How Good Was Redondo?

Raees

Pythagoras in Boots
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
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After his performances against United enshrined him in footballing folklore, I was always keen to find out just how good he must have been. To dominate a midfield of Scholes and Keane in their relative prime, you must be pretty special. On closer inspection, it seems Redondo did indeed possess galactic talent especially on the ball but he was also quite lazy and inconsistent especially on the domestic front - hence Real's inconsistent form in the League and his defensive game was suspect against players such as Hagi/Valderrama although in the latter stage of his career, he did improve. Take nothing away though, he was a breathtaking ball carrier and that run and skill against Henning Berg was no fluke.

What was particularly interesting about Redondo was that whilst he was very much in need of box to box destroyer types to do the hard yards... i.e. Simeone, Luis Enrique and Karembeu (a trait most deep lying playmakers seem to have) - but he was also at his best when he had creative players who took control of the final third and he just had to play a secondary role, feeding them the ball (his relationships with Maradona and Laudrup were sizzling, and his reliance on players like Raul (who was not a striker!) and Seedorf was evident).

Anyway those that were old enough to watch him more regularly in his prime or early days in La Liga, how highly thought of was he before that performance against United in 2000 and where would you rank him amongst his own generation as well as on the all time front?

@Invictus @Joga Bonito @harms @Gio @Edgar Allan Pillow
 
He was what I hoped Rabiot could become, shines in much the same kind of set ups as you pointed out, just a perfect player to bring balance to midfield.
 
Raees said:


After his performances against United enshrined him in footballing folklore, I was always keen to find out just how good he must have been. To dominate a midfield of Scholes and Keane in their relative prime, you must be pretty special. On closer inspection, it seems Redondo did indeed possess galactic talent especially on the ball but he was also quite lazy and inconsistent especially on the domestic front - hence Real's inconsistent form in the League and his defensive game was suspect against players such as Hagi/Valderrama although in the latter stage of his career, he did improve. Take nothing away though, he was a breathtaking ball carrier and that run and skill against Henning Berg was no fluke.

What was particularly interesting about Redondo was that whilst he was very much in need of box to box destroyer types to do the hard yards... i.e. Simeone, Luis Enrique and Karembeu (a trait most deep lying playmakers seem to have) - but he was also at his best when he had creative players who took control of the final third and he just had to play a secondary role, feeding them the ball (his relationships with Maradona and Laudrup were sizzling, and his reliance on players like Raul (who was not a striker!) and Seedorf was evident).

Anyway those that were old enough to watch him more regularly in his prime or early days in La Liga, how highly thought of was he before that performance against United in 2000 and where would you rank him amongst his own generation as well as on the all time front?

@Invictus @Joga Bonito @harms @Gio @Edgar Allan Pillow
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That video is unwatchable
 
@Raees I think he was exceptional before injuries ruined his career.

I think calling him lazy is unfair. I don't recall Redondo being any worse than someone like Emmanuel Petit, who played in a similar role. He wasn't an all action box to box midfielder. However, he didn't have to be. That wasn't what was expected of him.

Redondo had really good timing, very good at interceptions. Also very good at putting his body between the ball and the man pressing him. His dribbling from deep made him a confident ball carrier. Also, while he wasn't Paul Scholes, he was plenty fine calling the tune in midfield. The first time I saw him play was USA 94, in that game where Maradona did the eyes. Playing next to Cholo Simeone the burden of getting the ball forward through midfield was on him. Didn't seem like he needed someone doing the passing for him.
 
Just remembered when they cited Fernando Gago as next Redondo :lol:
 
I appreciated him more when going back and watching older games. At the time the points you make about his defensive issues stood out to me, he struggled notably against quite a few players i was trying to follow at the time, Mostovoy always gave him a really hard time individually, culminating in a 5-1 game around about 97/98. Rewatching from the perspective of him being more of a balancing, supportive creative 8 was when i was able to better see his qualities. At the time he did have a massive reputation as a great midfield engine and dominator in both phases, so was probably expecting too much.
 
Demyanenko_square_jaw said:
I appreciated him more when going back and watching older games. At the time the points you make about his defensive issues stood out to me, he struggled notably against quite a few players i was trying to follow at the time, Mostovoy always gave him a really hard time individually, culminating in a 5-1 game around about 97/98. Rewatching from the perspective of him being more of a balancing, supportive creative 8 was when i was able to better see his qualities. At the time he did have a massive reputation as a great midfield engine and dominator in both phases, so was probably expecting too much.
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Reading the chronicles, that game was a collective struggle. Guti had a terrible game and was subbed in the 27th minute, when the score was 3-0 up for Celta. Seedorf was subbed in the 70th minute. Panucci was seen as especially indolent that day and Roberto Carlos was missing. Barcelona had just won the league mathematically the day before and players were completely unmotivated. Typical from Madrid in the league when they don't stand a chance btw.

