GSTQ vs Pat Mustard

Who will win the match?


  • Total voters
    11
  • Poll closed .

Pat_Mustard

I'm so gorgeous they want to put me under arrest!
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
GSTQ:

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MUSTARD:


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GSTQ:

Style of play -
Stay solid at the back, quick transitions from front to back, be lethal on the counters

Thoughts on my team -

1. The team more or less comprises exclusively of draft regulars almost all of whom can be categorized as positional greats even for an all time draft.
2. Fact that there are no square pegs in rounds holes in a straight forward symmetric formation means there is great balance in the team.
3. The team is neither top or bottom heavy nor is it attack or defense heavy. And yet, the team can score for fun and can also keep clean sheets for fun.

Only player who I would categorize as not a regular in all time drafts is Javi Martinez, so I would go into more details only about him. I am sure most have watched a decent bit of him, if not in the Bundesliga, at least in the UCL knockouts. But below is a quick refresher video. Based on below compilation, this is what he brings to the table -

1. Great at interceptions and tackling even in dangerous situations inside the box. Expert sliding tackler.
2. Excellent at shielding the ball in tight situations even deep in his own half or even against a multiple player press.
3. High emphasis on not just winning the ball back but making sure it gets forward quickly either through his own thrust forward or a smart layoff to a more advanced midfielder
4. Very good on the ball, can dribble well for a DM and can actually beat men with faints and turns. Excellent long passer.
5. Brilliant at getting the ball to the wide men high up the pitch from the central areas be its through a quick thrusted pass or through an accurate long ball.
6. Excellent first time pass and awareness of players up front, can trigger a sudden attack up front from deep through an unexpected first time pass which would be great on the counters.
7. Has a very good through ball on him, be it from the deep or from outside the box.
8. Smart scorer. Can score through shots just outside the box. Also incisive when the ball falls to him inside the box.
9. Excellent header of the ball, always a danger during set pieces.
10. Classic good looks as a bonus.



PAT MUSTARD:

Formation: Lopsided 4-4-2/4-3-3 hybrid

Off The Ball: A strong central defensive spine containing the commanding Southall, a complementary CB partnership of sweeping-and-covering specialist Belodedici and proactive stopper Cannavaro, and a robust midfield shield of Voronin and Cerezo. The dogged and tenacious FBs Amoros and McGrain face daunting assignments against Dzajic and Finney, although with Djalma and particularly Marzolini being fairly conservative FBs we should be able to double-up on the wingers when we're in our organised shape at least. It's a highly industrious unit overall, with no passengers in the defensive phase. Lewa, our most average player against-the-ball, has still done enough to pull his weight under the likes of Pep and Klopp. Best was a keen runner and tackler, De Bruyne's work rate is consistently impressive, and Keegan is simply exceptional in that regard.

On The Ball: There's a good seam of ability on the ball in deeper areas. Belo is a sharp passer off either foot, Voronin is skilful on the ball, and Cerezo had an excellent passing range. Amoros is a relentless overlapper and fine ball carrier who should be in his element providing width on our right wing here, with McGrain providing more of a playmaking presence on the opposite flank with his astute, progressive use of the ball. Ahead of them, Best has licence to either test Djalma on the outside or maraud infield, De Bruyne will create chances from his favoured attacking RCM berth, Lewa will provide the lethal cutting edge, and Keegan will basically be an irrepressible pain in the balls, disrupting an excellent opposition defence with his non-stop movement and hustle.
 
Good luck @GodShaveTheQueen

And very good luck to you @Pat_Mustard

And to you mate.

Took me a couple of looks at the squad after the draw to realize its a 4-4-2 and not a 4-3-3 with Keegan wide.

Great team as usual. My favorite part of it of course is the Cerezo-Voronin partnership. Cerezo almost exclusively gets used as a ball playing DM in drafts but this role suits him to a tee as well, especially with Voronin beside him who offers a lot of similar things on and off the ball while still being super complimentary. My only remark would be that their sides should be swapped with Voronin being naturally left footed. Although I can see why you preferred it this way w.r.t to symmetry.
 
Two well drafted sides in pinpointing high value players. Thought Pat might be more of a conventional 4-4-2 which might be easier on the eye and more straightforward to see the routes forward. I get that in practice it likely moulds into the set-up in the OP. Like the complementary use of the full-backs.

