Heaven Draft: QF - Sjor vs Gio

[Physiocrat]

Sjor

Gio

Sjor Tactics

Considering the theme, its only fitting to have at least one Cruyff tribute in the draft! Replicating his Dream Team at Barca, more the spirit and idea then going like for like but in the end it should function very similar. Wont bulls***, original idea was to have Fenomeno in the false 9 position, then t*** mustard picked Stoichkov, i couldnt find pictures for Mahrez, Luis Enrique, Reus and the GOAT Finidi so it was time to move away from that idea. Back to the wing fatso, keys of the team goes to a bit of a forgotten man which i always like - Omar Sivori. Absolute maestro who should enjoy the role very much, good work rate, insane dribbler, shared a ball very well and combined in tight spaces, pretty much ideal guy to run the team.

Van der Sar, absolutely perfect keeper for the theme. Elite level defensive organizer, can play, quick of the line - everything you want from a keeper, at least what i want.
Maldini and Carlos Alberto as side centerbacks, Cruyff loved his side boys to be good footballers so going fullback route is the only right route. Both brilliant defenders with Alberto also being immense on the ball while Maldini is fine for a centerback. In the middle, marshalling the defence is Bobby Moore. Upgrade on Koeman in every possible way apart from the offensive standpoint where tbf Bobby still stands tall but its the thing that made Koeman special.

To go back to the Koeman point, where some of the attacking magic from deep will be recovered is having Pirlo in the Pep role. Controlling the game from the midfield base, princess in her natural habitat.
In front we have little duracell bunny again in Ardiles, now with a bit more freedom to play and Javier Zanetti who is absolutely crucial to the plan as when the team needs to transition to a back 4, its him that will drop back while Maldini will stay to partner Moore.

Already said everything goes through Sivori and to help him we have 2 absolute dreamboats out wide, Rooney and Fenomeno who should enjoy playing with Sivori. Those two combining could be a treat.
What i left for last is Thomas Muller as Jose Mari Bakero. Always thought its a remake match in heaven and wanted to do it for a long time and now its happening. Cruyff tribute, Fenomeno, Pirlo as Pep its all good but Muller as Bakero is what makes me adore this team.
So what is or what was the Bakero role in the Dream Team? Number 10 in position but the total opposite in the style of play. Bakero used to play with back to goal, turned towards his own goal and his aim was to keep the game simple, play short little passes backwards or sideways to up the tempo of the game and help creating gaps that will trio behind him exploit. When that happened he would pretty much turn into a striker and would go up in the box where he was a major threat with both his elite movement and finishing. Sounds familiar? One step ahead Herr Muller.

Gio Tactics

THE BLUEPRINT

ARGENTINA 1986: STRIPPED BACK AND REBUILT

Spoiler: 1986 tactics

The team is based on the Argentina's 1986 World Cup winning vintage that saw Maradona hit his absolute peak. Now it's true that Maradona kicked arse in every shape - for example as he did in the Napoli 4-3-1-2 - the idea here is to place him in a similar spot to the summer of 1986. And so we have attempted to build something similar that is based on the same tactical principles:

• A 3-5-1-1 shape with Diego in a front two.
  
  " “We understood each other instinctively,” Maradona said. “I had a perfect understanding with Valdano. If he went back, I’d stay forward and vice versa"
  
  Diego assumes the same roaming role off the top of the attack that he did in '86. Henry partners him to stretch the play both vertically and horizontally. I'd envisage that partnership as an upgrade on his complementary tandem with Cannigia later in his career. Similar to Valdano, Henry should be a nice ego fit next to Diego given how much he enjoyed being the creator as much as the finisher.
  
  
• A strong central midfield core that can both hold firm and support the attack.
  
  " “Argentina’s set-up was compact, and the defence had to know when to cover space, but the system was tailored to bringing the best out of Maradona, who propelled a group of already good players to a higher level. The system, especially the 3-5-2, combined compactness and pressing without the ball, and three attackers; Maradona, Jorge Burrachaga and Jorge Valdano combining and exercising flexibility – When Maradona would drop and receive the ball in deeper positions, Burruchaga would make runs forward from midfield.” "
  
  " When Maradona dropped back into his space, Burruchaga would push forward in support of Valdano. Although left alone with Pasculli on the bench, Valdano didn’t struggle – he pulled out to the right to isolate the defender, so he could receive the ball into his feet from deep and hold the ball up as those behind him joined the attack. Many forwards would simply stand and hold off defenders by shielding the ball with their body, but Valdano’s ability with his feet meant he would move the ball backwards and forwards, from foot to foot, while doing so, ensuring that defenders couldn’t be too aggressive in trying to win the ball back unless he twisted past them – that fear buying the midfielders more time to get forward."
  
