How Do We Measure The Quality Of Music?

KingEric7

Stupid Conspiracy Enthusiast Wanker
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
24,000
Well?

When you turn the radio on nowadays - especially whilst listening to the likes of Key 103 and Galaxy throughout the day - it's inevitable that you're going to get bombarded with an awful load of shite. Justin Bieber, Jason Derulo, this Professor Green wanker, etc...it's absolutely ridiculous if we're being honest.

The radio is riddled with this auto-tuned R'n'B nonsense that is sweeping the charts. However, why is it so that this is nonsense? Millions of people round the world tune in to this crap - who am I to assert that this is all bollocks in spite of this?

At first, I zoomed in on the lack of complexity of your average modern day song. The percussion, the melody, the rhythm...perhaps these are all too basic for my liking? Unfortunately, this approach failed, as I then compared, by contrast, my own music taste, and found that my favourite artist, Moby, was nothing out of the ordinary in terms of complexity. He is a fantastic musician, yet there is nothing particularly complex in the way that he constructs a melody or beat.

I then considered whether music could be measured in terms of the emotions and feelings that it induces within its listeners (the expressivist approach). After all, is it not the feeling of music that allows me to measure the extent to which I find a song beautiful, emotive or inspiring? Though different styles of music produce different types of emotional reactions, surely the purpose of music is to cause these reactions in the first place? In this, maybe we find our barometer of musical quality?

This approach also fell flat on its arse when I looked back at a situation about a week ago, where I found myself in a club full of people (drunk and sober) who were dancing around like lunatics to the likes of the aforementioned 'artists'.

Are we doomed to admit that music taste is too subjective a concept for us to attempt to find some sort of objective standard of taste? Am I forced to concede that music such as the Justin Bieber-esque crap that is flying around at the moment isn't actually shite?

Help me, someone.
 
Originality
Technical talent
Song structure
Creative ingenuity
Purpose


Roughly in that order. For instance, there is a time where I'll need to stop everything I'm doing and listen to some GSYBE, but when I'm on the treadmill I can settle for a bit of mainstream Foo Fighters, Prodigy or something to keep the bpm high enough.

As for all the shit you hear on the radio, given the right equipment and about 30 minutes I could make something better and less retarded.
 
I measure it as an inverse function of what Boss likes.
 
Its all a matter of opinion, perfect example being kanye wests new one, for me its far and away the best album this year, probably one of the best albums of the last 10 years, but if you dont listen to/like rap music then you dont see what all the fuss is about, it would probably just sound like a big mess but to me its epic

You cant gauge good music on sales either, especially with shit like cherly cole selling millions, thats all about promotion and getting the teen girls on board

I judge what i feel is good music on

A) a great beat
B) flow
C) lyrical content
 
Spammy said:
Originality
Technical talent
Song structure
Creative ingenuity
Purpose


Roughly in that order. For instance, there is a time where I'll need to stop everything I'm doing and listen to some GSYBE, but when I'm on the treadmill I can settle for a bit of mainstream Foo Fighters, Prodigy or something to keep the bpm high enough.

As for all the shit you hear on the radio, given the right equipment and about 30 minutes I could make something better and less retarded.
Click to expand...

You won't though. People keep saying this but I think they underestimate how hard it is to create a new song from scratch.
 
We let Johnno listen to it, then he decides to class it as either "Quality, a bit like Oasis" or "Everything else."
 
Thing is, the cnut's top song has got over 400 million views on YouTube. 400 million!!!

What the feck is wrong with your average gimp on this planet?
 
KingEric7 said:
Thing is, the cnut's top song has got over 400 million views on YouTube. 400 million!!!

What the feck is wrong with your average gimp on this planet?
Click to expand...

Its the media circus that surrounds him, if the average teenage girl thinks hes great then all her friends do too, its more to do with being 'in', they like that shit because their friends do
 
20solskjaer said:
Its all a matter of opinion, perfect example being kanye wests new one, for me its far and away the best album this year, probably one of the best albums of the last 10 years, but if you dont listen to/like rap music then you dont see what all the fuss is about, it would probably just sound like a big mess but to me its epic

You cant gauge good music on sales either, especially with shit like cherly cole selling millions, thats all about promotion and getting the teen girls on board

I judge what i feel is good music on

A) a great beat
B) flow
C) lyrical content
Click to expand...

It's not in the top 100 of the best albums in the past 10 years and its not even the best rap album of the year. Just my opinion of course.
 