GSTQ looks particularly potent in that exceptional front 5, while the back line is rock solid.
 
Some tasty matchups in this one, particularly out wide. I think this would be a really tight game. Lots of class and strength in midfield and pace and trickery outwide.

Not convinced about Martinez in this country, but he has two of the best CBs in the draft behind him and absolute class ahead of him.

You can clearly see how both teams would work and what their threats are.
 
Not convinced about Martinez in this country

I am guessing you meant company.

As I did mention in the OP, he is definitely not a positional great. While I do believe his peak was exceptional in the early parts of last decade when he was immense in the Bayern midfield, injuries stopped him from gaining the longevity and absolute world class stature that would transcend eras. He definitely would have if not for injuries IMO.

But if you just look at those peak years, he would not look out of place in any squad as such. Brings such uniqueness to the DM role. Has the finesse you would expect from a Spaniard on the ball but then also adds a lot of strength and tenacity in front of the defense which you would not expect to see from say someone like a Busquets or Alonso. And while he did like to get struck in, he has to be one of the cleanest defensive midfielders I have seen. Had strong tackles and the physical strength to take on anyone but hardly ever dirty.
 
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And to you mate.

Took me a couple of looks at the squad after the draw to realize its a 4-4-2 and not a 4-3-3 with Keegan wide.

Great team as usual. My favorite part of it of course is the Cerezo-Voronin partnership. Cerezo almost exclusively gets used as a ball playing DM in drafts but this role suits him to a tee as well, especially with Voronin beside him who offers a lot of similar things on and off the ball while still being super complimentary. My only remark would be that their sides should be swapped with Voronin being naturally left footed. Although I can see why you preferred it this way w.r.t to symmetry.

Thanks man. First choices to partner Voronin were Redondo or Falcao but I was happy to end up with Cerezo, plumping for him over Gazza and Overath after much scratching of the chin. I do like him here with much more defensive support alongside him than he typically gets, and a bit more licence to get forward (something a bit more akin to his Roma role where he scored 25 goals in 104 appearances). You made me go back and give @harms a few more clicks on his Voronin videos, but Voronin is right-footed. To be honest I think I'd have used him on that side regardless as I wanted him in Zidane's zone.

Absolutely class team from you, and aside from the overall quality it's just a pain in the arse to have Best as your star man and then come up against Djalma. I did actually ponder shifting him to the other wing, and either playing Keegan from the left or even starting Keizer there instead, but then Marzolini was a top-notch defender as well. My only criticism, and this is more a personal foible than something I expect to get any real traction, is that as a general rule I'm not a huge fan of fielding two defensive FBs in the same team. Obviously Finney and especially Dzajic were supremely gifted in 1v1 situations and didn't need a supporting FB to decide a match, but I do feel that sacrificing that potential for overloads, opening up of passing lanes etc on both flanks is a big price to pay in terms of a team's overall threat and fluency in possession.
 
A bit of old-fashioned GIF-ery to show why I love Danny McGrain so much. He was a terrific defender, rugged and uncompromising, but from what I've seen he's not quite cream of the crop in 1v1s especially. He'd win most of them, but that extra gear that Maldini had, or even someone like Ashley Cole at his best, McGrain seemed to fall just short of. His on-the-ball ability really surprised me though. I was expecting an agricultural overlap and pump-it-into-the-box type of player, but his use of the ball was so much more adroit and cultured than that.

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Thanks for setting it up @Pat_Mustard

No problem mate.

Two well drafted sides in pinpointing high value players. Thought Pat might be more of a conventional 4-4-2 which might be easier on the eye and more straightforward to see the routes forward. I get that in practice it likely moulds into the set-up in the OP. Like the complementary use of the full-backs.

GSTQ looks particularly potent in that exceptional front 5, while the back line is rock solid.

I do love the symetry and tidiness of a classic 4-4-2 formation graphic, but I thought it was important to emphasise De Bruyne's role here, rather than risk people thinking I was deploying him as a touchline-hugging winger.
 
My only criticism, and this is more a personal foible than something I expect to get any real traction, is that as a general rule I'm not a huge fan of fielding two defensive FBs in the same team. Obviously Finney and especially Dzajic were supremely gifted in 1v1 situations and didn't need a supporting FB to decide a match, but I do feel that sacrificing that potential for overloads, opening up of passing lanes etc on both flanks is a big price to pay in terms of a team's overall threat and fluency in possession.

