Heaven Draft R1 - PaulScholes vs Pat Mustard

Who will win this game?


  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .

Šjor Bepo

Wout is love, Wout is life; all hail Wout!
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Team Scholes

4-4-2 diamond
Split forwards to allow Kaka more room to drive forward throw the middle , and for Del Piero (pre ACL version) and Baggio to play in the half spaces where they were at their most dangerous.
2 box to box no8 in (c) Matthaus and Veron.
Arguably the greatest all-rounded defensive midfielder of all time in Redondo.
Width provided by the fullbacks.
Right foot left foot combination at the back, and both of whom are comfortable on the ball.

Build up play from the back.


Out of possession
To be narrow and compact and force the opposition out wide.



Team Mustard

Theme: Man Utd 2006-09

"Unlike most sides on this list, Manchester United have not used a specific formation in their amazingly successful last three seasons. Sir Alex Ferguson has used a variety of formations – 4-3-3, 4-4-2, 4-5-1, 4-2-3-1, 4-4-1-1 – and probably a few others. With so many different formations, a rigurous squad rotation system and key players bought and sold during this time, it would be difficult to sum up the side simply by giving a diagram of eleven players, and saying “They played this way for three seasons”.

The side they won the Champions League with in 2007/08 seems the best XI to describe in detail, however. Always featuring a back four with two relatively deep central midfield players, Ferguson generally used an additional midfield player, with a fluid front three of Cristiano Ronaldo, Wayne Rooney and Carlos Tevez. The reasons Ferguson could afford such a loose shape in the final third were that (a) Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez were all highly versatile, happy to play either on the wing or through the middle, (b) The three had a wonderful understanding in and around the penalty area, meaning Ferguson could effectively hand out three ‘free roles’ and sit back and witness the results and, crucially (c) All three understood their defensive responsibilities. Of course, the key feature of the side was, in a move often described as being influenced by Luciano Spalletti’s Roma side, United featured no permanent frontman." Michael Cox, 2010

One of my favourite ever teams, but necessarily an easy one to try to replicate, given the kaleidoscope of team shapes, players and tactics deployed by Fergie and Queiroz in that glorious era. I've opted for the 2008 Champions League final line-up as a loose template. There's some fairly clear points of departure here, namely the composition of the central midfield, and the main man in attack being one of the central attackers rather than the wide forward. Stylistically, that Utd team could pretty much do it all, from the park-the-bus job against Barca, all the way through to quality possession play, with blistering counter-attacking arguably being the hallmark of the side. With Xavi in tow, we'll automatically slant that bit more towards possession play and away from the soak-and-counter model that we often deployed in tough away games, but this is a much more direct side than, say, Pep's Barca.

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Defence: There's a strong nod to the source material here, with half of the back four being key players in that era of unprecedented success at Old Trafford. Rolls Royce CB Ferdinand marshals the defence, with the turbo-charged flank dominator Evra reprising his role as an attacking LB. One Utd legend warrior-saint replaces another at the heart of the defence, with McGrath replicating Vidic's role as Rio's teak-tough and physical partner. Giuseppe Bergomi completes the backline as a defence-orientated RB, a substantial upgrade on Wes Brown.

Midfield: If the bedrock of the team's success was a resolute and relatively stable defence, there was considerably more variation in midfield both in shape and personnel. Beyond the Scholes/Carrick duo that we most associate with the team, the likes of Fletcher, Giggs, Anderson and (sporadically) Hargreaves all contributed in various permutations. Uli Stielike sits deepest in the pivot, and while I wouldn't consider him a like-for-like replica of either, he provides a similar defence-screening function to Carrick while supplying the bite and aggression of a Fletcher. Watching Scholes in his late-career pomp was one of the greatest pleasures of that team, and to that end we've replaced him with one of the few metronomes who stands above him in stature. It's a more direct environment than we'd typically place Xavi in, but his core qualities of press resistance and intelligent, probing use of the ball will stand us in good stead here, and there's no shortage of technically gifted and intelligent teammates for him to interact with. The wide midfielder position was a tricky one to fill, and I'm happy with Seedorf on a few levels. Firstly, he's played a very similar role for Real Madrid, as well as featuring in the side midfielder role in diamonds throughout his career. Secondly, his technical ability and tactical understanding should enable him to get on Xavi and Di Stefano's wavelengths. Lastly, as I had an eye on Giggs as well as Hargreaves as players who featured in this role in that Utd team, I felt that Seedorf married much of Giggs' craft and guile with Hargreaves' physicality and engine.