Firstly there's no 'we'. Everyone has their own way of doing.

For me, I'm in an extremely confused state, musically. I'm trying to pursue a career in finance, but at the same time on the side I compose and write music. I've always considered myself a fan of rock n roll, give or take a few exceptions.

But the last year or so a few bands have totally turned my musical ideology upside down. Namely, Fleet Foxes and Mumford & Sons. The whole folk rock sound made me question everything else I liked and everything else I wrote or composed. So right now I'm beginning to start from scratch. Their kind of music seems to just make much better sense than any of my favorite bands of the past. There's a certain honesty to their craft that's brilliant. Every song has a multitude of emotions and nothing can really be typecast into 'happy', 'sad' or 'angry'. It's brilliantly complex and I'm loving it.
 
As for the OP (I know I drifted), you can't put it down to one thing. While, as mentioned above I dig deep to find what I want from music, some people purely go on the 'vibe' of the song, how fun it is, how 'in the mood' it gets them. Fair enough, to each his own.
 
philipb231190 said:
What were your favourite bands of the past?
Click to expand...

Too long a range. From The Beatles to Zeppelin to U2 (most hate band here!) to Floyd to The Doors to RHCP etc. I still love all of that of that but there's something about these two folk rock bands that just feels so much more 'right' to me these a days.
 
KingEric7 said:
Well?

When you turn the radio on nowadays - especially whilst listening to the likes of Key 103 and Galaxy throughout the day - it's inevitable that you're going to get bombarded with an awful load of shite. Justin Bieber, Jason Derulo, this Professor Green wanker, etc...it's absolutely ridiculous if we're being honest.

The radio is riddled with this auto-tuned R'n'B nonsense that is sweeping the charts. However, why is it so that this is nonsense? Millions of people round the world tune in to this crap - who am I to assert that this is all bollocks in spite of this?

At first, I zoomed in on the lack of complexity of your average modern day song. The percussion, the melody, the rhythm...perhaps these are all too basic for my liking? Unfortunately, this approach failed, as I then compared, by contrast, my own music taste, and found that my favourite artist, Moby, was nothing out of the ordinary in terms of complexity. He is a fantastic musician, yet there is nothing particularly complex in the way that he constructs a melody or beat.

I then considered whether music could be measured in terms of the emotions and feelings that it induces within its listeners (the expressivist approach). After all, is it not the feeling of music that allows me to measure the extent to which I find a song beautiful, emotive or inspiring? Though different styles of music produce different types of emotional reactions, surely the purpose of music is to cause these reactions in the first place? In this, maybe we find our barometer of musical quality?

This approach also fell flat on its arse when I looked back at a situation about a week ago, where I found myself in a club full of people (drunk and sober) who were dancing around like lunatics to the likes of the aforementioned 'artists'.

Are we doomed to admit that music taste is too subjective a concept for us to attempt to find some sort of objective standard of taste? Am I forced to concede that music such as the Justin Bieber-esque crap that is flying around at the moment isn't actually shite?

Help me, someone.
Click to expand...

It is simple, you are old. Remember how your parents laughed at the music you listened to as a kid? How they didn't "get" it? That is now you. And me.
 
KingEric7 said:
Thing is, the cnut's top song has got over 400 million views on YouTube. 400 million!!!

What the feck is wrong with your average gimp on this planet?
Click to expand...

pedofiles, relatives, girls/boys with a crush, his recold label pr people perhaps. It's a load of fake nonsense. $$$ maybe..after all word of mouth advertising - you've just told us he's had that many hits so some people will assume they have to hear it.

I think we can also measure it by generation and there's no doubt the quality has done downhill as image is now as important to tv stations which is a tragic.

Also that cnut simon cowell and his band of pricks who should be put on a spaceship and fecked off into deep space for Eternity. They have a manipulation over the charts which is sickening. The people on these shows are 'singers' - not artists or song writers....it's a sick joke. It's a dumbing down of talent and the people.

There is a reason lots of people listen to 80's music on youtube and say it's better. Anyone that thinks this generations better just don't know any better
 
Welcome to post-modernity. Everything is subjective we have killed objectivity.
 
KingEric7 said:
Are we doomed to admit that music taste is too subjective a concept for us to attempt to find some sort of objective standard of taste? Am I forced to concede that music such as the Justin Bieber-esque crap that is flying around at the moment isn't actually shite?

Help me, someone.
Click to expand...


I think musical taste is possibly more subjective than say taste in movies. In the threads this forum has had about the best albums of all time and the best films of all time I think the former list was more varied and there were more heated discussions.

