How Shall Fergie Re-Build Our Team?

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Well, the heading practically gives it all away.

Fergie, as we all now know, has NOT stated that he WILL re-build the team. But he has opened the door for such actions. He will MAYBE do it, and what will eventually spur such decisions is always: results.

IF he decides to just that, WHAT do you think he should DO? What needs to be done to turn the tide?

Is it just a matter of waiting for the return of our injured players, is it a simpler matter of lacking motivation in a few players, or is much more drastical methods required?

What do you believe?
 
too soon to tell.

we need to give time for players to recover. try to go back to 4-4-2 (or 4-4-1-1 where we utilize the wings a lot more) then see if things change. only then will i say it's fair to say we need to make any changes or think about any rebuilding.
 
Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>too soon to tell.

we need to give time for players to recover. try to go back to 4-4-2 (or 4-4-1-1 where we utilize the wings a lot more) then see if things change. only then will i say it's fair to say we need to make any changes or think about any rebuilding.</strong><hr></blockquote>

IMO, the players recovering from injury will make litle or no difference. It seems to me that some of the current squad have forgotten what wearing the red shirt means. Perhaps they've won it all now, and have lost the hunger.
After his comments, I can see Giggs days being numbered, and possibly the Nevilles. As for Roy Keane, I think the jury is still out.
I can't see wholesale changes, but certainly some big names will go, to be replaced by a combination of youth, and big names.
The revolution is about to begin! <img src="graemlins/nervous.gif" border="0" alt="[Nervous]" /> <img src="graemlins/nervous.gif" border="0" alt="[Nervous]" />
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Originally posted by andy27457:
<strong>

The revolution is about to begin! <img src="graemlins/nervous.gif" border="0" alt="[Nervous]" /> <img src="graemlins/nervous.gif" border="0" alt="[Nervous]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

i wouldn't go as far as thinkin it will be a revolution though.. this wouldn't happen until SAF leaves.. it'll be a rebuild.. he'll keep certain important players.. the squad will still comprise of a lot of loyal players.. it'll be the same story from the robbo days all over again.. we're not going to be like Real or Milan anytime soon.
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Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

i wouldn't go as far as thinkin it will be a revolution though.. this wouldn't happen until SAF leaves.. it'll be a rebuild.. he'll keep certain important players.. the squad will still comprise of a lot of loyal players.. it'll be the same story from the robbo days all over again.. we're not going to be like Real or Milan anytime soon.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Depends how pissed off SAF is, and what he's got up his sleeve. Remember, He's binned big stars in bulk before, and he will do it again if he thinks he needs to. SAF's pride won't let him leave his successor to do the job!
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Originally posted by andy27457:
<strong>

Depends how pissed off SAF is, and what he's got up his sleeve. Remember, He's binned big stars in bulk before, and he will do it again if he thinks he needs to. SAF's pride won't let him leave his successor to do the job!</strong><hr></blockquote>

you have a point about his pride. but he surely would not off the head of the player he has backed for years. letting go of keane is as possible as letting go of veron - which is never going to happen.

you are right about his pride, and that's why he won't sell off keane. he'll let go of stars who he doesn't have good comments for. which at this time are giggs, the nevs, and barthez, chadwick, and maybe beckham. but making becks captain second to keane proves that becks has a good future here.

he has praised all others, from blanc, rio, scholes, keane, butt, scholes, veron, RVN, forlan, a few kids of United.
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This whole issue of Fergie rebuilding a team is just a smokescreen for his own current shortcomings as a manager. What has he been doing these last few years ? He's spent over 70m on new players to replace almost half the 1999 team. The rest, apart from Keane and Ole are reaching their peaks in terms of their careers. So what needs rebuilding ? A couple of additions yes but surely not wholesale changes. The problem he faces now is that his systems are not working. They are producing a blend of dull and unimaginative football which is unlikely to get us anywhere. It has also had the effect of demoralising the team which is as used to success as we are. Although we have become harder to beat, or at least we're shipping in less goals, this has come at the expense of our traditional attacking and entertaining style. Fergie appears to be saying that unless you adapt to my way of thinking then you could be out. That's fine if his systems are going to work but if they don't we're in trouble. He says he'll see what happens at the end of this season before making decisions. Does that mean we could be in a state of limbo until then? Time may not be on his side.
 