  In Charlton and Breitner there are plenty of assists and goals to both service the front two and offer further routes to goal. Both can release the front two early and let them wreak havoc on the opposition back-line. Both have that "flexibility" to change positions. Charlton in particular can fulfill what Burruchaga did in offering a secondary threat, having the intelligence and thrust from midfield to spring forward should Diego drop deep.

The other aspects of the team are more functional but provide clear upgrades to the original blueprint:

1. A dedicated holder in Sergio Batista / Valery Voronin. Voronin comes in for Mauro Silva to strengthen the three-man midfield unit. I'd back him, Breitner and Charlton to take charge of the centre of the park.
2. Flank-dominating wing-backs in Cafu and Facchetti. Can drop into a defensive 5 to shut up shop, but can gallop forward to pen in Sjor and create width for Diego and friends to exploit in the middle.
3. A sweeper/libero flanked by a pair of proper defenders. Scirea won the previous World Cup in 1982 in a similar gig and I imagine he'd have a natural partnership with Costacurta in particular as a no-nonsense and aggressive stopper with plenty of experience at left-back. Djalma played this very role for Brazil in 1954 and as a defensively impeccable full-back he seems like a natural fit at RCB.

 

[Physiocrat]

@Gio @Šjor Bepo

Game on!

 

[Šjor Bepo]

1. Two striker formation vs Dream Team is perfect
2. Voronin wont be that useful against T. Muller
3. Gio's team is shit, when everyone wanks on something you know something stinks

 

[Physiocrat]

@Šjor Bepo What's your shape in the organised defensive phase? It seems like a back four with Zanetti at LB with Pirlo and Ardilles at CM but I'm not sure how the rest will play out. Will R9 end up as an LM?

 

[Šjor Bepo]

@Šjor Bepo What's your shape in the organised defensive phase? It seems like a back four with Zanetti at LB with Pirlo and Ardilles at CM but I'm not sure how the rest will play out. Will R9 end up as an LM?

tbf it was written before the RR but yeah when needed Zanetti can drop and make a back 4, thing is, against this team that would be needed that often if at any team. Plan would be to congest the middle and push gios attack to wide areas, if i get beat because of Cafu and Facchetti delivering towards Henry and Maradona then so be it.
Congest the middle, try to keep the ball as much as possible and when you cant try to exploit the counter as much as you can. Fenomeno, Rooney and Muller on the counter is deadly.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Surprised Gio dropped Schnellinger instead of Costacurta!

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Surprised Gio dropped Schnellinger instead of Costacurta!

why? Costacurta is the better player and more suited to a back 3.....

Its happening with Krol as well, people know one version played as a fullback, other as a centerback(both as a sweeper which makes it even worse) and then assume the player is perfect for a back 3 purely on that basis.

 

[Himannv]

Rooney is really out of his element on the right- I’d rather have him at 10 and switch him with Muller. I just feel he doesn’t know what he’s supposed to do when he plays on that side. LWF or 10 is a better position for him in my view.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Rooney is really out of his element on the right- I’d rather have him at 10 and switch him with Muller. I just feel he doesn’t know what he’s supposed to do when he plays on that side. LWF or 10 is a better position for him in my view.

If you read the OP you will see that Muller is crucial for the team and the team was pretty much built because of him in that role. I agree its not ideal for Rooney but again he wont mind to sacrifice for the team and im sure he would do well even if that isnt him at his absolute best.