Attack: "Meanwhile, Sir Alex Ferguson signed Carlos Tevez, a surprising move considering the Argentine was, like Rooney, a second striker rather than a pure goalscorer. But Ferguson had a plan. “I’ve read all these opinions about the two of them being identical,” he said. “I don't think they are at all. What you can say is they both have a similar physique, they are both two-footed, they are both quick-ish, they can both beat a man. I don't think it's a bad thing in terms of the similarities. When they get playing with each other they will hopefully get an understanding about where they are playing.” That was an intriguing quote. Ferguson didn’t suggest one would permanently play behind the other, or that one would be shifted wide. He instead envisaged them working out positional responsibilities naturally, gradually developing the understanding to dovetail and rotate. That’s precisely what happened.

During 2007/08, it was impossible to define Manchester United’s system. The rotation between the attackers – generally including Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez but sometimes one of Nani, Park Ji-Sung and Ryan Giggs too – was exceptional. At times United’s basic shape looked like a 4-3-3, on other occasions it was 4-4-2, but ultimately it was fluid, flexible and fantastic to watch. In some matches, particularly at home to weaker sides, the attackers had no set positions and simply had responsibility to cover the wide areas between them when possession was lost." Michael Cox, 2017

If Utd 2008 was all about giving Ronaldo the best possible platform to wreak havoc while mitigating against his reluctance to defend, here the leader of the attack will clearly be Di Stefano. There's probably never been a greater on-pitch strategist, and he should thrive here directing operations in this ad-hoc and fluid attacking structure. Rummenigge looks a capable partner in crime; hardworking, positionally versatile and, handily, probably more naturally inclined to gravitate to the right channels than either Tevez or Rooney were. I'm delighted with Neymar as the roving wide attacker - a highly credible goal threat albeit not on Ronaldo's level, but even better than Ronaldo as a dribbling threat and creator, with a better workrate. He's proven himself as a good teammate in these star-studded attacking constellations too, both at Barca and PSG.
 
Both team look a bit off and hard to wrap my head around. Kalle exploiting space between De Boer/Carlos on the counter looks to be the best way to goal across both teams. Putting in a tentative vote for Pat.

For Paul, not sure why Aguero is on the bench? Baggio-Kaka behind Aguero in a 4-2-3-1 would have been so much better. Veron also doesn't add too much that Redondo and two AMs doesn't.
 
how many balls will team Mustard need though? Should be good enough for this round as that diamond is a bit off and defence looks suspect but going forwards its going to be a problem
 
how many balls will team Mustard need though?
Agree there. I think a few more dedicated off-the-ball workers would suit the team well. I get the late-00s United concept, but I have difficulties to really connect the collective dynamics of both sides.

But to repeat it, I love the backline. And the player core is very tasty in principle, ADS/Rummenigge looks fantastic as such, it's more about mix and balance for me.
 
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That United team was much more direct imo, can see this team being far more patient in the build up. Both teams seem a bit off to me as well. Would prefer someone like Suarez to partner Neymar or Stoichkov to go with Di Stefano. Mustard has the advantage because of individual quality, especially in defence.
 
Where do you see the problems exactly?

whole midfield and attack is filled with players that prefered to play with ball in their feet(apart from Kalle and while he moved a lot he wasnt exactly Pedro), not to mention they all loved to carry the ball.
 
Decided to wonder into the draft games forum after a while, and I’ve been hit with a proper head-scratcher.
 
whole midfield and attack is filled with players that prefered to play with ball in their feet(apart from Kalle and while he moved a lot he wasnt exactly Pedro), not to mention they all loved to carry the ball.
I tend to like wide attackers who can run at defenders a bit. If you look at United's attack currently, it's sometimes lopsided because the left side has multiple players who are trying to beat their man, while the right side is non-existent. Also, I think the Barca version of Neymar should fit in fine here because he seemed to work fine with similar players. The lack of a dedicated no 9 is a bit of a problem as it doesn't pin back the CBs, but not seeing a big problem there apart from that.

I'm not really seeing the problem with the midfield. Missing a Keane type maybe?
 
I tend to like wide attackers who can run at defenders a bit. If you look at United's attack currently, it's sometimes lopsided because the left side has multiple players who are trying to beat their man, while the right side is non-existent. Also, I think the Barca version of Neymar should fit in fine here because he seemed to work fine with similar players. The lack of a dedicated no 9 is a bit of a problem as it doesn't pin back the CBs, but not seeing a big problem there apart from that.

I'm not really seeing the problem with the midfield. Missing a Keane type maybe?

He was surrounded with most selfless players ever and Suarez who was doing zillion of the ball runs per game. Here you have Xavi controlling the game from a semi advanced position so a different dynamic for Seedorf who played with a deep playmaker in Pirlo, Stielike liked the ball very much for a DM as well. They you add Di Stefano who was always a central figure in his teams(and rightly so). Dont know, im not buying it even though i love every single player in that line of six.
 
Decided to wonder into the draft games forum after a while, and I’ve been hit with a proper head-scratcher.

These two teams give a glimpse of United formations when we get Felix.
 
I like Mustards defence better but Scholes midfield is incredible, very tough one.

The attacks are even matched also, hmm..