Heavens Draft - R1: Isotope vs MichaelF7

With players at their peak, who would win?

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    8
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Physiocrat

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Isotope

WINNING-formation-tactics.png


MichaelF7

Michaelf7777777-formation-tactics.png


Isotope Tactics

A 4-2-3-1 and 4-4-2 hybrid, built around midfield control, with a multi-faceted attack filled with world-class forwards and an effective and complementary backline. A 4-2-3-1 and 4-4-2 hybrid. With genius Zico and flying duo Ryan Giggs and George Best supplying the greatest finisher of all time Gerd Muller. With steady as rock backline, covered by Paulo Roberto Falcão and Matthias Sammer duo, provide a technically exquisite and defensively solid platform for the rest of the team.




Why may we win?

- Attractive attacking style that can play wide or compact, with creativity and playmaking littered all over the team.

- Zico's through ball to Muller and Best.

- Rock solid defensive play of 4 backline and 5 hardworking midfielders.

MichaelF7 Tactics

My team will play a 4-3-3 False 9 Formation based on Guardiola's Barcelona. Messi is the 2010/11-2012/13 version where he scored 186 goals in 165 games for Barcelona mainly from the False 9 position. Careca will play as a goalscoring inside forward from the right while Gullit will play as an AM who will on occasion drift to the right wing. I will now discuss some of the less well-known players on my team before discussing some of the strengths that my team has.

My left sided centre back is Aleksandre Chivadze who was the best player in his position in the USSR (according to the National Coaches Council) every year from 1979 to 1986 (except 1985 where he was 2nd) and was the USSR Footballer of the Year in 1980. In this article, Craig McCracken describes Chivadze as having "a greater mastery of the ball than any creative outfield British player I had seen."

My right sided centre back is Roberto Perfumo who in 2016 was chosen by the Argentine FA in their all-time XI. Maradona compared Perfumo to Passarella by stating "Forget Passarella. Perfumo was our real Kaiser" (Source). Perfumo was regarded as the best player when Racing Club won the 1967 Copa Libertadores and Intercontinental Cup. Perfumo started his career in midfield including representing Argentina in that position at the 1964 Olympics and was skilled at passing the ball. As a defender his best skills were interceptions and understanding the game.

My right sided inside forward is Careca who was the best player in the Brazilian league in 1986 as well as being in the South American team of the year in 1986 and the Brazilian league team of the season in 1982, 1985 and 1986. Careca had high work rate and stanima as well as superb positioning and movement. His partnership with Maradona at Napoli was described as follows: "Maradona was the light drawing defenders to him like moths to a flame, while Careca was the stiletto, the striker finding the space for Maradona’s carefully crafted passes and driving home the killer strike" (Source).

Strengths
  • The midfield, a strength of Guardiola's Barcelona is improved on here as although Schuster is a downgrade on Xavi, Tigana is a large upgrade on Busquets and Gullit is an upgrade on Iniesta
  • Stoichkov and Gullit's work rate off the ball
  • During the selected 3-year peak, Messi has 186 goals and 76 assists in 165 games for Barcelona
 
Not a fan of Scammer as DM, but suppose he can do the job. Sammer could have added some flair is he wasn't stuck in a defensive role.

M7s team is a bit more complicated. From what I recall, Schuster, Gullit and Messi all love the right midfield and it does seem overlapping than complimentary. Also don't like Tigana as the holding midfielder.

Thinking Iso for now, but open to be swayed.
 
@Isotope and anyone - how many off the ball runs did Best make? Thinking of how many through balls of Zico he would get on the end of.
 