 

[Trumpeter Whydah]

Sjor

On paper, this looks like a really strong XI, but is it?
- Your opponent is about to call the flanks his territory, and you give it to him without a fight? How is your midfield three going to oppose plays in the outer channels?
- Your two wide men up front are certainly capable of single-handedly deciding games, but just how much can you rely on that? It looks their forward momentum is rendered pretty useless with two guys in the offensive central, one of which being Sivori showing you his chest, and the other Müller who perhaps shines in chaos. Also, Wayne looks a bit off tbh.
- Your back three looks terrific of course, but how do you reckon will things turn out if a) Henry and Maradona run towards them in a counter, and b) if Pirlo has to shift to the left a bit so as to take Zanettis spot, who in turn falls back against their build-up play? That's a risk in my eyes.

- However, what I find you did well is partnering guys with a clear preference to flat passes. Your defence looks well prepared to win aerials, but in offence, you want to play it safe.
- Also, you have fielded very fit guys, which is a must in Cruyff-reminiscient totaalvoetbal.
- It is Edwin between the posts.

Gio

On paper, this XI doesn't look all that great, but it has a few things going for it.

- Everyone fielded is very much at home in your system, providing you a bit more formational experience than the opposition.
- Your front 'row of four' consists of four players that are known for knowing blindly where everyone is, which mostly makes up for the general inferiority on paper, I think.
- Your ground cover is superior to your opposition. Only soft spots are wide upfront, so it would be crucial that both wingbacks have it in them to run over ninety.
- Your central defence is top notch, as is your opponents, but might look better than theirs as it is not facing two guys threatening to run deep and behind.

However, there's also a meh or two.
- You write (correctly) that "the defence had to know when to cover space", and you are facing a team that seeks to punch through the middle via a stop'n'go, so they will face problems naturally when the opposition drags the tempo and than explodes.
- Strategically, it is risky to play for crosses by your wingbacks when Henry and Maradona are your target men. Both shine more in flat passing, I'm afraid.
- I don't see that Breitner excels in a Valdano role, this looks a bit out of role and lets me subtract a bit from your praised midfield compactness. Also, I have your fielded guys a tad less fit than your opposition, which should turn out to be crucial in the later stages of a match.
- Most importantly, how do you reckon would Voronin do against this bunch of incredibly accurate passers - runrunrun and then fall dead in minute 70? I have him as the weakest link, not so much because he'd lack skills, which in the face of these two titan XI he does, but more so because he can't really contribute much with his physical plusses. The ball is always faster.

***
In premium clashes such as this one, the decider is often which team can hold the nill longer, and I have Gio's XI in front here.

In terms of consistency between formation and game-plan, I see Sjor's XI in front, but again, to sac both flanks is close to ludacris.

In terms of pure will to fight, and fight back when behind, I have Gio's XI in front again.

In terms of fitness and potential extra time, I have Sjor's XI in front, and this makes me assume that Gio needs to score early, or switch Maradona and Breitner later, to keep fast counters in his repertoire; as time goes by, Sjor's XI would take over, I'd say. But, giving away both flanks for free should cost a heavy price, and Gio's XI can rotate to ensure not to free-fall in the last twenty or so minutes.

My two cents thus are on
Sjor 1 : 2 Gio

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Sjor

On paper, this looks like a really strong XI, but is it?
- Your opponent is about to call the flanks his territory, and you give it to him without a fight? How is your midfield three going to oppose plays in the outer channels?
- Your two wide men up front are certainly capable of single-handedly deciding games, but just how much can you rely on that? It looks their forward momentum is rendered pretty useless with two guys in the offensive central, one of which being Sivori showing you his chest, and the other Müller who perhaps shines in chaos. Also, Wayne looks a bit off tbh.
- Your back three looks terrific of course, but how do you reckon will things turn out if a) Henry and Maradona run towards them in a counter, and b) if Pirlo has to shift to the left a bit so as to take Zanettis spot, who in turn falls back against their build-up play? That's a risk in my eyes.

- However, what I find you did well is partnering guys with a clear preference to flat passes. Your defence looks well prepared to win aerials, but in offence, you want to play it safe.
- Also, you have fielded very fit guys, which is a must in Cruyff-reminiscient totaalvoetbal.
- It is Edwin between the posts.