Also, Galicia (Deportivo and Celta) was a complete a nightmare for Madrid in the 90s and 00s.

Celta played that day with Michel Salgado, Caceres, Makelele, Mazinho, Karpin, Mostovoi, Revivo and Penev among others. That's a hell of a team, those leagues in the late 90s and early 00s were truely balanced.
 
I thought he's a lot like Kroos with more flair and less in other departments. :drool:
 
GatoLoco said:
Reading the chronicles, that game was a collective struggle. Guti had a terrible game and was subbed in the 27th minute, when the score was 3-0 up for Celta. Seedorf was subbed in the 70th minute. Panucci was seen as especially indolent that day and Roberto Carlos was missing. Barcelona had just won the league mathematically the day before and players were completely unmotivated. Typical from Madrid in the league when they don't stand a chance btw.

Also, Galicia (Deportivo and Celta) was a complete a nightmare for Madrid in the 90s and 00s.

Celta played that day with Michel Salgado, Caceres, Makelele, Mazinho, Karpin, Mostovoi, Revivo and Penev among others. That's a hell of a team, those leagues in the late 90s and early 00s were truely balanced.
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oh yeah i didn't mean to imply the 5-1 was entirely down to him, just that it was part of things that probably unfairly made a big impression on me, relative to his reputation. As you say Celta was a strong team at the time, one that could beat anyone when on their better form.
 
Pexbo said:
That video is unwatchable
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Think he is the same clueless yank that has made several of these unwatchable "tactical analysis" videos on several greats where he just ends up reading from wikipedia without providing any context and basically admits he have never seen them play.

No idea if he has an audience but if he does, at the very least he introduces young kids to a lot of great players
 
He was very good, but he's one of these players that people who want to sound like they know more about football than others love to wax lyrical about. To that end, he's been massively overhyped.

At his peak, he was one of the better midfielders in the world, but never the best. It was also a short peak. He was inconsistent too, which people don't like to talk about. He was good, but it's always been strange to me that people talk about him as if he was one of the all time greats. He wasn't.
 
Raees said:


After his performances against United enshrined him in footballing folklore, I was always keen to find out just how good he must have been. To dominate a midfield of Scholes and Keane in their relative prime, you must be pretty special. On closer inspection, it seems Redondo did indeed possess galactic talent especially on the ball but he was also quite lazy and inconsistent especially on the domestic front - hence Real's inconsistent form in the League and his defensive game was suspect against players such as Hagi/Valderrama although in the latter stage of his career, he did improve. Take nothing away though, he was a breathtaking ball carrier and that run and skill against Henning Berg was no fluke.

What was particularly interesting about Redondo was that whilst he was very much in need of box to box destroyer types to do the hard yards... i.e. Simeone, Luis Enrique and Karembeu (a trait most deep lying playmakers seem to have) - but he was also at his best when he had creative players who took control of the final third and he just had to play a secondary role, feeding them the ball (his relationships with Maradona and Laudrup were sizzling, and his reliance on players like Raul (who was not a striker!) and Seedorf was evident).

Anyway those that were old enough to watch him more regularly in his prime or early days in La Liga, how highly thought of was he before that performance against United in 2000 and where would you rank him amongst his own generation as well as on the all time front?

@Invictus @Joga Bonito @harms @Gio @Edgar Allan Pillow
Click to expand...

Are these your videos?
 
FeedTheGoat said:
Think he is the same clueless yank that has made several of these unwatchable "tactical analysis" videos on several greats where he just ends up reading from wikipedia without providing any context and basically admits he have never seen them play.

No idea if he has an audience but if he does, at the very least he introduces young kids to a lot of great players
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Yeah really not good. Half assed at best really.
 
An exceptional talent who generally had average performances. He didnt often play as well as the game against us when I saw him, many better midfielders performane and career wise at the time for me....Reminds me of Veloso really
 
Raees said:


After his performances against United enshrined him in footballing folklore, I was always keen to find out just how good he must have been. To dominate a midfield of Scholes and Keane in their relative prime, you must be pretty special. On closer inspection, it seems Redondo did indeed possess galactic talent especially on the ball but he was also quite lazy and inconsistent especially on the domestic front - hence Real's inconsistent form in the League and his defensive game was suspect against players such as Hagi/Valderrama although in the latter stage of his career, he did improve. Take nothing away though, he was a breathtaking ball carrier and that run and skill against Henning Berg was no fluke.

What was particularly interesting about Redondo was that whilst he was very much in need of box to box destroyer types to do the hard yards... i.e. Simeone, Luis Enrique and Karembeu (a trait most deep lying playmakers seem to have) - but he was also at his best when he had creative players who took control of the final third and he just had to play a secondary role, feeding them the ball (his relationships with Maradona and Laudrup were sizzling, and his reliance on players like Raul (who was not a striker!) and Seedorf was evident).