Its by design and has real life precedent as well in goat teams. For example, Sacchi's Milan had Maldini/Tassotti as fullbacks both of whom can be classified as defensive even if both were capable of linking up the ball up the flanks (Djalma and Marzolini were too). Same with Italy and Maldini/Bergomi.

Three reasons why it works well in this team IMO.

1. With a libero in place, especially a really expressive one like Figueroa, firstly it gives a lot of freedom to him knowing both the fullbacks are really capable defensively and can form a 3 man defensive cover when the libero moves forward and does not just limit him as a means of distribution from the back.
2. Secondly, all the front 6 including Martinez were very good attackers, add Figueroa to the mix and that is 7 outfield players who would all want to contribute in the attacking phase. With that in mind, 3 out of the 4 defenders being defensive is not an overkill IMO. Its not very different to the case of 1 fullback being defensive and 1 offensive with a normal sweeper-stopper combination. You have 3 proper defensive players and one more offensive player just like the here albeit with a different variation.
3. And most importantly, coming to team fluency, especially out wide, I think that is where Zidane and Neeskens really bring the best out of the system. Both Dzajic/Finney liked to move inwards and both Zidane/Neeskens liked to contribute from outwide as well. The transitions when the wingers move inwards and the midfielders move outwards would not just add to the team fluency but also be very difficult to track for any opposition IMO. Has the potential to really feck up the opposition's defensive shape and organization.
 
I did actually ponder shifting him to the other wing, and either playing Keegan from the left or even starting Keizer there instead, but then Marzolini was a top-notch defender as well.

As a team, I like this 4-4-2 definitely better than the 4-3-3 with Keegan wide. But I do think the latter was the better option for this game. The left side here is not ideal for Best at all IMO and that is not just because of the Djalma/Figueroa death trap. Neesekens was more that capable of defending outwide and that adds to the defensive strength that side has which can even completely limit a goat like Best. And then I am not sure Mcgrain offers a lot of offensive impetus from the left (a decent bit yes, but not like Amoros would)

Now if you shift to a 4-3-3 with Best outwide, as good as Marzolini was as a defender and as good as Forster was as a wide cover, there is a lot of potential to just overload and overwhelm that flank. Best and Amoros is scary going forward and then you have De Bruyne as the RAM who will have a huge impact on that flank. Add to that Zidane and Dzajic will add very little if any defensive cover on that flank unlike Neeskens/Finney would. All in all, looks like a much better setup for Best to be a match winner with a strong support cast. I would definitely have gone with this.
 
Its by design and has real life precedent as well in goat teams. For example, Sacchi's Milan had Maldini/Tassotti as fullbacks both of whom can be classified as defensive even if both were capable of linking up the ball up the flanks (Djalma and Marzolini were too). Same with Italy and Maldini/Bergomi.

Three reasons why it works well in this team IMO.

1. With a libero in place, especially a really expressive one like Figueroa, firstly it gives a lot of freedom to him knowing both the fullbacks are really capable defensively and can form a 3 man defensive cover when the libero moves forward and does not just limit him as a means of distribution from the back.

I'd largely agree with that although even then you could have one more attacking full-back. That said in modern setups Djalma and Marzolini would provide more going forward than they did historically.

As a team, I like this 4-4-2 definitely better than the 4-3-3 with Keegan wide. But I do think the latter was the better option for this game. The left side here is not ideal for Best at all IMO and that is not just because of the Djalma/Figueroa death trap. Neesekens was more that capable of defending outwide and that adds to the defensive strength that side has which can even completely limit a goat like Best. And then I am not sure Mcgrain offers a lot of offensive impetus from the left (a decent bit yes, but not like Amoros would)

I also agree on Best. Ideally he wants an overlapper on his side. He was a free roaming forward rather than a touch line hugger. If he was on the right with McGrain on his natural side I would buy it more (obviously it would cock up the use of De Bruyne).
 
I'd largely agree with that although even then you could have one more attacking full-back.

True. But I didn't want to go that route unless a goat fullback option turns up who is as good defensively as offensively. In an all time draft where running into goat wingers is a possibility, I would rather have a defensive fullback rather than one that adds one more attacking outlet in an already stacked attack. Would rather take 1-0 win than a 3-2 win or a 2-2 draw or 2-3 loss.
 