First of all, cheers for the comment!
Im not giving anything, its a figure of speech but sometimes you have to pick a lesser evil and in this case its Facchetti and Cafu getting a bit more time on the ball rather then creating gaps for Charlton, Maradona and Breitner in the middle!
Not really sure whats the issue, attack is fairly similar(some in personel some in dynamics) to the original and it worked like a treat.
Phase 1: First third keeps the ball and circles until Koeman/Moore or Pep/Pirlo finds an oppening
Phase 2: More often then not that oppening is Bakero/Muller playing with back to the goal, receiving a pass and then playing one or max two touch towards the midfield which achieves 2 things: a) ups the tempo of the game b) buys the time for Sivori to find a pocked c) creates that pocket with drifting up after the initial pass
Phase 3: Sivori or one of the Fenomeno/Rooney picks up the ball and then its up to them. Cruyff/Sjor(jesus christ this looks awful haha) brings them to the final third, after that its on them to create and there is plenty of talent there to do that.

Regarding the defending counter: All front guys with exception of Fenomeno are hard working, defensively disciplined players that will help a lot in the defensive transition. Either Zanetti or Ardiles will always stay back to make sure Pirlo isnt getting exposed on the big open area and the one that went up has great engine and athletic capabilities to make a defensive recovery.

One of the biggest strengths of the Dream Team is side centerbacks joining the attacks, how would he defend for example Carlos Alberto going up? Henry and Diego wont do much tracking back, both Breitner and Charlton while being disciplined and hard working are first and foremost attacking players, specially Breitner who was much more like a n10 then like a n8. He has as many potential gaps as me.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

why? Costacurta is the better player and more suited to a back 3.....

Its happening with Krol as well, people know one version played as a fullback, other as a centerback(both as a sweeper which makes it even worse) and then assume the player is perfect for a back 3 purely on that basis.

Schnellinger is definitely a better fit as LCB. It fits his profile completely. He's a defensive fullback in mould of Djalma.

Honestly I don't think Krol is a good fit as LCB in a back 5. Both in his fullback and sweeper role he was flamboyant attacker. LCB is pretty much opposite of it defensively covering for a attacking fullback. He's versatile and can fit in well, but not really an optimal use of his talent.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Schnellinger is definitely a better fit as LCB. It fits his profile completely. He's a defensive fullback in mould of Djalma.

Honestly I don't think Krol is a good fit as LCB in a back 5. Both in his fullback and sweeper role he was flamboyant attacker. LCB is pretty much opposite of it defensively covering for a attacking fullback. He's versatile and can fit in well, but not really an optimal use of his talent.

Personally i was never impressed with Schnellinger at LB(looked very good as a sweeper) while Costacurta is a damn good defender and id have him over the german any day of the week, fits nicely next to Scirea and Facchetti.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

@Gio no need for posting buddy, will do your battles for you #teamgazza

 

[Synco]

Omar Sivori. Absolute maestro who should enjoy the role very much, good work rate, insane dribbler, shared a ball very well and combined in tight spaces, pretty much ideal guy to run the team.

Voted for Gio, but also wanted to quote this - one of the many 50s and early 60s legends who probably should be up there with the all-time regulars in status.

Spoiler: compilations

 

[Trumpeter Whydah]

...sometimes you have to pick a lesser evil and in this case its Facchetti and Cafu getting a bit more time on the ball rather then creating gaps for Charlton, Maradona and Breitner in the middle!

You have a very strong point here. I confess that I did put a lot of emphasis on ground control, perhaps too much. I will delete my last line - the end result - and possibly recast my vote if I can't argue well enough here.

Not really sure whats the issue, attack is fairly similar(some in personel some in dynamics) to the original and it worked like a treat.

This is certainly true, with regards to phases 1-3, that is, when you have posession. My remark however was on playing against it, that's where I thought one big liability is.

One of the biggest strengths of the Dream Team is side centerbacks joining the attacks, how would he defend for example Carlos Alberto going up?

I give you credits for focussing on centrebacks making deep runs. I simply did not have that on my radar. Must have been the idea that this wasn't all that common back in the days, but I agree that certainly Alberto does bring that to the table.

Regarding the defending counter: All front guys with exception of Fenomeno are hard working, defensively disciplined players that will help a lot in the defensive transition. Either Zanetti or Ardiles will always stay back to make sure Pirlo isnt getting exposed on the big open area and the one that went up has great engine and athletic capabilities to make a defensive recovery.

