Heaven Draft R1 - EAP vs NM

With players at their peak, who would win?

  • Total voters
    14
  • Poll closed .

Jim Beam

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vs

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EAP TACTICS

Formation: 4-2-2-2

Franco Baresi - Jaap Stam with Dino Zoff behind is a solid core to anchor the team. Cabrini and Brehme offer defensive solidity and consistent attacking width all game.
Frank Rijkaard shields the defence with Wim van Hanegem as his playmaking partner. They are both excellent defensively and good at bringing the ball from the deep and initiating attacks.
Rivellino and Socrates are both top notch #10s themselves. Lots of creativity.
Kempes will drift wide stretching play if needed and Sheva is a complete #10 offering all round pace, movement and goals.


NM TACTICS

Team Theme : Free flowing Football with a couple of nasty bastards who can fight

Defense: G. Buffon is an all time GK. In front, Ramos and Koeman complement each other. Ramos is the destroyer and has the physical capabilities to make up for Koeman, while Koeman will be the playmaker from the back. On the right flank, Marzolini will be defensively focused to account for Koeman and Ronaldo, while Kaltz on the other flank will be focused on dropping the ball on Ronaldo and van Basten's head - a good path to goal for me.

Midfield: Makelele is the engine. He will cover for Koeman if needed but otherwise focus on keeping it simple and stopping attacks. Neeskens will play the box to box role he did his entire career and Laudrup will be the orchestrator - which he does so well.

Attack: Jairzihnho will benefit from Kaltz's threat and play his usual role. Same for Ronaldo (Madrid LW version) and van Basten. Laudrup, Jairzinho and Kaltza will be the primary providers and I fully expect van Basten and Ronaldo to smash goals in.

The idea behind the team is to have a free flowing attacking unit but with a few with defined roles (Makelele, Ramos, Marzolini) to ensure there is steel and structure.
 
@Edgar Allan Pillow

Excellent balance throughout your side. The front four a perfect fit for a magic square: Kempes to drift left and Shevchenko right with Rivelino and Socrates to work the inside channels.

One minor point, every time I remember seeing Baresi play he was at RCB, does anyone know if he played LCB much?

@NM , how much positional freedom does Laudrup have?

Kaltz is a great choice to feed CR7.
 
With Edgar’s team I feel the fullbacks have a big role to play here. The team lacks someone to drive forward with the ball at times and the wide options seem like the best bet for ball progression. So my main concern is Brehme on the right. I’m sure he can play there being a top player and right footed but he’s not in his normal position.

With NM, my issue is Ramos. I’m not fully convinced by him defensively and I’d have liked someone more reliable alongside Koeman.

Leaning towards giving this to Edgar but will see how the discussion goes.
 
Himannv said:
The team lacks someone to drive forward with the ball at times and the wide options seem like the best bet for ball progression.
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Surprising to see this! Van Hanegem is one of the bese midfield playmakers in getting the ball forward from the deep. He regularly arrives late at the edge of the box and is not a bad goal scorer himself. Rijkaard is a all action midfielder and is more of B2B than a pivot. As far as getting the ball up to attack, there are only a handful better than these two all time. Cabrini - Van Hanegem - Rivelino - Kempes is surely a potent left sided threat!

Can understand the Brehme comment, but I'd still rate him at RB than most RBs. He's completely two footed.
 
Physiocrat said:
@Edgar Allan Pillow

Excellent balance throughout your side. The front four a perfect fit for a magic square: Kempes to drift left and Shevchenko right with Rivelino and Socrates to work the inside channels.

One minor point, every time I remember seeing Baresi play he was at RCB, does anyone know if he played LCB much?

@NM , how much positional freedom does Laudrup have?

Kaltz is a great choice to feed CR7.
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I always see Laudrup as an orchestrator for sides. He has the freedom to drift as needed with the expectation that Neeskens is intelligent enough to know when to hold / go forward.
 
Himannv said:
With Edgar’s team I feel the fullbacks have a big role to play here. The team lacks someone to drive forward with the ball at times and the wide options seem like the best bet for ball progression. So my main concern is Brehme on the right. I’m sure he can play there being a top player and right footed but he’s not in his normal position.

With NM, my issue is Ramos. I’m not fully convinced by him defensively and I’d have liked someone more reliable alongside Koeman.

Leaning towards giving this to Edgar but will see how the discussion goes.
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On Ramos - the idea was to have somebody that could complement Koeman by having pace and strong physical gifts. Add in Makelele as a shield in front of that combo, and I'm comfortable with him doing the job. He's good on the ball too (Ramos). Any other thoughts on the side?
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Surprising to see this! Van Hanegem is one of the bese midfield playmakers in getting the ball forward from the deep. He regularly arrives late at the edge of the box and is not a bad goal scorer himself. Rijkaard is a all action midfielder and is more of B2B than a pivot. As far as getting the ball up to attack, there are only a handful better than these two all time. Cabrini - Van Hanegem - Rivelino - Kempes is surely a potent left sided threat!

Can understand the Brehme comment, but I'd still rate him at RB than most RBs. He's completely two footed.
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I mean someone who can run with the ball and beat players. All your players prefer to pass rather than run at a defense with the possible exception of the front two and the FBs.

Which is why I’m saying Brehme is a pretty important player for your side so his suitability on the right is a question I have. I’m asking about it because I don’t know what he’s like playing on that side and would be interested in reading any info you have.
 
