It still matters, yes. But your point is valid although secondary in that some of material effect would be the same. The threat is bigger if the politics of those emboldened are actually in government and in any way proactive.
Herr Musk | Fascist
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
It still matters, yes. But your point is valid although secondary in that some of material effect would be the same. The threat is bigger if the politics of those emboldened are actually in government and in any way proactive.
also he hasn't made any attempt to claim it meant anything else, or apologised for any offence caused
the important thing in my view is that it's perfectly plausible that he did do it on purpose, because of who he is, how he acts, what he says, and who he shows support for
and just for society to be in a place where it's perfectly plausible that the presidents right hand man is a nazi is already extremely fecked, even if we're all wrong about it
We all know exactly how this situation unfolds from here. There are plenty of historical examples, the only difference this time will be the scale. In a few years time people will be too horrified by what's happening every day to even remember there was once a debate about whether this lot were fascists.
If you dont think thats a nazi salute, do it at work tomorrow
This cannot be overemphasised.
Fair, it is definitely secondary. The outworkings could be just as scary though.
Yea, it's all utterly depressing. The whole episode from the act to the way the aftermath has been handled by the media is depressing and a bit frightening. A real signal for where western society currently is.
To me the fascistic nature of this administration is fairly obvious. The core messages are autarky, nationalism, distrust of foreigners, references to a great cultural past that is now lost or harmed by foreigners/minorities.
Yep.
interesting arguments made by lots of right wing / mainstream commentators in the press yday...the hulabaloo and 'gesture politics' over Musks actions are exactly why the left are being dominated by the right in america and beyond.
when i said interesting, i meant bullshit. #hilarywasright feckin deplorables.
and as for the likes of the ADL and other Zionist organisations that have looked to highlight and demand punishment for any action from anyone in the public eye that might be seen as anti-semitic, their prevaricating because of Musks influence and his support of Israel, is bullshit too.
when i said interesting, i meant bullshit. #hilarywasright feckin deplorables.
and as for the likes of the ADL and other Zionist organisations that have looked to highlight and demand punishment for any action from anyone in the public eye that might be seen as anti-semitic, their prevaricating because of Musks influence and his support of Israel, is bullshit too.
Franco, who knew a bit about being a fascist, said that fascism is the amalgamation of corporate and state power.
Not sure you can look at the stage of any of trumps events over the last few days and see anything but exactly that.
Not sure you can look at the stage of any of trumps events over the last few days and see anything but exactly that.
He's now denying it and disputing the Wikipedia article. Trying to discredit it, even more fascist behaviour.
https://bsky.app/profile/junlper.beer/post/3lgbvleiqqc2k
https://bsky.app/profile/junlper.beer/post/3lgbvleiqqc2k
He's never denied it, he just rolls into the legacy/MSM argument, that they are all the same and lying. We all know what it was but he is surrounded by his keyboard warriors on Twitter who repeat and praise his every word.
I particularly enjoyed the part of his speech thanking the American populace for "Saving Civilization" before promptly whipping out the ol' Nazi Salute a couple of times.
He couldn't be clearer if he stood on the terrace of the Eagles Nest and declared Space X would be renamed as the V-Programme in honour of the pioneering rocket work scientists working under the Nazi regime carried out... he at the very least heavily sympathizes with fascist views.
He couldn't be clearer if he stood on the terrace of the Eagles Nest and declared Space X would be renamed as the V-Programme in honour of the pioneering rocket work scientists working under the Nazi regime carried out... he at the very least heavily sympathizes with fascist views.
Libertarians (Milei, Musk, etc) are using the word liberty in the same bad faith NAZIs used the word socialism.
They claim they are the party of freedom and liberty, but what they don't tell you, it's only the freedom for corporations and owners of the productive lands to do and rule as they please.
They are 100% fascists.
They claim they are the party of freedom and liberty, but what they don't tell you, it's only the freedom for corporations and owners of the productive lands to do and rule as they please.
They are 100% fascists.
Especially those living in Germany and Austria should try this.
No, his mother was irish so he qualifies for a passport but there was discussion in government about taking it from him for improperly listing his country of birth as Ireland. He was born in Luton
Some feckwits were arrested and charged for doing nazi salutes in Sydney recently.
If it talks like a Fascist. Gestures like a Fascist and Supports Fascists. It probably IS a Fascist
Unless it means I might have to change the way I think about things.