You can do that, but it looks a bit constructed to counter what I wrote; after all, if you do that, than your phases 1-3 look different from what you gave above, I think. But your main point, from what I understand, is:

Henry and Diego wont do much tracking back, both Breitner and Charlton while being disciplined and hard working are first and foremost attacking players, specially Breitner who was much more like a n10 then like a n8. He has as many potential gaps as me.

And here I'm not so sure. Yes, following the logic that your XI will simply dissect their opposition, but also no, as you are facing a compact and physically slightly stronger unit that has its holes where it hurts least. You have yours where it may hurt big time, I'd say.

'Prove'/argue me wrong and I'll be quick in reassessing - neither am I used to this draft format, nor am I free of guilt when it comes to having judged your epic XI a bit tougher than Gio's, and I can see myself recalibrate without the (in)famous underdog sympathy, which it looks like I've fallen for; I give you that.

So: Can you elaborate a bit on how you intend to defend against their build-up? Who covers wide left (behind Gaúcho) and who right if Rooney is overplayed, or if Rooney is still centrally placed from pressing their backline?

 

[Šjor Bepo]

You have a very strong point here. I confess that I did put a lot of emphasis on ground control, perhaps too much. I will delete my last line - the end result - and possibly recast my vote if I can't argue well enough here.

No need to delete anything, as for the vote....i dont see the result but i seriously doubt it matters

This is certainly true, with regards to phases 1-3, that is, when you have posession. My remark however was on playing against it, that's where I thought one big liability is.

dont really understand what you mean here

You can do that, but it looks a bit constructed to counter what I wrote; after all, if you do that, than your phases 1-3 look different from what you gave above, I think. But your main point, from what I understand, is:

why? There is absolutely no need both of them to go up. Phases look the same as its their job to provide a pass into the final third towards Sivori, Fenomeno etc. and after that if needed one can join in. Honestly cant see why and how would that change the phases i talked about earlier.

And here I'm not so sure. Yes, following the logic that your XI will simply dissect their opposition, but also no, as you are facing a compact and physically slightly stronger unit that has its holes where it hurts least. You have yours where it may hurt big time, I'd say.

And where exactly do i hurt the most? Out wide where i face Facchetti and Cafu with Diego and Henry waiting for service? Gio has a great team or to be precise a team with great players but where i see my advantage is that i have a system in place while he doesnt, i intentionally picked "lesser" players so the few stars i have get the best possible chance to shine and showcase the talent. Take for example Breitner and Charlton, id put my arm and leg in fire how sure i am that both wotn be at their absolute best if either(nothing against it, i sacrificed Rooney for example). Does system always wins? Nope but it ups your chance every time if done correctly.

'Prove'/argue me wrong and I'll be quick in reassessing - neither am I used to this draft format, nor am I free of guilt when it comes to having judged your epic XI a bit tougher than Gio's, and I can see myself recalibrate without the (in)famous underdog sympathy, which it looks like I've fallen for; I give you that.

dont worry mate, if everyone acted like you in a match thread it would be a much better game

So: Can you elaborate a bit on how you intend to defend against their build-up? Who covers wide left (behind Gaúcho) and who right if Rooney is overplayed, or if Rooney is still centrally placed from pressing their backline?

It obviously depends from situations to situations. He has a fairly narrow team so it wouldnt be that difficult to shift the whole team from side to side so while the plan would be to "give" Cafu space in the buildup, if he went into my final third then its Maldini who would step up, if he tries to go more in the middle there is Zanetti who is covering.
As dumb as that might sound, im not that bothered with Cafu or specially Facchetti having the ball in first two thirds of the pitch. In fact id applaud it and hope they have the ball for majority of the time. Hard to explain the defending when you dont set up a specific situation but hope you got the answer you wanted.

 

[Gio]

@Gio no need for posting buddy, will do your battles for you #teamgazza

Doing a grand job. Sitting here eating my dinner and happy to leave you to it.

Sjor

On paper, this looks like a really strong XI, but is it?
- Your opponent is about to call the flanks his territory, and you give it to him without a fight? How is your midfield three going to oppose plays in the outer channels?
- Your two wide men up front are certainly capable of single-handedly deciding games, but just how much can you rely on that? It looks their forward momentum is rendered pretty useless with two guys in the offensive central, one of which being Sivori showing you his chest, and the other Müller who perhaps shines in chaos. Also, Wayne looks a bit off tbh.
- Your back three looks terrific of course, but how do you reckon will things turn out if a) Henry and Maradona run towards them in a counter, and b) if Pirlo has to shift to the left a bit so as to take Zanettis spot, who in turn falls back against their build-up play? That's a risk in my eyes.