Physiocrat said:
@Isotope and anyone - how many off the ball runs did Best make? Thinking of how many through balls of Zico he would get on the end of.
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Courtesy of Harms:

harms said:
Nah, I've been binge watching United games from the 60's lately and Best does tons of off-the-ball runs — I'll publish a video from the game against City where Charlton constantly finds him with long balls in a few days. It's nice that you have a winger-like player here instead of a more traditionally goalscoring wide-forward like Blokhin, imo — with Pelé and Ronaldo's genius in the middle it's good to have a player who is natural at moving out wide to make a cross.
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I've been slightly hesitant to pair Muller and Best together (not that the opportunity tends to come along that often) because apparently they didn't get on at all well at Ford Lauderdale, with Best basically acting like a dick to Muller. In general a real-life dysfunction between two players seems a good reason to avoid pairing them in drafts, but should this simply be put down to this being late-career, off-the-rails Best?
 
Pat_Mustard said:
Courtesy of Harms:



I've been slightly hesitant to pair Muller and Best together (not that the opportunity tends to come along that often) because apparently they didn't get on at all well at Ford Lauderdale, with Best basically acting like a dick to Muller. In general a real-life dysfunction between two players seems a good reason to avoid pairing them in drafts, but should this simply be put down to this being late-career, off-the-rails Best?
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I think this is the video -



Pretty good off the ball running here.

As for Best and Muller, I think I'd put that down to off the rails Best. He seems really to work for the team in his younger days.
 
Pat_Mustard said:
Courtesy of Harms:



I've been slightly hesitant to pair Muller and Best together (not that the opportunity tends to come along that often) because apparently they didn't get on at all well at Ford Lauderdale, with Best basically acting like a dick to Muller. In general a real-life dysfunction between two players seems a good reason to avoid pairing them in drafts, but should this simply be put down to this being late-career, off-the-rails Best?
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Sounds like Best would have fallen out with every poor cnut who crossed his path by that Father Jack stage of his career.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Not a fan of Scammer as DM, but suppose he can do the job. Sammer could have added some flair is he wasn't stuck in a defensive role.

M7s team is a bit more complicated. From what I recall, Schuster, Gullit and Messi all love the right midfield and it does seem overlapping than complimentary. Also don't like Tigana as the holding midfielder.

Thinking Iso for now, but open to be swayed.
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Sammer is a great tackler, spending good amount of time in midfield (he used to be a CM), and good passer as well. He's not really a defender on the regular basis.
 
I reckon if Falcao and Sammer take turns of holding in possession it could work really well. Falcao has experience as a DLP so sharing the role when Iso has two hardworking wingers mean it should work.
 
Personnel wise I quite like Michael's side. I was a bit unsure of Careca at RW forward but the more I though about it, the more it makes sense especially as he played in a front two with wing-backs which normally requires the striker to drift wide more than in a 442 or 433. I also like Gullit in the Iniesta role. For balance though it is likely that Amoros will have to be a bit more reserved liked Abidal did for Barca. What I don't get though is Tigana as a holder. Yes he's good on the ball but I'm not sure his the guy for the role. I think this needs selling a bit.
 
Physiocrat said:
Personnel wise I quite like Michael's side. I was a bit unsure of Careca at RW forward but the more I though about it, the more it makes sense especially as he played in a front two with wing-backs which normally requires the striker to drift wide more than in a 442 or 433. I also like Gullit in the Iniesta role. For balance though it is likely that Amoros will have to be a bit more reserved liked Abidal did for Barca. What I don't get though is Tigana as a holder. Yes he's good on the ball but I'm not sure his the guy for the role. I think this needs selling a bit.
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As a third most offensive mid or him actually playing like Iniesta/Silva and offering what they do? Because if the latter, he would be abysmal at it.
Also, no idea why is Tigana playing as a holding midfielder, would be nowhere near as good as his regular self, strange decision as Schuster could have played there.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
As a third most offensive mid or him actually playing like Iniesta/Silva and offering what they do? Because if the latter, he would be abysmal at it.
Also, no idea why is Tigana playing as a holding midfielder, would be nowhere near as good as his regular self, strange decision as Schuster could have played there.
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Just as the third most offensive mid. Given the personnel I just assumed it would a much more direct approach than that of Pep's Barca.
 
