Has Fergie lost his Midas touch in the Transfer Market?

Mush

Guest
In recent times it appears Fergie is getting left behind by his managerial peers in the UK (Wenger,Houllier)and in Europe, in the business of adding new, effective squad players. Considering it was Fergie who pioneered the need for a sizeable, strong squad to challenge for numerous honours, he seems to have lost the knack of adding quality squad players at value for money. Remember golden signings such as Irwin, a snip at £650,000, Solskjaer £1/2m, Cantona £1m, Bruce,less than £1m, Sheringham to name but a few. Since Fergie's last clearout he seems to have seriously overestimated the capabilities of his squad. Of late Fergie seems to prefer splashing out on the finished article players, with the price tags to match, such as Veron, V. Nistelrooy and Ferdinand (at huge costs), Fergie has left the issue of cover for certain positions to become a major talking point. All the top clubs in Europe (especially the Italians) have a canny knack of buying young talented players from all continents, at relatively cheap prices, to develop and use in their squads. If the signings don't work out they usually at least recoup their money or make a profit as the stock of players with potential will always rise. This was Fergie's thinking when he bought Kanchelskis at age 24 for around £750,000. "We can always sell him on", which he did for £4.5m.
Arsenal got value for money and a World Cup winner for that price this year. Both Wenger and Houllier seem to have good contacts in France for their talent. Wenger also taps into the Brazillian market very well too. The ultimate question I'm asking: Is Fergie's scouting system now failing to produce new talent?
 
Originally posted by Mush:
<strong> This was Fergie's thinking when he bought Kanchelskis at age 24 for around £750,000. "We can always sell him on", which he did for £4.5m.
</strong><hr></blockquote>


I think he was only 22. And I fell in love with him the minute I laid eyes on him. :(
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Only till the next one.

Wenger and Houllier can keep mining the French youth system for great young signings, as they are French themselves and they have the contacts and knowledge etc.

Ferguson is Scottish. At the moment there isn't much of a youth system to mine there. And we've got Stewart already.

It's a matter of opportunity as much as anything else. We did miss getting Rio at 18m and Bellamy for peanuts, but Rio may still turn out to be worth every penny, and Nardiello could be pretty cheap. Patience, fellow Reds. :)
 
You talk about players being cheap, Irwin, Bruce, Ole and soforth, but at the time that was quite alot of money. 1.2 for Cantona when the trasfer record was somewhere around the £3m mark isnt cheap. TBH there are a few buys fergie has made that didnt work out. Jordi, Blomqvist, Poborski I dont think were a great addition. Ole has to be the best as an addition. United have it seems always gone for high profile up and coming players. Pallister, Robson, Keane, Ince and have always paid good money, not cheap. I would rather try and bring players through the system than buy, as they are usually better players. thats why Chelsea are so poor, they have no blue blood in the team. I would rather wait for someone like Nardillo, Fletcher or Tate to come through than "gamble" money on an unproven youngster. Good yougsters will never be cheap.
 
OUOTE-You talk about players being cheap, Irwin, Bruce, Ole and soforth, but at the time that was quite alot of money. 1.2 for Cantona when the trasfer record was somewhere around the £3m mark isnt cheap.
If you equated those two transfers to todays British market with the record at £29.1m Fergie would get Cantona for around £11.6m and Irwin would cost something like £6.3m. It was pretty good business then and it would be now at the above prices. My point was not that Fergie has made many bad buys, but that he seems to now make very obvious signings, with less of an eye for those gem bargains.
 
Yeah yeah, we've been through this.

DM-He's lost it, he's senile
DM2-the cheap ones weren't cheap to begin with
SP-yes they were
DM2-bank on the youth system
SP-you can't expect a crop like that again
PB-Buy X,Y and Z. Stupid alphabet S,T,U,V,W,X,Y and Z I mean!
SP-too expensive!
PB-we have the money!
...
...
and so on.

<img src="graemlins/yawn.gif" border="0" alt="[Yawn]" />
 
i think fergie has been honest in saying he hasn't been looking for those type of buys recently...with the success of the players from the youth system and the good buys he already made...so he's supposed gone looking for "quality"...and not hidden quality...and so he splashed out on rvn, veron and ferdinand. i guess he felt he still needed to buy some cover with forlan...but i don't think he's overlooked these buys as much as decided united didn't need to worry about it for now...
 
In reply to the original post, messrs Houl and Weng have made some pretty shite buys in recent seasons e.g Barmby, Xavier, Wright, Wiltord,and Heskey to a certain degree, and also the fact the thieves have failed to secure a creative mid and how Arsenal have have failed to land a partner whom Henry can play alongside, so let's not taint SAF with the shite buy tag in recent years, yeah SAF has paid a lot more money perhaps, but isn't it interesting that two positions Arsenal and Liverpool fans have teased us about in recent years are coming back to haunt them, they both said we fecked up with Barthez- look at Arsenal now, and the thieves went on about how Gerrard was the top midfielder in Britain- look at him now.
 
The crux of the matter is Fergie went into this season buying Ricardo and one QUALITY player in Ferdinand, no arguement. But he had just got rid of Johnsen,Irwin,Yorke,Van Der Gouw,Culkin and Wallwork. Not all great contributors, but all first team squad members. To enter the season without any other signings was a mistake as we have seen. It is clear that the youth players who have come in at present have not made the impact of say the class of 92', and you would not expect them to. This is why I feel Fergie should have got one or two squad players in (not having to spend ridiculous money) to act as cover for the problems we have faced. Quality squad players can be bought Toure, Edu, Van Bronkhorst (Arse), Traore, Baros and Cheyrou for (Liverpool).
 