- However, what I find you did well is partnering guys with a clear preference to flat passes. Your defence looks well prepared to win aerials, but in offence, you want to play it safe.
- Also, you have fielded very fit guys, which is a must in Cruyff-reminiscient totaalvoetbal.
- It is Edwin between the posts.

Gio

On paper, this XI doesn't look all that great, but it has a few things going for it.

- Everyone fielded is very much at home in your system, providing you a bit more formational experience than the opposition.
- Your front 'row of four' consists of four players that are known for knowing blindly where everyone is, which mostly makes up for the general inferiority on paper, I think.
- Your ground cover is superior to your opposition. Only soft spots are wide upfront, so it would be crucial that both wingbacks have it in them to run over ninety.
- Your central defence is top notch, as is your opponents, but might look better than theirs as it is not facing two guys threatening to run deep and behind.

However, there's also a meh or two.
- You write (correctly) that "the defence had to know when to cover space", and you are facing a team that seeks to punch through the middle via a stop'n'go, so they will face problems naturally when the opposition drags the tempo and than explodes.
- Strategically, it is risky to play for crosses by your wingbacks when Henry and Maradona are your target men. Both shine more in flat passing, I'm afraid.
- I don't see that Breitner excels in a Valdano role, this looks a bit out of role and lets me subtract a bit from your praised midfield compactness. Also, I have your fielded guys a tad less fit than your opposition, which should turn out to be crucial in the later stages of a match.
- Most importantly, how do you reckon would Voronin do against this bunch of incredibly accurate passers - runrunrun and then fall dead in minute 70? I have him as the weakest link, not so much because he'd lack skills, which in the face of these two titan XI he does, but more so because he can't really contribute much with his physical plusses. The ball is always faster.

***
In premium clashes such as this one, the decider is often which team can hold the nill longer, and I have Gio's XI in front here.

In terms of consistency between formation and game-plan, I see Sjor's XI in front, but again, to sac both flanks is close to ludacris.

In terms of pure will to fight, and fight back when behind, I have Gio's XI in front again.

In terms of fitness and potential extra time, I have Sjor's XI in front, and this makes me assume that Gio needs to score early, or switch Maradona and Breitner later, to keep fast counters in his repertoire; as time goes by, Sjor's XI would take over, I'd say. But, giving away both flanks for free should cost a heavy price, and Gio's XI can rotate to ensure not to free-fall in the last twenty or so minutes.

My two cents thus are on
Sjor 1 : 2 Gio

Great fresh feedback. Just a couple of minor points:

- width up front - the rationale for choosing Maradona and Henry in this shape was because they were both great centrally and out wide. Maradona roamed right across the front line and was equally potent from any position. Henry similar but not to the same degree, but enjoyed isolating a defender out wide only to surge past them. This is him up against a back 3 and really exposing them in wide areas.


Alongside that the two no 8s in Breitner and Charlton both have the experience of having played out wide which means they can instinctively support those areas. Which means we could ideally get Charlton, Facchetti and Henry ganging up in those areas, and similarly on the other side through Breitner, Cafu and Maradona.

 

[Trumpeter Whydah]

- width up front - the rationale for choosing Maradona and Henry in this shape was because they were both great centrally and out wide.

I think I rated that, yes, but I think I should clarify nonetheless. What I had in mind with regards to your 'soft spots' being 'wide up front' was a bit crypric... I meant that that there is hardly any soft spot in your formation against the ball. If any, than against your oppositions wingbacks; you invite them to have the ball, and press once they release it, so to say. I rate that heavily in your favour, perhaps too heavily as indicated in my reply to Sjor's reply.

Of course, the same goes in the other direction, as pointed out by Sjor: actually, both sides allow the opposing wingbacks to carry the ball and intend to a) recover it centrally (rather you, 3-5-2) or b) isolate the play (rather Sjor, 3-4-3). This is where I wanted to go with my initial critique, but missed it in the end (also dinner...): it's topic for back threes that you miss a man in attack, counterintuitive but simple, and as a result, you then ask about how you intend to spread the opposition such that you find a channel in behind, and for that, we want to know how the ball circulates if the channel is covered and pkay must be shifted away.