Physiocrat said:
Just as the third most offensive mid. Given the personnel I just assumed it would a much more direct approach than that of Pep's Barca.
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just saw michales OP, its Tiki Taka remake....
 
The DLP version of Gullit would have been lovely here at the base of the midfield, with Schuster and Tigana ahead of him. It's not Pep's Barca, but it'll work I reckon. The way it's currently setup is a bit off.

@Isotope I somehow expected you to play Desailly at DM and Sammer at CB. Didn't expect them playing the other way around.
 
Himannv said:
The DLP version of Gullit would have been lovely here at the base of the midfield, with Schuster and Tigana ahead of him. It's not Pep's Barca, but it'll work I reckon. The way it's currently setup is a bit off.

@Isotope I somehow expected you to play Desailly at DM and Sammer at CB. Didn't expect them playing the other way around.
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That was my first thought as well. But reading other Draft where Enigma has Sammer in CB, i kind of see the other POV. Sammer was a CM that converted into libero in back 3 (or 5). I think he can do both job superbly. Player like him has to have positioning intelligent, knowing where to move forward, step into midfield, or drop deep. I suspect in modern game, player like him would be playing in midfield more than as CB.

I just feel more secure with Desailly - Forster duo against those attack.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Didn't Sammer's peak come in a back 3?
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His role was dubbed "libero in front of defense", he kind of switched between defense and midfield positions. Would say during this time he can be both described as a DLP who habitually moved back into defense or a libero with freedom to advance from a back three. But yeah, lots of presence in defense, but really everything including decisive box-to-box runs.

I think in drafts he can play both in midfield and defense, depending on setup & his specific role. But to get the peak version of him, he'd ideally be main man in the area he plays in imo, with license to take matters in his hand.

In @Isotope's team, I reckon he'd fall back between Desailly & Förster in possession a lot, to take over buildup in DLP fashion.

edit:
Isotope said:
I suspect in modern game, player like him would be playing in midfield more than as CB.
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Agree with that.
 
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Good team, @Michaelf7777777 . I was afraid to ask this during the game for obvious reason. But why didn't you go with Stoichkov - Messi -- Gullit up front? Did you just take a pity of me ?? :lol:
 
@Edgar Allan Pillow
Synco said:
"libero in front of defense"
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I think this match comp by Joga shows this duality very well - in many scenes Sammer is positioned in DM in front of the backline, in others he operates as a classic sweeper:




Such a comp can't show the whole off-the-ball story of course, but this setup looks like a loose hybrid between back 4 and 5 to me, depending on Sammer's positioning. (I guess man-marking systems are generally a bit more diffuse anyway.)
 
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Synco said:
@Edgar Allan Pillow

I think this match comp by Joga shows this duality very well - in many scenes Sammer is positioned in DM in front of the backline, in others he operates as a classic sweeper:




Such a comp can't show the whole off-the-ball story of course, but this setup looks like a loose hybrid between back 4 and 5 to me, depending on Sammer's positioning. (I guess man-marking systems are generally a bit more diffuse anyway.)
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I agree with the assessment. He switches between aggressively tackling whoever has the ball and being the last.mannin defense putting in last gasp tackles.

But I just don't see than happening in this match. With two strippers behind him, his tackling in defense is not really needed and with Falcao next to him, his playmaking skills also are superfluous. He's a class player and can still do the job, but this is not the right team to get the best off him.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I agree with the assessment. He switches between aggressively tackling whoever has the ball and being the last.mannin defense putting in last gasp tackles.

But I just don't see than happening in this match. With two strippers behind him, his tackling in defense is not really needed and with Falcao next to him, his playmaking skills also are superfluous. He's a class player and can still do the job, but this is not the right team to get the best off him.
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I think he's a man of immense focus and commitment to not be distracted by the two strippers behind him.
 
:lol: A man's mind can't be that far when he pretends to be joking. Hmmm...
 
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