Great expectations, high hopes or a little bit of both?

fastwalker

Full Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Messages
415
Whoever you want to be the next United manager, the idea that at the beginning of next season we will have a new manager, is an exciting prospect. As fans, unreasonable optimism is our creed. Newness, whether it is a new player or manager is so often seen as a something to be positive about, even if our expectations turn out to be misplaced.

That brings me to the man expected to be announced as United's next manager, Erik ten Hag. A nearly 75% win rate at Ajax, which is higher than any one of his last four predecessors in the role, stretching back to 2009. A serial winner in the Eredivisie and force to be reckoned with in the Champions League. In addition, Hag has developed a slew of talent that have been cherry-picked for Europe's top leagues and biggest clubs. Not only that but he is a protégé of Pep and Rangnick and plays a brand of football considered to be enterprising and modern. There is not much not to like about ten Hag is there?

Let's set aside David Moyes for a second, but I recall feeling exactly the same sense of excitement about Louis Van Gaal. A highly decorated manager, well respected and equally well travelled. On paper, Van Gaal was the size of manager that was made for Manchester United. However, as we all know, it did not work out. Likewise, when Jose was appointed, even with his insecurities and acknowledging that his tenure would likely be a short one, the appointment of Mourinho was a bold statement. A super-sized manager, second only to Pep at the time, for a super-sized club. Jose would restore United's fortunes, after all, he had won league titles at previous clubs. Well, Jose did achieve some success, but ultimately he came and went, leaving unfulfilled expectations in his wake. Then there was Ole. The club legend, who was United through and through. Served under Sir Alex and backed to the hilt by the fans. At best, United stagnated under Ole at worst, we regressed back to the Moyes era.

There is absolutely nothing guaranteed in this game. Yes, I am hopeful, but I honestly cannot say that I am particularly expectant. There has been too much utter disappointment and abject failure. High hopes and moderate expectations? What do others think?
 
High hopes, low expectations without a significant overhaul of the squad. I expect top 4 to be another struggle next season.
 
I have little hope. We’ve been shite this season and the likelihood is that we’ll be shite next season, too.
 
I wouldn't call ten haag highly decorated. Ole came with unlikely titles from an easy league as well. He has done very well in Europe at times, that is a feather in his cap.

I think it is a risky appointment of a good but unproven manager. Many managers in the past have made the transition look very difficult. He has no help from above and inherits some serious squad issues, albeit with a top four squad. On the plus side, he will have more time than most managers in the role because of how invested the fans and media are in his narrative. Many fans consider him an elite manager, a sure thing. If he can use that credit next season to think longer term we will be better for that
 
Initially it might get worst before it gets better but I'm willing to be patient and I hope the fan base is too. The one thing I really hope is that a proper approach is taken to pushing the club forward with a clear identity and an attacking philosophy. After the last few years, I really think it's time to look forward and not back to former glories and 'United DNA' and all that kind of stuff

I guess my biggest fear is that the players won't buy it, the manager will be expected to perform miracles with what he's got and that United legends might not buy into the style.
 
Irwin99 said:
I guess my biggest fear is that the players won't buy it, the manager will be expected to perform miracles with what he's got and that United legends might not buy into the style.
Click to expand...
Sell the moany players, support the manager by higher ups and ignore United bellends. Finger crossed.
 
I think we have quality that a good manager can use.

The issue is our players are all suited to different styles and philosophies.

Thus I hope we sell those not suited to the style and bring in players that are really needed and fit the style.
 
Next season will be worse. We are an abomination.
 
If ETH is indeed the one, I just hope we start playing something, anything resembling decent football. Whether we start to press, circulate the ball faster or play more direct, I just want to see an idea of a game plan every game.
I really want to barely wait for the next Man Utd game, unlike now.
Result wise, it can't be worst than this.
 
I have high hopes and expectations, full stop. I think people underestimate the impact 3 or 4 really good signings could have on us combined with the manager being given total control over incomings and outgoings.

Ralph, I think has been severely hindered by his interim tag and also losing possibly our best attacker shortly after taking over. The new manager won't have the interim issue and the loss of greenwood can be mitigated over the summer hopefully.

In short, look at what has happened to Barcelona with a new manager and a few good signings.
 
Optimism is probably the most important part of being a fan, what's the point in following one specific team otherwise

The right coach will make all the difference

I have faith it will get better
 
Like others think we will initially be all over the place and maybe not get top 4 in the end next season. As long as we can see a style of play, patterns emerging on the pitch and a togetherness in the players in 12 months time, that's all we can hope for as a minimum.
 
fastwalker said:
Whoever you want to be the next United manager, the idea that at the beginning of next season we will have a new manager, is an exciting prospect. As fans, unreasonable optimism is our creed. Newness, whether it is a new player or manager is so often seen as a something to be positive about, even if our expectations turn out to be misplaced.

That brings me to the man expected to be announced as United's next manager, Erik ten Hag. A nearly 75% win rate at Ajax, which is higher than any one of his last four predecessors in the role, stretching back to 2009. A serial winner in the Eredivisie and force to be reckoned with in the Champions League. In addition, Hag has developed a slew of talent that have been cherry-picked for Europe's top leagues and biggest clubs. Not only that but he is a protégé of Pep and Rangnick and plays a brand of football considered to be enterprising and modern. There is not much not to like about ten Hag is there?