Henry - well, I mean, I'm not in need of being convinced he was as great as it gets. To me, he is the epitome of a modern striker. That game against Italy however showcased more than anything how obscenely good the French midfield was, while Henry was really only just allowing glimpses at what would come from him. Ok, another story.

Alongside that the two no 8s in Breitner and Charlton both have the experience of having played out wide which means they can instinctively support those areas. Which means we could ideally get Charlton, Facchetti and Henry ganging up in those areas, and similarly on the other side through Breitner, Cafu and Maradona.

It's nice that you mention that, because when Sjor replied with fluidity in double/single pivot against the ball (paraphrasing here) against my arguement that he faces problems leaving the flanks to you, I could not really see that, given that you always threaten to move the ball from flank to flank quickly thanks to your two #8 relay stations. But now you seem to be much inclined to seek overloading plays with a wingback, an eight and a wide forward on either side, which in my book only plays into Sjor's hands. Now it becomes clear cut how Zanetti and Ardiles support Pirlo in the pocket, and he closes your wing with minimal danger of exposing the other side channels.
I'm afraid I have to ask you, are you ok with exposing yourself to dispossessions at a very bad time, or will the far #8 drop, or how do you shift when overloading one of their wings?

And where exactly do i hurt the most? Out wide where i face Facchetti and Cafu with Diego and Henry waiting for service? Gio has a great team or to be precise a team with great players but where i see my advantage is that i have a system in place while he doesnt, i intentionally picked "lesser" players so the few stars i have get the best possible chance to shine and showcase the talent. Take for example Breitner and Charlton, id put my arm and leg in fire how sure i am that both wotn be at their absolute best if either(nothing against it, i sacrificed Rooney for example). Does system always wins? Nope but it ups your chance every time if done correctly.

No, you hurt your opponent most in the inner channels, it's where you dominate. Of course, be allowed to benefit from a too offensively posted wingback of his and you cash in, no doubt about that.
You get hurt out wide, was my first impression, but you did a good job of explaining that away, plus I have obviously assumed wrong roles for Gio's two #8 in attack.

You wrote:
"He has a fairly narrow team so it wouldnt be that difficult to shift the whole team from side to side..."
and that lays the finger on the wound. Not that difficult indeed, if say Breitner loses himself on a wing, but terribly difficult imo if he stays a relay station and your back three can jump over to the other side, and plain impossible to cover channels when they are lightning fast.

OK, I hope I used my fifth post wisely and that it brings across a point or two. Orherwise, see you tomorrow, hehe.
Lastly, thanks for the cheering words, I just try to reflect the levels I am seeing in this draft section, so that goes out to all of you.

 

[Gio]

Sjor

Sjor Tactics

Considering the theme, its only fitting to have at least one Cruyff tribute in the draft! Replicating his Dream Team at Barca, more the spirit and idea then going like for like but in the end it should function very similar. Wont bulls***, original idea was to have Fenomeno in the false 9 position, then t*** mustard picked Stoichkov, i couldnt find pictures for Mahrez, Luis Enrique, Reus and the GOAT Finidi so it was time to move away from that idea. Back to the wing fatso, keys of the team goes to a bit of a forgotten man which i always like - Omar Sivori. Absolute maestro who should enjoy the role very much, good work rate, insane dribbler, shared a ball very well and combined in tight spaces, pretty much ideal guy to run the team.

Van der Sar, absolutely perfect keeper for the theme. Elite level defensive organizer, can play, quick of the line - everything you want from a keeper, at least what i want.
Maldini and Carlos Alberto as side centerbacks, Cruyff loved his side boys to be good footballers so going fullback route is the only right route. Both brilliant defenders with Alberto also being immense on the ball while Maldini is fine for a centerback. In the middle, marshalling the defence is Bobby Moore. Upgrade on Koeman in every possible way apart from the offensive standpoint where tbf Bobby still stands tall but its the thing that made Koeman special.

To go back to the Koeman point, where some of the attacking magic from deep will be recovered is having Pirlo in the Pep role. Controlling the game from the midfield base, princess in her natural habitat.
In front we have little duracell bunny again in Ardiles, now with a bit more freedom to play and Javier Zanetti who is absolutely crucial to the plan as when the team needs to transition to a back 4, its him that will drop back while Maldini will stay to partner Moore.