True. But I didn't want to go that route unless a goat fullback option turns up who is as good defensively as offensively. In an all time draft where running into goat wingers is a possibility, I would rather have a defensive fullback rather than one that adds one more attacking outlet in an already stacked attack. Would rather take 1-0 win than a 3-2 win or a 2-2 draw or 2-3 loss.

That's why Kevin Keegan is on Pat's side.
 
GSTQ already has good flair in the middle. I doubt having Figueroa in the middle adds more to his team than more attacking fullbacks. Plus given who Figueroa is, having two defensive FB's isn't really necessary for him to have his peak. A more supportive FB behind Best would have added more overall opportunities.
 
GSTQ already has good flair in the middle. I doubt having Figueroa in the middle adds more to his team

Heyy, am just following the footsteps of Johan Cruyff. If he could place Koeman behind Guardiola, who am I to question him and his great dream team.
 
Javi Martinez should be used more and more, he’s one of the best dmf in the world during early2010s but injuries ruin his career.
 
Good game @Pat_Mustard

This tie has sort of become a derby. Have drawn you in all of my last 3 participated drafts.

Well played mate! I never fancied my chances here tbh. Had a quick look back at those matches and was surprised to see I'd actually won one of them. Was getting unpleasant Liverpool vs Everton vibes about this derby, with me as Everton.
 
As I did mention in the OP, he is definitely not a positional great. While I do believe his peak was exceptional in the early parts of last decade when he was immense in the Bayern midfield, injuries stopped him from gaining the longevity and absolute world class stature that would transcend eras. He definitely would have if not for injuries IMO.

But if you just look at those peak years, he would not look out of place in any squad as such. Brings such uniqueness to the DM role. Has the finesse you would expect from a Spaniard on the ball but then also adds a lot of strength and tenacity in front of the defense which you would not expect to see from say someone like a Busquets or Alonso. And while he did like to get struck in, he has to be one of the cleanest defensive midfielders I have seen. Had strong tackles and the physical strength to take on anyone but hardly ever dirty.
Javi Martinez should be used more and more, he’s one of the best dmf in the world during early2010s but injuries ruin his career.
Agree with all of this. I think a handpicked role player of roundabout world class quality should always have a place in alltime drafts. Too much draft superman hyperbole otherwise imo, of course prime Martinez in his best role could do the job here.

Martinez was seriously good. He was the defensive presence Heynckes had requested from the Bayern right after taking office, but which he got only one year later. (After Bayern's painful 2012 finishing line collapse.) His arrival was an important factor in Bayern's level in that triple season, imo. He'd probably have more recognition today if Pep hadn't moved him to CB so quickly (not saying this move was wrong or anything.)
 
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I was on a Martinez hype train long time ago, adored him since Bilbao days but one draft got destroyed by @Balu iirc and it was about how his CL performances in were isolated case as he already played cb in the league or something like that so i stopped picking him after that :(
 
I was on a Martinez hype train long time ago, adored him since Bilbao days but one draft got destroyed by @Balu iirc and it was about how his CL performances in were isolated case as he already played cb in the league or something like that so i stopped picking him after that :(
Balu will know best, but I'd actually be surprised by that. I'm fairly certain the main CB duo in 12/13 was Boateng/Dante. Even under Guardiola Martinez played games at DM in the beginning. (Which I guess has influenced Pep's decision he needed something else long term?)

Are you sure Balu didn't mean his time at Bayern as a whole?
 
Dammit, I was planning to drop him but now have to reconsider. Why couldn't you stay banned synco :(
 
Balu will know best, but I'd actually be surprised by that. I'm fairly certain the main CB duo in 12/13 was Boateng/Dante. Even under Guardiola Martinez played games at DM in the beginning. (Which I guess has influenced Pep's decision he needed something else long term?)

Are you sure Balu didn't mean his time at Bayern as a whole?

cant really remember what exactly it was as it was long time ago but the major point was that his midfield peak was very short, at least for Bayern.

also, welcome back.
 
cant really remember what exactly it was as it was long time ago but the major point was that his midfield peak was very short, at least for Bayern.

also, welcome back.
Yeah, that's fair. I think it was enough to get a clear idea of the player's capabilities in that position (never watched him for Bilbao), but everyone has to decide that for themselves.
Dammit, I was planning to drop him but now have to reconsider. Why couldn't you stay banned synco :(
Sorry :(