NM said:
On Ramos - the idea was to have somebody that could complement Koeman by having pace and strong physical gifts. Add in Makelele as a shield in front of that combo, and I'm comfortable with him doing the job. He's good on the ball too (Ramos). Any other thoughts on the side?
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My concern with Ramos is that he’s got a rash challenge or two in him each game and could cost his side here. Maybe I’ve seen too much of him so my opinion is perhaps harsher than it would be for some lesser known player.

Other than that, I quite like the team. I love the attack and midfield and I prefer your side to your opponent’s here in those areas of the pitch. I’d personally prefer a more attacking RB than the one you have though as Cristiano usually played with the likes of Evra and Marcelo behind him.
 
Himannv said:
Which is why I’m saying Brehme is a pretty important player for your side so his suitability on the right is a question I have. I’m asking about it because I don’t know what he’s like playing on that side and would be interested in reading any info you have.
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More or less identical to him on the left. Here he is in the Euros semi-final against THAT Dutch side — you can't ask for a bigger/tougher game.

 
Generally I prefer a more reserved partner for both Koeman & Ramos, especially with Kaltz in the same back 4. And Sheva is just about the worst opponent for Koeman that you can think of stylistically aside from the likes of Fenômeno (and Kempes is equally troubling).

NM's attack is even shinier, but it has to break through the steel of Baresi + Stam covered by Cabrini & Brehme on either side and Rijkaard in front of them... So yeah, I'd give it to Edgar — just about. Kaltz + Cristiano & van Basten as well as Laudrup & Koeman + that front 3 are great though.
 
Since I'm losing this one as well, I think I am honestly missing something from a draft perspective. Too many first round exits.. and I just don't see the how / why. Other than his defense, I think I'm just better. I get that feeling a few times in my eliminations, so I think I might step away for a bit.

Good game @Edgar Allan Pillow
 
NM said:
Since I'm losing this one as well, I think I am honestly missing something from a draft perspective. Too many first round exits.. and I just don't see the how / why. Other than his defense, I think I'm just better. I get that feeling a few times in my eliminations, so I think I might step away for a bit.
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Only problem is CB positions for me. Understand the logic of putting someone like Ramos with Koeman because of his speed, but Ramos loved to venture forward (go to wonderland) as well and always had a solid defensive partner with him who was covering a bit for him as well (Pepe, Varane, Puyol). I mean, that and the fact EAP has Baresi and Stam of all people so that issue becomes even more highlighted.

Still, I called it a draw just based on that midfield and especially attack. Van Basten - Ronaldo - Laudrup is brilliant. Very unfortunate draw for you.
 
NM said:
Since I'm losing this one as well, I think I am honestly missing something from a draft perspective. Too many first round exits.. and I just don't see the how / why. Other than his defense, I think I'm just better. I get that feeling a few times in my eliminations, so I think I might step away for a bit.

Good game @Edgar Allan Pillow
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In addition to Ramos and Koeman, I have a couple of issues. There is little width on the left if you want CR7 to play his normal game, neither a Marcelo or Di Maria behind him. This is why I asked about Laudrup, I really think he needs to play mostly in the inside left channel to make it work properly.

Also I have been heavily influenced by Sjor's comps on Neeskens and he doesn't look like a B2B in a two for me. In certain respects he is like Slippy G so I don't think he has the discipline to play the role you want him to.
 
NM said:
Since I'm losing this one as well, I think I am honestly missing something from a draft perspective. Too many first round exits.. and I just don't see the how / why. Other than his defense, I think I'm just better. I get that feeling a few times in my eliminations, so I think I might step away for a bit.

Good game @Edgar Allan Pillow
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I've been playing this for many years and ny first round success rate would be around 30% or so. Unless you are named Gio, it's just what it is. :lol:

I really like your team. If you had a different player for Ramos, then it'd be much closer tie. Your attack would have tilted the game in your favor.
 
I think I have only ever made a SF three times. I also go out loads of times a QFs and probably have 40% success rate in 1st rounds. I have regularly been playing drafts, badly it seems, since something like 2016.
 
NM said:
Since I'm losing this one as well, I think I am honestly missing something from a draft perspective. Too many first round exits.. and I just don't see the how / why. Other than his defense, I think I'm just better. I get that feeling a few times in my eliminations, so I think I might step away for a bit.

Good game @Edgar Allan Pillow
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For what it's worth, this is the best team you've ever put up and it's near perfect. I'd have voted for it if you had someone better than Ramos, particularly because Koeman is the other guy at CB.

I was just like you. I always used to get kicked out in the first round or two, but eventually, something just clicks and you start to see the trends. The draft community rates some players more than others and considers their suitability and combination with teammates and opponents quite a bit. After a few games you get the idea.

I realize I'm revealing my modus operandi here a little, but one of the things I do is to make sure I get a top defender really early, sometimes right after I pick up my top attacker who I'm likely to build my team around. You got to see it a bit in the draft thread where a whole bunch of people went after Kohler in round 2. With CBs, you're scrambling a little to make a pairing that will impress once you get past the first set of top-tier options so CB is a good area to prioritize. I went back and checked and you picked your first defender in round 5 - there's a small handful of others who picked defenders as late as you did and it's possible they'll struggle similarly if they get a tough draw.

Also, if you need to pay homage to the Draft Gods to not draw someone like Gio. It's said (in hushed tones) he's one of the Draft Gods himself.
 
Thanks all. It is what it is. Good game. I disagree on this one and think that seeing the same drafting patterns and players over and over is not my idea of fun.. but thanks
 
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