only Vidal (who was no stranger to grabbing a goal or two) but with Sammer bursting up field and grabbing control of the game as needed.



Not to mention, Vidal was a box to box in a true sense of the word, and might be underrated as a “modern” player, but he’s willing to put his body on the line, and would be a huge asset in helping contain the opposition threat. We’d have 7 players willing to work defensively, and then also Moreno willing to work back as well, so there’s no shortage or defending going on to contain Idmanager’s impressive array of attackers.

 
I dont think Schnellinger offers to much going ahead mate. You would definetely need someone more attacking minded for Vidal to work with. Especially when they are running into a.zone marshalled by Monti and Andrade.

Also I wouldnt put Monti and Socrates always in a 1 v 1 battle. Davids is the box to box partner every DM would love to have alongside.
 
And with the defensive setup we’ve established, it gives Sócrates and Moreno the freedom to move around in that final third and link up in a variety of ways. Sócrates would drop in between those lines and link up with the runners from deep, as well as exploit that bit of space between the midfield and defense.



Obviously there’s limited footage of Moreno, but comment after comment from people that saw him playing, and the standing he has from South American fans/players he played with waxing lyrical about the talent he had and the work he put in on the field. Hardly the obligatory YouTube video used to being seen, but you can see even in this the touch, movement etc he had.



And as I said, with the players we can have behind the ball, if we only got one clear cut chance all game, there’s few players you’d want that to fall to, and this man is one of them. How many people have bet houses on him banging one in.

 
idmanager said:
I dont think Schnellinger offers to much going ahead mate. You would definetely need someone more attacking minded for Vidal to work with. Especially when they are running into a.zone marshalled by Monti and Andrade.

Also I wouldnt put Monti and Socrates always in a 1 v 1 battle. Davids is the box to box partner every DM would love to have alongside.
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He’s not a purely attacking wingback in the mold of a Marcelo type, no, but they didn’t nickname him the Volkswagen for nothing. Physical, hard working, and would be busting his ass all game. I’m not asking him to be a primary attacking outlet, it’s just a matter of having outlets in each channel.
 
Skizzo said:
He’s not a purely attacking wingback in the mold of a Marcelo type, no, but they didn’t nickname him the Volkswagen for nothing. Physical, hard working, and would be busting his ass all game. I’m not asking him to be a primary attacking outlet, it’s just a matter of having outlets in each channel.
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I would still classify him as less on attack-defence balance than Carlos Alberto who looks tailor made for your formation. Schnellinger is a bit more tilted to the defensive side of the game AFAIK.
While Matthews surely is not having a free ride facing Schnellinger 2 games in a row, I am pretty sure Andrade is bored as feck too.
Not a Carlos, but maybe a Faachetti or Nilton would have done much more justice to the role. Heck if I may even add, Zebec would be more suited as well.
 
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