Greatest National Team manager of all time?

tentan

Poor man's poster.
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
4,974
Come to think of it who wins this one?


Managers to win both a Euro/Copa America and a World Cup
Helmut Schon - Was also Runner up in a Euro and a WC final too
Vicente Del Bosque
Lionel Scaloni

Manager to win two World Cups
Vittorio Pozzo - Outright winner? But hey this was in the 30s, hell football was a different game back then, lack of competition/teams/quality etc


Is there actually an obvious one? The managers I have listed are the most successful for sure but does that make them the greatest?
Deschamps? Michels? Zagallo? Probably a few more I'm missing. Who would you say is the greatest?
 
Scolari would probably be up there if the 7-1 hadn't destroyed his reputation forever. 1 WC, 2 more semi appearances, 1 Euro runner-up. Great international record overall.
 
I don't know if Zagallo is the answer but he should at least be in the conversation, winning the WC in style in 1970 then coming back two decades later to be an assistant for the 1994 WC win, taking over as manager and winning the Copa America in 1995 then Copa finalists in 1997 and WC finalists in 1998, losing only to the host.
 
Rinus Michels, for me.

He transformed the irrelevant Holland into a major force in the football world, inventor of total football, EC winner & WC finalist..
The genius behind famous Ajax system & to an extent Barca system, main source of tactical inspiration for Cruyff, Guardiola etc..
 
The thread is better if the question is what national team that is the best ever (as a sidenote at least)? Germany 2014? I only remember 1998 -> though.
 
Gusztáv Sebes - Magical Magyars manager brought in a lot of tactical adjustments and his team were unbeatable until that odd game against Germany where everything went against them in the WC.
Rinus Michels - another big tactical innovator and got to a WC final and won the Euros
Didier Deschamps - can't argue with the record of a World Cup win and another final and they are still going strong. Over the past 7-8 years you could say they've overall been the best team in the world.
Mario Zagallo - as mentioned, a great influence on successful Brazilian football teams and manager of one of the best teams of all-time.
Helmut Schon - World Cup, runners up, third place. Euros win and runner-up. Can't argue with that.
 
Otto Rehhagel deserves a mention here, winning the Euro's with an unfancied side like Greece is a huge achievement.
 
Zagallo, Beckenbauer and Michels would be the top 3 for me I think because of the global and continental success at national team level as managers.
 
Didier Deschamps. Took a mess of a national team/FA and coaxed 10 consistent years and three top competitions finals.
 
Who was the Spain manager when they won Euros, WC and Euros again?
 
Hansi Flick....just kidding

Not in a particular order, my list consists of 5 people.

1. Deschamps: He has proved his worth by bringing France into 2 WC finals(2018,2022), 1 Euro final, and 1 Nations League. France also performed superbly in a lot of qualification tournaments.

2. Michels: Legendary coach, he brought Holland to two finals in two different generations( Euro1988 and World Cup 1974). Also, in the part of that mighty total football team(1974) that revolutionized football.

3. Zagallo: Performed flawlessly in two very different decades(70s and 90s). Won both the Copa and World Cup. He also won as coordinator in 1994.

4.Helmut Schoen: Part of Germany golden eras in 1960s and 1970s. Won both WC and Euro. Under him, Germany reached three consecutive semi-finals in WC, which showed their consistency.

5. Del Bosque and Pozzo are two contenders for me. Del Bosque won both Euro and WC with Spain's Golden Generation in 2008 and 2010. Pozzo with 2 consecutive WC titles and 1 Olympic(1936).
 
Last edited:
Managers to win both a Euro/Copa America and a World Cup

You forgot Parreira
 
izec said:
Scaloni. 1 Copa, 1 WC, plus Finalissima all won in a period of 2 years. Genius
Click to expand...

I feel like his legacy would be greatly helped by managing and achieving success without Messi. None of the other candidates seem so overwhelmingly tied to one player.
 
Egil Drillo Olsen. Took Norway to 2nd ranking at one point. Surely triumphs over things like winning trophies
 
That French guy what won the world cup with Guivarch up front.

He should get it for that alone.
 
Taribo's Gap said:
None of the other candidates seem so overwhelmingly tied to one player.
Click to expand...

I think that could be in his favour too as he provided the platform for Messi to perform to the highest level which no other national team manager did in Messi's career (In fact they frequently did the opposite).

Argentinas recent achievements are greater than the sum of their parts IMO.
 
RacingClub said:
I think that could be in his favour too as he provided the platform for Messi to perform to the highest level which no other national team manager did in Messi's career (In fact they frequently did the opposite).

Argentinas recent achievements are greater than the sum of their parts IMO.
Click to expand...