Already said everything goes through Sivori and to help him we have 2 absolute dreamboats out wide, Rooney and Fenomeno who should enjoy playing with Sivori. Those two combining could be a treat.
What i left for last is Thomas Muller as Jose Mari Bakero. Always thought its a remake match in heaven and wanted to do it for a long time and now its happening. Cruyff tribute, Fenomeno, Pirlo as Pep its all good but Muller as Bakero is what makes me adore this team.
So what is or what was the Bakero role in the Dream Team? Number 10 in position but the total opposite in the style of play. Bakero used to play with back to goal, turned towards his own goal and his aim was to keep the game simple, play short little passes backwards or sideways to up the tempo of the game and help creating gaps that will trio behind him exploit. When that happened he would pretty much turn into a striker and would go up in the box where he was a major threat with both his elite movement and finishing. Sounds familiar? One step ahead Herr Muller.

I've toyed with trying that formation a few times but never been able to pull it off. This is probably the best attempt at the defence I've seen. It's true to Cruyff's ambitious approach ahead and kudos for the brass balls to, rightfully, use Pirlo at the base of midfield in the Pep role. Might be the best use of Muller as well, he's absolutely bang on in the middle there. Like Sivori too as he shares traits with the other 343 diamond false 9s in Laudrup and Ronald de Boer.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I've toyed with trying that formation a few times but never been able to pull it off. This is probably the best attempt at the defence I've seen. It's true to Cruyff's ambitious approach ahead and kudos for the brass balls to, rightfully, use Pirlo at the base of midfield in the Pep role. Might be the best use of Muller as well, he's absolutely bang on in the middle there. Like Sivori too as he shares traits with the other 343 diamond false 9s in Laudrup and Ronald de Boer.

cheers gio, not the best use of Rooney and Fenomeno but it was the best i could have think of while switching tactic which was a must for me.

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

One thing i'm not sure for Pirlo-Pep is that Guardiola was quite a bit more collective/systematic with his short/medium range passing, while Pirlo often had the inclination to decide things himself with higher risk, longer range passes and through balls. He was a player best suited for removing the need of a Bakero/Muller type in further up in the centre, not methodically facillitating them being the ones to open things up, and worked best with direct vertical Attacking-mid threat like Kaka and more traditional 9/9.5 presence in front imo.

He has the vision and technical skills to easily to do the job tactically, but i have a feeling that at least some of the time he'll be unable to resist his passes that would be looking to play one of the front three/Muller straight in, and end up bypassing/making more difficult the way Bepo wants the offense set up.

That said, maybe i have Milan Pirlo too much to the forefront in memory, i didn't really pay the same attention to him later at Juventus as far as his tactical role went.

 

[Synco]

One thing i'm not sure for Pirlo-Pep is that Guardiola was quite a bit more collective/systematic with his short/medium range passing, while Pirlo often had the inclination to decide things himself with higher risk, longer range passes and through balls. He was a player best suited for removing the need of a Bakero/Muller type in further up in the centre, not methodically facillitating them being the ones to open things up, and worked best with direct vertical Attacking-mid threat like Kaka and more traditional 9/9.5 presence in front imo.

Agree with this observation. Watching ~2010 Milan games, Pirlo's directness and inclination to attacking long balls was one of the main takeaways. (Other ones were his & also Ronaldinho's defensive discipline.) His passing % must have been a good deal below what we're used to nowadays from world class DLPs.

But, as you say, he's well equipped to play that more possession-oriented role as well. I usually go with "different times, different styles" on these questions of tactical repurposing for drafts, and assume footballers would adapt within their range of ability. If Pirlo would play today, I have no doubt he could adapt to contemporary demands of collectivism and risk management. Would think this probably goes for this more classic team too.

(edit: reading through it again, Cruyff's Dream Team was of course before Pirlo's DLP days, so it's "different styles" more than anything.)

Also:

That said, maybe i have Milan Pirlo too much to the forefront in memory, i didn't really pay the same attention to him later at Juventus as far as his tactical role went.

Same here, would be interesting what others say. Also about 2010s Italy NT.