Where I live, this kind of stunt gets you (rightly) arrested.
There's truly no words to describe what this second mandate is about to become.
for those not convinced, when did they start to control you?
who would have thought America would embrace racists, racism and fascism? eh?
Exactly. Whether he meant it or not (he 100% did) is pretty immaterial given that genuine Nazis will see that as a sign of encouragement to become even more openly fascist, it tells them that the USA is theirs. If the world worked as we were told it did as children, he'd be in prison.
Musk's response is pathetic, he didn't even deny it:
He's a very proud Nazi!
He's a very proud Nazi!
I think most of the people not convinced at this point are just (rightly) terrified at the implications of the worlds most powerful country by far and (at least in western countries) the one that’s upheld the world order that the west has generally done very well out of descending into an openly fascistic government. And subsequently choosing to hope it isn’t actually the case.
It's been an interesting development that somehow the left are to blame according to numerous political pundits. If we can make it through the next 4 years I'll be interested to see how they pin it on the left then.
I think this is true for many people. They are simply in denial.
I mean, US had racism and fascism in a similar way than anywhere else in germany and the rest of europe it just happened that they were in different sides of the war on a power struggle and to be able to look like the good guys, they antagonized the german anti semitism, racism and fascism. Now that the greatest generation are gone, that memory is gone and there is no problem to do a nazi salute in public
That's not actually true. Trump has ,politically, fully embraced aggressive social conservatism which is not small government libertarian at all. Trump only supports the part about deregulation to enrich the billionaires that supported him. On social issues, they are not small government at all and want government involved in enforcing social/religious conservative values and threats of coming after political opponents. Also the hard stance on deporting immigrants, ending birthright citizenship, deporting students who protest Israel, etc, all of those are well outside of small government libertarianism. Even on economics, extreme tariffs and opposing immigration is the opposite of small government libertarianism. His stated intentions are not neo-liberal, they are neo-mercantilist. And Trump's 21st century neo-mercantilist policies that are anti-free trade and protectionist echo the economics of 20th century fascists much more than small government libertarians.
So yeah, its simply not accurate to say that Trump is just a small government libertarian, he is far different. He's a anti-free trade neo-mercantilist that is all for using government to enforce social/religious conservatism.
Well, exactly. And look who this thread is about.
I find racism is alive and well in Europe at a time when it has been largely blunted in the states.
I'm not addressing the general thread, I'm address you specifically saying this "But small government libertarianism is 100% the politics of Trump." You said Trump, not Musk. And Trump's politics are very much NOT small government libertarianism.
Here is an article from Cato Institute, an actual libertarian think tank:
"the list of Trump policies and postures that libertarians oppose is long and dangerous. He allowed government spending and debt to continue to spiral upward, increasing the national debt by $8.4 trillion. Federal outlays soared from $4 trillion his first year (2017) to $6.8 trillion in his last year. He persists in railing against immigration and free trade, supports further expansion of presidential power and seeks to crack down on political enemies. The Libertarian Party itself said it best in a 2018 statement: “Whatever libertarian impulses Trump the candidate seemed to have … his actual performance as president stands in stark contrast.”
https://www.cato.org/commentary/trump-hardly-libertarian-neither-todays-libertarian-party
If you want to pivot away from discussion of Trump and admit he is not a small government libertarian at all that's fine. But for the record Musk also doesn't actually support small government libertarianism at all. He became the richest man in the world on government subsidies and contracts for Tesla and SpaceX. His path is really "big government for me, small government for thee" which is not actually libertarian either.
I was talking about the areas where Trump and Musk are aligned, in my opinion (other than, you know, the racism and xenophobia) but I’ve already done this to death so happy to agree to disagree (on whatever it is we’re disagreeing about)
That's fine but you were flat out wrong when you asserted "small government libertarianism is 100% the politics of Trump."
Small government libertarianism is neither the politics of Trump nor of Musk and not where the two of them are aligned. They both support a neo-mercantilist stance that is not libertarian at all as flat out authoritarian policies on immigration, social conservatism and more.
And for the first time, the ultra rich men seem to be directly involved with the President/Government in a quite overt manner. Usually it is just the lobbyists doing the work for them. But now all of them are there visibly. And Musk is now sitting in white house and has an official white house email address.