Firstly i think we need to stick to a 4-4-2 formation as it has brought the most success to us. A recent study into Europian football found that 70% of winning teams in the last 20 years have employed this system aswell.
Secondly, continuity at the back is essential. Just look at Liverpool's sticky patch since loosing Henchoz. For this reason Ferguson needs to admit blanc does not have what it takes to complete, and try to decide who partners Ferdinand (my own choice O'Shea with brown right back)
As for the sale of players:

Phil Neville- needs to go, as performances have been consistantly under par since 1998.

Blanc- bye, bye

Fortune- never united class.

Chadwick- too weak in possesion, gives ball away, has had static improvement for last two years.

Fabian- We have an already shaky defence, don't need more uncertainty at the back. Could get a reasonable price for him whilst not having to put up with that "heart in the mouth" feeling anymore.

Veron-too much of a luxury.Gives ball away with startling regularity, lacks passion and form in P.L. Commands a good transfer fee.

Ole- A united legend now no more than a bench player as too slow and doesn't bring the same threat anymore. Should stay though.

Really, the core side can only guarantee Ruud, Giggs, Beckham,Scoles,Ferdinand, Keane.

I just wonder if the people in power will face matters head on or shirk their responsibilities to both the fans and themselves.

This is the richest, greatest club in the world we need to start acting like it, both in our play and in the business of bringing the right people in.
 
I think a couple of basically straight swaps would be in order.

Say for instance, Ryan Giggs goes for 20mil to whoever, then we go and spend about 15mil on Damien Duff almost immediatelty. Then Veron to go for 15mil, and we spend that on Cisse. Hopefully aswell we can sort something out with Lazio for the remainder of the Stam fee, hopefully 5mil + Juan Pablo Sorin. We bring in Escude for another 5mil and that would sort out the left back position, and prevent Silvestre holding us to ransom. I hear we linked with Diop so if we could bring him in, he'd operate a similar role to Keane. I think if we work out a replacement for Keane before he actually has to go then we wont be in the situation where we think "Oh feck, Keane's gone now what do we do". Plus, make Kieran Richardson and Daniel Nardiello more prominent in the first team, aswell as gently blooding Mads Timm in

Simple, natch ;)
 
Originally posted by Julian Denny:
<strong>This whole issue of Fergie rebuilding a team is just a smokescreen for his own current shortcomings as a manager. What has he been doing these last few years ? He's spent over 70m on new players to replace almost half the 1999 team. The rest, apart from Keane and Ole are reaching their peaks in terms of their careers. So what needs rebuilding ? A couple of additions yes but surely not wholesale changes. The problem he faces now is that his systems are not working. They are producing a blend of dull and unimaginative football which is unlikely to get us anywhere. It has also had the effect of demoralising the team which is as used to success as we are. Although we have become harder to beat, or at least we're shipping in less goals, this has come at the expense of our traditional attacking and entertaining style. Fergie appears to be saying that unless you adapt to my way of thinking then you could be out. That's fine if his systems are going to work but if they don't we're in trouble. He says he'll see what happens at the end of this season before making decisions. Does that mean we could be in a state of limbo until then? Time may not be on his side.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Correct. It's not just the players, in fact the manager has to be largely blamed for Utd's slip from their usual high standards.
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Utter shit.Oh how we have short memories...Any manager would have signed Veron if they had the chance.Its not the managers fault thar Veron hasn`t adapted as quick as he should.Last season United won nothing for the first time in how many years.Right up until we lost Beckham through injury United were pushing for the League and a spot in the Cl final.This season we havn`t had any luck,Sir Alex has not had the chance to field his best side all season.Players like Giggs, Scholes,Beckham and Butt have not reached their peak.The defence of Rio,O`Shea,Brown and Silvestre will be the envy of Europe.With a mid field of Keane, Giggs, Beckham,Scholes,Veron and Butt to choose from its frightening.When Ole and Rudd find the touch again a lot 0f people will eat humble pie.Happy days are here again.
 
Originally posted by Lover of Football:
<strong>Utter shit.Oh how we have short memories...Any manager would have signed Veron if they had the chance.Its not the managers fault thar Veron hasn`t adapted as quick as he should.Last season United won nothing for the first time in how many years.Right up until we lost Beckham through injury United were pushing for the League and a spot in the Cl final.This season we havn`t had any luck,Sir Alex has not had the chance to field his best side all season.Players like Giggs, Scholes,Beckham and Butt have not reached their peak.The defence of Rio,O`Shea,Brown and Silvestre will be the envy of Europe.With a mid field of Keane, Giggs, Beckham,Scholes,Veron and Butt to choose from its frightening.When Ole and Rudd find the touch again a lot 0f people will eat humble pie.Happy days are here again.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Utter shite?