I agree with you in terms of the job that Scaloni has done setting up the team, organizing them around Messi as the chief protagonist and instilling a hardworking, pragmatic and effective play style that has brought them great success in recent years. They are a team that is hard to beat now. I just don't know if history will grant him that same favor because so much of the story of this Argentina team is centered on achieving Messi's crowing jewel, rightly or wrongly.

It would be helpful if the team had a distinctive, aesthetically pleasing or innovative play style like some of the Brazilian or Dutch teams, but they are just a very functional, pragmatic and effective unit. Their style of play, which is something that can be attributed to a manager, is not what this team will be known for in the future. You already see rampant narratives about Messi carrying this team to glory, similar to Maradona in 1986. I couldn't even tell you who coached that 1986 team.

Hopefully Scaloni can find some other way to distinguish himself, because I do think he has done a really good job with this Argentina squad.

Along with a little bit of help from the referees ;)
 
The problem with Scaloni’s achievements is that we don’t actually know how good Alvarez, Enzo, Mac Allister, Romero and Molina are in the grand scheme of things. All we know is that:

1. They are playing well right now
2. They were all 22-24 years old when they won the World Cup

Now if these players go on to have great careers at club level, Scaloni’s accomplishment looks a bit less impressive because he clearly had a super strong team at his disposal. But if they don’t, then Scaloni’s World Cup looks like an incredible achievement.

As of December 2022, the only established world class players Argentina had were Messi and Di Maria, and both were clearly past their best anyway.

Guys like Lautaro, Otamendi, Paredes and De Paul were obviously good but a level below world class.
 
The General, Rinus Michels. Didn't actually win a world cup (he's Dutch overall), but his side was sensational and he took revenge by winning the euro's.

No idea if he's the best as I know feck all about other countries' managers.
 
Infordin said:
The problem with Scaloni’s achievements is that we don’t actually know how good Alvarez, Enzo, Mac Allister, Romero and Molina are in the grand scheme of things.
Click to expand...

To be fair, for one of his achievements (The Copa win) only one of those started the game (Romero) with one as an unused sub (Molina).

For him to transform the starting lineup of the team in such a short space of time (even during the actual world cup) was an achievement in itself IMO.

I'm not making a claim for him being the greatest coach by the way but he's been a fantastic facilitator for Messi and the rest of his squad.
 
Michels was voted greatest coach of all time by someone or something. Basically because of his innovation.
 
Aragones and Del Bosque surely deserve a mention?

Many think Spain 2008-2012 was the best national team ever and they had no GOAT level player unlike many other candidates
 
Would love to say Pep in 10 years time.
With the amount of talent we (England) have coming through to peak, it would be fantastic to get him as coach
 
Zehner said:
Aragones and Del Bosque surely deserve a mention?

Many think Spain 2008-2012 was the best national team ever and they had no GOAT level player unlike many other candidates
Click to expand...

Del Bosque has a few mentions above in this thread.

cpresc said:
Would love to say Pep in 10 years time.
With the amount of talent we (England) have coming through to peak, it would be fantastic to get him as coach
Click to expand...

Interesting. Are you a United fan? If so, would you still think this even if it meant Pep could be considered greater than SAF after achievements with the England NT?
 
Taribo's Gap said:
Del Bosque has a few mentions above in this thread.



Interesting. Are you a United fan? If so, would you still think this even if it meant Pep could be considered greater than SAF after achievements with the England NT?
Click to expand...

honestly, yes.

i want England to win the World Cup

SAF would be the first to congratulate someone who achieved more than him
 
Zehner said:
Aragones and Del Bosque surely deserve a mention?

Many think Spain 2008-2012 was the best national team ever and they had no GOAT level player unlike many other candidates
Click to expand...

Wouldn't iniesta and xavi be considered two of the greatest midfielders ever?
 
Where do people stand on the more specific Aragones vs Del Bosque?

Del Bosque was in charge longer, and won both the WC and Euros. But his football was also the most boring mechanical style I’ve ever seen. It was effective though.

Aragones built the style that took them forward, but it was a far more interesting and visually pleasing style to watch. While he only won the Euros, he deserves credit for the ensuing success also.

When it comes to “best” does style and influence come into it for you - or just cold hearted results?
 
Krny said:
Wouldn't iniesta and xavi be considered two of the greatest midfielders ever?
Click to expand...

I agree but do you see them as top 10-15 all time or something along those lines? Because most other national teams that are held in such high regards had one of those players. Puskas, Pelé, Garrincha, Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Platini, Maradona, R9, Zidane, Ronaldinho, Messi. I also think Michels' Netherlands aside no other national team is associated with a play style (tiki taka) as much as Spain under Aragones and Del Bosque.
 
Sebes and his Hungary Golden Team are surely up there, although they'd be considered overrated bottlers by today's standards.
 
You left out the British Italian tactical genius, the Burger King - Sam Allardyci.

Won multiple WCs(in his mind),
 
You must log in or register to reply here.