Heaven Draft - Final: Pat vs Gio

With players at their peak, who would win?


  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .

Physiocrat

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Pat

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Gio

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Pat Tactics

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Formation: 4-2-3-1

The Xavi and Di Stefano dynamic has been a divisive issue throughout the draft, and after much rumination and furrowing of the brow I've decided that it's one headache too many against Gio's latest juggernaut. In truth, this mightn't have been an ideal assignment for Xavi anyway - imposing a proper dominance of possession against this opposition is a tough ask in a team that was never really built around Xavi, and with their multitude of gifted ball-carriers there'll be a requirement to defend across large areas that's better suited to thoroughbred athletes like Seedorf and new signing Duncan Edwards. In any case, the keys to the kingdom well and truly belong to The Don now.

  • The defence remains unchanged with the two highly mobile CBs flanked by an aggressive attacking LB in Krol on one side, and the more reserved Bergomi on the other wing. There's an abundance of recovery pace there to enable us to push the line up during possession phases, and no shortage of backs-to-the-wall grit and defensive nous when we're under the cosh.
  • Whatever permutation of Maradona/Charlton/Best etc etc etc the opposition field is clearly going to mandate a heavyweight defensive presence in our midfield, and to that end we prioritised Edwards in the reinforcement round - an athlete and ball-winner of the highest calibre with an innate gift for reading and imposing himself on a match. Seedorf's top-notch all-around skill set and versatility enabled him to round off all manner of midfield units throughout the 90s and 00s and so it should prove here: he has the technical ability to mesh with Di Stefano, the athleticism to defend against Best, Maradona and company, and the propensity to wor the right-sided channels that will enable him to dovetail with Robben.
  • Both Stoichkov and Robben possess pretty much the full complement of weapons that you'd want from your wide attackers, but there'll be a different emphasis for each that plays to their respective strengths. With a CF in Denis Law who will want to drop off and contribute to the build up, Stoichkov will channel his prodigious energy towards making off-the-ball runs behind Gio's defence. On the other flank, we want Robben orientated more towards driving forward with the ball from deeper areas.
Gio Tactics

The draft started as a rebuild of Argentina 1986 and to close the loop on Diego Maradona it now finishes by drawing inspiration from his Napoli side of 1984-1987.

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Back by popular demand is Thierry Henry. His job is to stretch the play both horizontally and vertically. His natural selflessness (as shown for example by the 20 assists in EPL 2002/03) makes him an easy foil for the more dominant personalities elsewhere in the attack. He shares many of the same traits as Claudio Caniggia - electric pace, works the channels, loves to peel left and then drive back inside. Maradona's partnership with Caniggia is so much more than the sum of their parts there is a 30-minute film just on their link-up play for club and country.

With Maradona / Henry feeling fairly natural - hypothetically speaking - a real-life tandem is renewed as George Best and Charlton hook up together again. Best is backed up by Cafu behind him, and will be well serviced by Charlton's range and Maradona dropping into the hole, allowing him the freedom to do both the traditional wingplay and the head-for-goal stuff that characterised his game.

To draw a real-life comparison, Best will play a similar role to Daniel Bertoni who operated off the right in Napoli's 4-3-1-2 in the mid-1980s. Bertoni was cut from the same cloth as Best as a silky winger/forward who could play on both sides and loved to twist inside and outside defenders. In their 1984/85 campaign together, Bertoni enjoyed the best season of his career, scoring 15 in 34 games, while Maradona's campaign was the highest rated by the Italian media of his time in Europe.

The midfield trio balances the defensive discipline of Valery Voronin who has just the sort of GOAT-slaying CV to slow down Di Stefano. Alongside him Johan Neeskens is chosen ahead of Paul Breitner for his mobility, tenacity and high-octane two-way game (see Salvatore Bagni). Bobby Charlton brings it all together in his own unique multi-faceted way, and should relish the passing outlets he has on both flanks. In particular he will be extremely hard to stop getting on the end of cut-backs from the likes of Best and Henry, or even just firing shots from the edge of the box after Diego has danced around a challenge or two to create space.

In defence Gaetano Scirea is in command - he has Voronin just ahead to protect and cover - and has a classic stopper in Costacurta who, used to getting ordered about by Baresi, will be in familiar territory. Both full backs are from the top shelf in Cafu and Facchetti, solid defensively where Facchetti's physical and athletic prowess makes him a robust fit for the Robben/Rummenigge axis of Pat's attack. They are key to influence the shape of the match through their almost unmatched two-way games.
 
One interesting wrinkle here is Sir Bobby facing off in the middle of the park against possibly the two players he esteemed more than any others.

Sir Bobby on Duncan Edwards:

Sir Bobby Charlton said:
Duncan Edwards is the one person who, even today, I really felt inferior to. I’ve never know anybody so gifted and strong and powerful with the presence that he had.

Sir Bobby Charlton said:
Well, if you look at most players they’re good at certain things; in the air, with their left or right foot, they read the game well, or have pace. But Duncan had it all – he really was better at everything than anyone else. From the first moment I saw him he could play anywhere and do anything; he was brave, great in the tackle, could pass it long or short and score goals. When I arrived at United I was told there were a lot of good players, but Duncan was the only one who could do things I knew I wasn’t capable of.



Sir Bobby on Alfredo Di Stefano:

Sir Bobby Charlton said:
Who is this man? He takes the ball from the goalkeeper; he tells the full-backs what to do; wherever he is on the field he is in position to take the ball; you can see his influence on everything that is happening… I had never seen such a complete footballer. It was as though he had set up his own command centre at the heart of the game. He was as strong as he was subtle. The combination of qualities was mesmerising.