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
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Originally posted by Lover of Football:
<strong>Utter shit.Oh how we have short memories...Any manager would have signed Veron if they had the chance.Its not the managers fault thar Veron hasn`t adapted as quick as he should.Last season United won nothing for the first time in how many years.Right up until we lost Beckham through injury United were pushing for the League and a spot in the Cl final.This season we havn`t had any luck,Sir Alex has not had the chance to field his best side all season.Players like Giggs, Scholes,Beckham and Butt have not reached their peak.The defence of Rio,O`Shea,Brown and Silvestre will be the envy of Europe.With a mid field of Keane, Giggs, Beckham,Scholes,Veron and Butt to choose from its frightening.When Ole and Rudd find the touch again a lot 0f people will eat humble pie.Happy days are here again.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Apart from the first few words, I have no problem at all with what you have said. In fact you support my contention that there is not a whole lot wrong with our squad except that it needs strengthening by one maybe two. We have marvellous players including Veron. Howver, if that is true why did SAF strongly intimate that he may have to rebuild the side and what about Keane's contention that injuries are no excuse and that we should have been able to beat West Ham with the side we put out. There's no doubt about it, something is wrong.
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What i think the coach should do in rebuilding is get rid of the underpeformers, the big mouths and lastly the dead would. Underpeformers such as Ryan Giggs and David becks. I call them slack for the fact that i have watch them in there peak and they have been playing far from it for to long in a top team like UNITED look you can have afew bad games but not a bad year, go somwere else and play one good game a month.Going with those two should be Silvestre just not world class. Roy keane my favourite player a real hard man dnt feck with me attitude i love that i realy do, but when i see him pushing and embarrising his own teamates it's beyond HARD it's sad. M
 
SORRY ABOUT THAT feck UP. were was i maybe it is time for the great man to go? for MANUTD's sake. Lastly the Nev brothers , Barthy , Blanks if you guys love United then ask for a release so you can be replaced with players up to the pace. sorry if ive been harsh but that's just my opinion. Replacement's should be hungry to be the best and want to be rememberd for being another great team in Red.
 
Originally posted by Julian Denny:
<strong>This whole issue of Fergie rebuilding a team is just a smokescreen for his own current shortcomings as a manager. What has he been doing these last few years ? He's spent over 70m on new players to replace almost half the 1999 team. The rest, apart from Keane and Ole are reaching their peaks in terms of their careers. So what needs rebuilding ? A couple of additions yes but surely not wholesale changes. The problem he faces now is that his systems are not working. They are producing a blend of dull and unimaginative football which is unlikely to get us anywhere. It has also had the effect of demoralising the team which is as used to success as we are. Although we have become harder to beat, or at least we're shipping in less goals, this has come at the expense of our traditional attacking and entertaining style. Fergie appears to be saying that unless you adapt to my way of thinking then you could be out. That's fine if his systems are going to work but if they don't we're in trouble. He says he'll see what happens at the end of this season before making decisions. Does that mean we could be in a state of limbo until then? Time may not be on his side.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i agree with you that SAF is too stubborn to accept the facts right in front of him. But i also do believe he has a vision.

Since he will never ever listen to any of our opinions it may be fair to let him run his time out - while he still has it - doing what he wants to do.

He has done us all proud for 15 years, what's with giving him maybe 1 or 2 more to turn things around?

We HAVE become harder to beat. The new system he employed helped even the mediocre set of defenders we have (The Nev brothers, the slow Blanc, the young Brown and JOS, the much criticized Silvestre and Barthez). He has made this defence look much stronger as a team. You could not compare them individually with anyone in the EPL or in Europe - except for maybe JOS and Rio, but as a team we have right now conceded the least goals along with Arsenal in the EPL - that's pretty good IMO.

we lack creativity up front right now. that's certainly the area that needs solving first atm. something is just not clicking. Veron has been improving and we're still doing very fine in the ECL so there's no need to rush into rebuilding or throwing SAF out.

The results he produce by the end of the year will give us a clue about his future. So what if we remain in limbo? we have been in limbo every now and then for the past 15 years with SAF in the seat.. from SAF almost being sacked, from SAF having so many problems with so many key players, from almost not having won the Trebel. why not just one more time?