Anyway those that were old enough to watch him more regularly in his prime or early days in La Liga, how highly thought of was he before that performance against United in 2000 and where would you rank him amongst his own generation as well as on the all time front?

@Invictus @Joga Bonito @harms @Gio @Edgar Allan Pillow
Click to expand...


How good? He was a beach!
 
My all time favorite player. Even before arriving in Madrid. Despite losing two leagues against them, I loved Valdano's Tenerife with Redondo, Felipe Miñambres, Dertycia, Latorre, Chemo del Solar, Ezequiel Castillo, Pier...
The worst thing about the Florentino era is that it has kept Redondo away from the club. I always thought he was a very elegant and intelligent guy, I would have liked to see him doing something at the club.
Taking the CKM as a reference, where Kroos is the architect, Casemiro the bricklayer and Modric the handyman, I think that Redondo fulfilled the function of architect and bricklayer, two jobs for one, with details of genius like what he did in Manchester.
There have been others who have been able to do these two functions, Busquets?, Alonso?, but his style of play always seemed especially plastic to me. I also have special sympathy for being a childhood idol.
One of my recent dreams shattered with the (successful) signing of Tchouaméni is to have seen the development of Camavinga, with the midfield all to himself, as an architect and bricklayer, alleviating dependence on Kroos and therefore changing the composition of the system for the future
 
Demyanenko_square_jaw said:
I appreciated him more when going back and watching older games. At the time the points you make about his defensive issues stood out to me, he struggled notably against quite a few players i was trying to follow at the time, Mostovoy always gave him a really hard time individually, culminating in a 5-1 game around about 97/98. Rewatching from the perspective of him being more of a balancing, supportive creative 8 was when i was able to better see his qualities. At the time he did have a massive reputation as a great midfield engine and dominator in both phases, so was probably expecting too much.
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Same for me. I rate Redondo higher now than I did at the time for a couple of reasons. First, while he was typically smoother on the ball than his box-to-box peers, he didn’t have their same fearsome defensive presence. In the 90s midfields you had to live and die on being a complete all-rounder. Sometimes he struggled against the best 10s as Raees’ video shows. And on reflection it was also a bit short-sighted on my part to chalk him down as modern deep-lying playmakers are not judged on how they fare against athletic attacking midfielders. That’s a system responsibility now where better organisation, more compactness and faster CBs offset many of the threats the best 10s pose.

Looking back at compilations of his performances though, I’ve appreciated him more. I also think that’s shaped through the lens of the modern game, where you can see how seamlessly he’d shift into any top team today. Instead of comparing him with Matthaus and Davids, instinctively I now compare him with Pirlo, Busquets, Jorginho, etc. And when he is compared with similar profiles of midfielder, his defensive game is better than most of them. So on balance he’s in the top group of #6s of all time for me.
 
Not many players like him around anymore. Watching him and Zidane is how football should be played. Playing the game like they were out on the street playing football, freedom to play football. Close control and the awareness of what's around them.
Joy to watch
 
World class capable of setting the temporary like no other, a shame how his career was cut short, other wise he may have been considered an all time great.

What a lovely player he was.

Edit: to elaborate more on his all time placing i like to clarify that I don't consider him to be such, despite his undeniable talent he didn't get to shine on the international stage(perhaps a fault of his own if you remember the controversy) and as already pointed out by the op madrid's league form was all over the place during those years and a major contributing factor to those large vacillations in form was his lack of consistent or laziness if you will, their two co triumphs were not dominating enough in my opinion either as they were the underdog on both occasions and probability should have lost to juve all though his best performances on both campaign were up there with the best of the best, his contributions to both were undeniably and he performed on the biggest stage when it mattered.


Using Keane for the sake of comparison (although he's a very different player) i say he clearly ranks below simply due to his rather fluctuating form and it would be major hindrance to any team looking to dominate week and week out but with all that said on pure talent and insulated peak performance he's up there with the very best and I don't think there's any uncertainty to that sentence.

How would he do today?
Very well I say, his lack of consistency notwithstanding you could easily build cl winning midfielder around him , his play style in my opinion would have aged pretty well and I see no difficulty in any conversion to modern football.
 
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His performance v Utd is on par with Keanes v Juventus, controlled the tempo of the game and injecting urgency when needed, that a side a really good midfielder but a level below the elites
 
This football channel in Youtube shows the best of his technique. Here there are some examples.


Recovering the ball in one-on-one situations with Argentina





Ball control





Double touch passing and stepping





Leaving rivals on the ground





Short dribbling in the national team





Thirty combinations with Argentina





The reverse elastic





Change of direction using the heel





360-degree rotation. Interior/exterior





Protecting the ball

 
Deep passes





Going through between two players

 
Which players from the past 10-15 years resemble him?
 
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