Sir Bobby Charlton said:
Alfredo di Stéfano is maybe the greatest player I have ever seen. I watched him in a match when Manchester United played against Real in the semi-final of the European Cup in Madrid the year before the accident. In those days, there was no substitutes' bench; if you weren't playing, you were in the stand. I felt like I was looking down on what looked like a Subbuteo table—I was that high up—but I couldn't take my eyes off this midfield player and I thought, Who on earth is that?

He ran the whole show and had the ball almost all the time. I used to dream of that, and I used to hate it when anyone else got it. They beat us 3-1 and he dictated the whole game. I'd never seen anything like it before—someone who influenced the entire match. Everything went through him. The goalkeeper gave it to him, the full backs were giving it to him, the midfield players were linking up with him and the forwards were looking for him.

And there was Gento playing alongside and Di Stefano just timed his passes perfectly for him. Gento ran so fast you couldn't get him offside. And I was just sitting there, watching, thinking it was the best thing I had ever seen.

Sir Bobby Charlton said:
He totally controlled the game. You looked at him and asked yourself: ‘how can I possibly stop him?

Sir Bobby Charlton said:
Di Stefano was simply the most intelligent football player I ever saw. Pelé was perhaps the better instinctive player, but Di Stéfano came onto the pitch and the game had been largely played out in his head. If I had one player to choose, out of all of them, to save my life, he'd be the one.

Could facing these two be enough to cow Charlton? Unlikely, given that the man competed with titans like Beckenbauer on even terms, but feck it, it's a final and I have to find something to post.
 
Could facing these two be enough to cow Charlton? Unlikely, given that the man competed with titans like Beckenbauer on even terms, but feck it, it's a final and I have to find something to post.
It would certainly be a proper battle in there. Fascinating how it would pan out. I suppose what you say about Charlton was his ability to adapt his approach to the needs of the game, be it the goalscoring match-winner, the dictating play-maker enabling others to win the match, or, as with Kaiser, adjusting his game entirely to ensure his team didn't lose.
 
Prominent United feel to this final.

I find Gio's offense very interesting, remarkable usage of the players. I think the Henry/Charlton combo on the left will work well to ensure Henry's roaming CF presence. I like the interlocking measures for balance throughout the team. Most of all the spotlight on Best's inside forward qualities.

Kinda hoped to see Pat trying to solve the Xavi/ADS "problem" with Edwards now in the mix, but this looks like a very clean, functional setup for Di Stefano with great player choices.

Two fine teams, undecided as of yet.
 
Really love the way Maradona is used here (upgrade from semi-final team). Pat is great as well, but Gio's team just tickles my imagination a bit more.
 
Unaware that the idea isn't so much to challenge the two managers with problems they could potentially face, and thus daring to blurt straight out as a debutant, I subsequently wanted to stay out and approach you guys in a nicer way (hereby offer to host a future 'Zoo Draft' when time comes, now that I read through some earlier rounds).
But then, the two teams presented above made me change my mind; it's just too much footy cinematicts they evoce in my head. So I voted, against Di Stefano, sacrilege! and for Shilton, who I'm sure likes to see Maradona on his side. To me, it boiled down to Bergomi/Seedorf haveing to deal with overpaceing Henry, good luck with that; and, I confess, to my admiration for Neeskens, who as a youngster played very close to where I live, and is still seen as among to best players to ever have played here.
Thanks for the cinema, guys, and the offer stands.
 
Unaware that the idea isn't so much to challenge the two managers with problems they could potentially face, and thus daring to blurt straight out as a debutant, I subsequently wanted to stay out and approach you guys in a nicer way (hereby offer to host a future 'Zoo Draft' when time comes, now that I read through some earlier rounds).

Challenging them is encouraged and makes the thread more fun.
 
Voted Gio by the narrowest of margins. Both teams are equally strong imo, but I dig the creative setup.
 
Well played @Gio ! Looked nailed on to win this draft from early on, and that innovative and inspired new team shape for this match quashed any chance of an upset here.

You absolutely killed me in the reinforcement round you bastard. I was strangely comfortable with you getting Best, but preventing me getting Robson just ruined me. If I'd been able to point to Robbo's heroics vs Maradona, as well as Sir Bobby's hero worship of Duncan and and Di Stefano, I might have had a better chance. I then spent hours upon hours looking for Finney being in contact with Bobby Moore, with the idea of moving McGrath into a destroyer role in midfield. Turns out they filmed an episode of a Question of Sport together:

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and Finney even briefly played alongside Moore and managed him when he was player-manager of England Amateurs for a tour of the Far East and New Zealand in 1961, but I'll be damned if I could find any photo or video of them actually making contact.
 
Cheers @Pat_Mustard, confess to being slightly guilty of being aware of what you might have needed in the last couple of reinforcement rounds. :wenger:

Went down the same two rabbit holes - that Question of Sport episode and the England tour in 1961 - with Moore. Even dug out Finney's book to see if he had any non-internet photos of the pair of them.
 
Cheers @Pat_Mustard, confess to being slightly guilty of being aware of what you might have needed in the last couple of reinforcement rounds. :wenger:

Went down the same two rabbit holes - that Question of Sport episode and the England tour in 1961 - with Moore. Even dug out Finney's book to see if he had any non-internet photos of the pair of them.

:lol: I love it. I've bought a few books on Kindle with the short-term imperative of winning a draft match in mind. Keegan and Toshack's autobiographies for example. This one seemed a good bet for some unearthed photos:

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But Amazon had that 'search inside' feature and it drew a blank. It wasn't on Kindle either. No bad thing as it costs 15 fecking quid. The pool was surprisingly bleak for that round. Was also searching forlornly for the likes of Giles, Mackay, Souness and Scholes to no avail. Sir Tom certainly kept it low-profile in his retirement.