SAF should definitely be held responsible and i don't think it's fair that he only blames the players and not his own tactics, but i think he's looking for some faith of his own fans. He's looking for that confidence.. if he comes out to say he has made mistakes in his career then we'll probably lose respect for him at some point and he'll eventually step down or be sacked. but this is too soon in the rebuilding process to tell. A new manager will probably take the same amout of time to rebuild - right now i don't trust anybody else other than him. maybe in 1-2 years a manager like McClaren will become available to take over and we'll be able to say confidently then that we want SAF out.
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You simply can't take for example Becks and the Nevilles and say they are slackers or whatever. That's simply not true. I think those three give all they've got in terms of effort in every match they play. Whether that is good enough is another matter. The same could be said about everyone else except of course Roy, who has other shortcomings unfortunately. The major problem is consistency. We've not had real consistency of performance from the individuals within the team in the last two seasons. Giggs is a prime example of this. On his day he can destroy anyone and be an absolute match winner and a delight to watch. Then he can be frustratingly poor at times. Of the current team only Paul Scholes is showing any consistency. I'm sorry to say this again but it's down to the manager and his coach to ensure the level of performance is up to the required standard on a regular basis. I'm not sure bringing in a whole lot of new players will necessarily achieve that.
 
Originally posted by Julian Denny:
<strong>You simply can't take for example Becks and the Nevilles and say they are slackers or whatever. That's simply not true. I think those three give all they've got in terms of effort in every match they play. Whether that is good enough is another matter. The same could be said about everyone else except of course Roy, who has other shortcomings unfortunately. The major problem is consistency. We've not had real consistency of performance from the individuals within the team in the last two seasons. Giggs is a prime example of this. On his day he can destroy anyone and be an absolute match winner and a delight to watch. Then he can be frustratingly poor at times. Of the current team only Paul Scholes is showing any consistency. I'm sorry to say this again but it's down to the manager and his coach to ensure the level of performance is up to the required standard on a regular basis. I'm not sure bringing in a whole lot of new players will necessarily achieve that.</strong><hr></blockquote>

o absolutely SAF is responsible for this and the players do not deserve to be slagged off. i'm not slagging off the players either. i don't agree with offloading our stars at all. i'd prefer that we bring in few new faces to increase competitions for places..

i'm suggesting that maybe we wait until SAF realize his mistakes - without even having to tell us - and revert to the tactics his players can play best at. but this will take time. only persisting poor results will show him this.

atm i don't see a good replacement for him, just like how i don't see good replacements for keane or giggs, or beckham.. so we be patient.. give them chances to improve..

scholes adapted to his new position, giggs and becks clearly haven't.. i think SAF maybe frustrated with this. and clearly giggs seems frustrated with this. so we'll see who and what will prevail..

1. the 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 where wings are used more.

2. SAF version of 4-4-1-1
3. SAF rebuilding schemes.
4. SAF being sacked.

i don't see any more alternatives.. but i surely hope it doesn't come to the 4th one as like i said, right now i don't see anyone better than him.
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Fergie has already hinted about some change in next summer. The size of the change will only depend on one thing -- the final result of this season. If the result is better than last season, Fergie will continue to believe his tactic is okay and will only add one or two new players to the current team, while retaining all current big names. If the result is any worse than last season (such as: out of top 3 in EPL), some significant change will happen. Fergie has only two years left as manager and he will certainly do anything to make sure he won't leave the job when United is at the lowest point.
 
My proposal for the new buys in January are

--------------fernandez-------------------
da silva ---hierro---bujia-------fernandez
figo------zidane-------hernandez-----lopez
---------sanchez-------ronaldo------------

Then persuade the PLC that white is a better colour than red for the home kit.

next ban anyone who as supported the club since childhood..............

and all the muppets will be happy.
;)
 
Originally posted by sin65:
<strong>My proposal for the new buys in January are

--------------fernandez-------------------
da silva ---hierro---bujia-------fernandez
figo------zidane-------hernandez-----lopez
---------sanchez-------ronaldo------------

Then persuade the PLC that white is a better colour than red for the home kit.

next ban anyone who as supported the club since childhood..............

and all the muppets will be happy.
;) </strong><hr></blockquote>


i noticed you have two fernandez in your team! surely the PLC won't be happy about it as shirt sales won't increase when the other fernandez performs well as some fans already have the other fernandez shirts! not a sound business plan IMO <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
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