I though £19 million for Ruud has been a good buy. 50 goals in 70 matches.
Seba has played a massive role in our European form.
Forlan is starting to play well (thought he was outstanding on Saturday)
Ricardo - Only had a few starts (You can't expect a keeper to come in cold and be brilliant)
Rio - wait until he's had an injury free run.

Its easy to compare Fergie and that blind bastard at the Arse in the last 3 transfers but look at the return over the past 5 years.
 
Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>Look at the return over the last 10 years.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I was just going for the time Wenger has been there, might as well give the Gooners a fair comparision. You know what they're like, they'll only moan and whinge
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I happen to agree that SAF's buys over the last 2 seasons have a question mark over them.

Veron= amazing player BUT is it what we needed.

And how many Argies do well in the Prem?

Forlan= never been a finisher, scores wonder goals, is it what we needed?

And how many Uraguans do well in the Prem?

Ferdinand= great prospects but how many times has he been injured, question marks over his overall constitution.

I honestly believe that the wheels on transfers, the retirement and the dominance of Europe in his last season were the contributing factors. It didnt work, we lost to Levekeusen in the semis.

Now, SAF has decided to stay (great) but the upheaval, the players waiting for a new manager and then being denied, so to speak, the injuries and the lack of Prem form of both Forlan and Veron have bitten SAF on the arse a bit.

Make no mistake, even with our depleted squad and our "unbalanced team" we are still a force to be reckoned with this season.

BUT, I beieve it will be in January that UTD will be back, we need another forward, in fact we need two. I would not be suprised if we didnt win the Prem, in fact I would not be suprised if we won sweet FA, I wouldn't be happy but I'd still support my team. The simple fact of the matter is we are a team in transition, it should have ended at the start, but it didn't we are still transitional.

Did SAF cause all this, undoubtedly, does this make him a bad manager, nope.

BTW I am glad we have both Forlan and Veron, however, the state we are in is directly linked to the tranfer market and specifically to these players, it is not a slight on them, it is a simple matter of fact.
 
Everyone seems to have got the wrong end of the stick with what I'm trying to say. I've got no beef with who Fergie has brought in. I would not question any of those signings. I have the premise that most players who come to United have a turbulent first 2 years, only after that period do you see their true form. However, it has bothered me more who he has NOT brought in. No particular names here, but the fourth striker that was needed. The better cover in the full back positions, and possibly a winger who could play left or right as cover/competition for Beckham and Giggs. This is where Fergie has failed to produce.
 
Originally posted by Mush:
<strong>Everyone seems to have got the wrong end of the stick with what I'm trying to say. I've got no beef with who Fergie has brought in. ...

it has bothered me more who he has NOT brought in. ...</strong><hr></blockquote>

IMO you can't completely seperated these two things. The transfer budget is not unlimited. Therefore when he has brought in someone who is very expenisve but failed/unnecessary to us, he is set to miss the chance to bring in someone else who is more useful because the transfer budget has been wasted on a wrong player.
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I totally agree with the point made. We just never seem to buy any players for small fees any more. If you look at the Liverpool and Arsenal sides, a lot of their first team players cost less than 5 million. Arsenal have signed Cygan, Toure, Lauren, Lunjberg and even Pires for relatively small amounts, while Liverpool have signed most of their team for less than 5 million. For example Dudek, Riise, Hyypia, Henchoz, Diao, Baros.
 
Originally posted by Canadian Dee:
<strong>In reply to the original post, messrs Houl and Weng have made some pretty shite buys in recent seasons e.g Barmby, Xavier, Wright, Wiltord,and Heskey to a certain degree, and also the fact the thieves have failed to secure a creative mid and how Arsenal have have failed to land a partner whom Henry can play alongside.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Xavier was only ever bought as emergnecy cover, with Babbel out and Carragher injured. He only cost about £850,000 anyway.
Wiltord is on sublime form, and while it took him three years to settle (a good sign for Veron fans) he has made a big impact this season.
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Originally posted by 2Bullish:
<strong>And how many Argies do well in the Prem?

And how many Uraguans do well in the Prem?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I would ask you, how many Argies and Uruguayans have played in the Premiership at all.

The fact they do well elsewhere doesn't mean they don't cut it in the Prem, it's just that the good ones rarely go there.

Ayala, Samuel, Cambiasso, Aimar, Saviola, Crespo... do you think they wouldn't cut it in the Prem?

Those who have gone there have not been bad, it depends on your expectations, errr ummm, not many though (Poyet, Sava :D ).
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Originally posted by keithnolan:
<strong>I totally agree with the point made. We just never seem to buy any players for small fees any more. If you look at the Liverpool and Arsenal sides, a lot of their first team players cost less than 5 million. Arsenal have signed Cygan, Toure, Lauren, Lunjberg and even Pires for relatively small amounts, while Liverpool have signed most of their team for less than 5 million. For example Dudek, Riise, Hyypia, Henchoz, Diao, Baros.</strong><hr></blockquote>

In terms of quality and value the above signing are excellent, and what our rivals have done is add to the squad in the relevant position when needed, and the difference is in the standard of Arse's, Liverpool cover. With every one fit for all the big three teams, I still think Arsenal has the best options and depth of quality in reserve. e.g.
United Arsenal Liverpool
Veron Wiltord Diao
Butt Parlour Diouf
Neville Kanu Carragher
O'Shea Edu Traore
Brown Van Bronkhorst Baros
Forlan Cygan Cheyrou
Fortune Pennant Smicer
Richardson Luzhny Kirkland
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2bulls u just haven't got a clu: about what ure talking about. Not at all.
BULLSHITT ALL OF IT!

...shut up.
 
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