I think there is a stunning variety of good new music out there but it's a worldwide thing and the Internet has to be used to find it. The old days of reading NME and Sounds and listening to John Peel have gone.
 
Music is like anything, the more you know about it, the better you can rate it, but being what it is, thats somewhat of an elitist view point.

But if you ask a 100 general people in the street what they think of the Velvet Underground, you'll probably get 50% of "who are they?", 30% "shite", 10% "ok" and 10% "one of the best ever"

Whereas if you ask 100 people who actually know music, you'd probably get like 95% saying "one of the best ever"

It's the same with anything, literature, film, even sport, the more you learn about it, the easier you find how to judge greatness and whats not great without a wrong opinion being forced on you like say "bale being world class" when he's really not, or lady gaga being the best around because she sells the most.
 
Lance Uppercut said:
It is simple, you are old. Remember how your parents laughed at the music you listened to as a kid? How they didn't "get" it? That is now you. And me.
Click to expand...

The problem here is that I'm 19. I'm obviously some sort of bender.
 
Not every single piece of music you listen to has to meet an objective standard of quality, I listen to some music knowing full well objectively its probably pretty crap and hardly earth-shattering stuff but as long as its got a beat you can dance to, drive to, run to or whatever you just take it for what it is and listen to it without the need to pass extreme critical judgement.

On the other hand what irks me however is the vast majority of people these days who are unable to make this distinction and believe Matt Cardle is a 'genius', sincerely believe X factor is the be all and end all of music and fail to seek out or appreciate ground-breaking music when they hear it.

People who limit their musical tastes to one type of music can't be trusted to measure the quality of a piece of music in my opinion, it becomes too subjective then.
 
It really depends on your own standards. How seriously you take music. The fact is most people really dont care, they'll listen to anything and these pop songs are actually scientifically manufactured to draw you in. Or at least draw teenage girls in. It is no wonder to me really but it's all taste at the end of the day.

WHo is going to admit they have bad taste? Everyone loves the music they love and whilst i'll find 99% of them retarded they'll say the same for me. The difference is that i actually care about the music i like and it's not because someone choose to make them a star AKA this Beibear guy, it's because they actually made good music that people could relate to.
 
I have a simple system, I either like it or I don't.
 


The best piss-take of modern day pop music so far?
 
I like a good and original melody, a bit of technical excellence is always welcome but not essential.

I tend to avoid most popular music as it see's to fit the trend rather than make it, which makes it sounds very samy, cheap and often of course, is a shower of shit.
 
The charts is filled with what it is because everything in it gets pushed by the media. For the people that like it, it's basically the only music they hear because they don't have a big enough interest in music to find a wider variety, so they're tastes refine to what they hear regularly. Plus if any of you lot are like me, a lot of the music you like won't get bought, at least not on release and not in single form, so it has no chance of charting and so getting regular airplay.
 
The Quality of music is songs that you don't forget over time. Music that if you listen to,your hear certain things in that song that perhaps you didn't pick up the first time you heard it.
 
Desert Eagle said:
It's not in the top 100 of the best albums in the past 10 years and its not even the best rap album of the year. Just my opinion of course.
Click to expand...

Thats what i was getting at, two completely different opinions of the same album, what makes either of us right about it?

Theres no such thing as good or bad music, its all down to peoples personal preference
 
The official guide to recognizing quality music is usually: Does AdZz like it? If So - It's fecking quality.
 
Aside from whether we like listening to the music, I'd say the three key points are:

1. Authenticity - Does the writer/artist mean what they are saying? Or is it more of an attempt to sell records than to make an artistic statement?

2. Originality - Following on from point 1, if it's an imitation of what's gone previously, then it's more than likely they don't mean it. Doing something new, either musically or in the message, is what all artists should be aiming for.

3. Depth - Does it stand up to repeat listening, and will it still be relevant in a year or more?
 
MikeUpNorth said:
Aside from whether we like listening to the music, I'd say the three key points are:

1. Authenticity - Does the writer/artist mean what they are saying? Or is it more of an attempt to sell records than to make an artistic statement?

2. Originality - Following on from point 1, if it's an imitation of what's gone previously, then it's more than likely they don't mean it. Doing something new, either musically or in the message, is what all artists should be aiming for.

3. Depth - Does it stand up to repeat listening, and will it still be relevant in a year or more?
Click to expand...

Great description
 
You must log in or register to reply here.