Let's set aside David Moyes for a second, but I recall feeling exactly the same sense of excitement about Louis Van Gaal. A highly decorated manager, well respected and equally well travelled. On paper, Van Gaal was the size of manager that was made for Manchester United. However, as we all know, it did not work out. Likewise, when Jose was appointed, even with his insecurities and acknowledging that his tenure would likely be a short one, the appointment of Mourinho was a bold statement. A super-sized manager, second only to Pep at the time, for a super-sized club. Jose would restore United's fortunes, after all, he had won league titles at previous clubs. Well, Jose did achieve some success, but ultimately he came and went, leaving unfulfilled expectations in his wake. Then there was Ole. The club legend, who was United through and through. Served under Sir Alex and backed to the hilt by the fans. At best, United stagnated under Ole at worst, we regressed back to the Moyes era.

There is absolutely nothing guaranteed in this game. Yes, I am hopeful, but I honestly cannot say that I am particularly expectant. There has been too much utter disappointment and abject failure. High hopes and moderate expectations? What do others think?
Click to expand...
The problems that come with Van Gaal should have been clear to everyone, given his more than patchy record over the 15 years that preceded the appointment which don't really scream "highly decorated", nor "well respected" (unless you consider the being called "the Hitler of Brazilian players" or publicly falling out with the Bayern board statements of respect).
The ones that come with Mourinho even more so given the bloody, gruesome trainwreck in which his Chelsea time ended just a few months before. If hiring him was a bold statement, it was one of bold recklessness or bold amnesia. In reality, his hiring was sheer, desperate big name panic after Pep and Klopp had been hired by your rivals.

Equating Ten Hag with hiring Mourinho or van Gaal makes no sense whatsoever unless you somehow feel apprehensive about the very concept of hiring a manager, which is nonsensical.
That's why I must say that I really, really don't understand why, just because your club made a couple of unfortunate, not to say glaringly wrong, managerial hiring decisions, now you have this existential doubt about hiring managers.
The opposite should be the case. You should be happy that you club finally hires a promising manager of the present tense. Joy and excitement are warranted.
Happy, supportive, maybe a little cautious in expectations but also quite excited for what the future can bring. That should be your mood.
 
Last edited:
Hansi Fick said:
The problems that come with Van Gaal should have been clear to everyone, given his more than patchy record over the 15 years that preceded the appointment which don't really scream "highly decorated", nor "well respected" (unless you consider the being called "the Hitler of Brazilian players" or publicly falling out with the Bayern board statements of respect).
The ones that come with Mourinho even more so given the bloody, gruesome trainwreck in which his Chelsea time ended just a few months before. If hiring him was a bold statement, it was one of bold recklessness or bold amnesia. In reality, his hiring was sheer, desperate big name panic after Pep and Klopp had been hired by your rivals.

Equating Ten Hag with hiring Mourinho or van Gaal makes no sense whatsoever unless you somehow feel apprehensive about the very concept of hiring a manager, which is nonsensical.
That's why I must say that I really, really don't understand why, just because your club made a couple of unfortunate, not to say glaringly wrong, managerial hiring decisions, now you have this existential doubt about hiring managers.
The opposite should be the case. You should be happy that you club finally hires a promising manager of the present tense. Joy and excitement are warranted.
Happy, supportive, maybe a little cautious in expectations but also quite excited for what the future can bring. That should be your mood.
Click to expand...

Louis Van Gaal not highly decorated? Really? Seven league titles in three countries, the Champions League and UEFA Cup amongst numerous other trophies. He was apparently respected enough to be appointed by Barcelona and Bayern Munich, prior to appointment at Manchester United. As for Mourinho, the fact is that whatever the motivation may have been for his appointment, and the risks associated with it, Jose was an undeniable, proven and serial winner.

Surely based on your cherry-picking of facts, Klopp would have been judged an abject failure prior to his appointment at Liverpool, having finished second in 2012-13 with Dortmund (a distant 25 points behind Bayern), then second again in 2013-14 (19 points behind Bayern) and finally seventh in 2014-15 (33 points off Bayern). Yet Klopp turned out to be an outstanding appointment for Liverpool and is now regarded as one of the best coaches in world football.

There is a direct correlation between credibility and confidence. United's track record in managerial recruitment post SAF, has failed to meet the lofty expectations of the club. Much as fans do indeed extend trust, often without reason, experience suggests that reasonable optimism should be mixed with understandable caution.
 
fastwalker said:
Louis Van Gaal not highly decorated? Really? Seven league titles in three countries, the Champions League and UEFA Cup amongst numerous other trophies. He was apparently respected enough to be appointed by Barcelona and Bayern Munich, prior to appointment at Manchester United. As for Mourinho, the fact is that whatever the motivation may have been for his appointment, and the risks associated with it, Jose was an undeniable, proven and serial winner.

Surely based on your cherry-picking of facts, Klopp would have been judged an abject failure prior to his appointment at Liverpool, having finished second in 2012-13 with Dortmund (a distant 25 points behind Bayern), then second again in 2013-14 (19 points behind Bayern) and finally seventh in 2014-15 (33 points off Bayern). Yet Klopp turned out to be an outstanding appointment for Liverpool and is now regarded as one of the best coaches in world football.

There is a direct correlation between credibility and confidence. United's track record in managerial recruitment post SAF, has failed to meet the lofty expectations of the club. Much as fans do indeed extend trust, often without reason, experience suggests that reasonable optimism should be mixed with understandable caution.
Click to expand...
Either deliberately missing, or misunderstanding my point. Of course both Van Gaal and more so Mourinho were highly decorated. The point is there was clear evidence, at the time of their hiring, that both were over the hill, had massive red flags around them, and hugely likely to not work out too well due to their issues.
Which is completely different now.
 
Great Expectations was ok, a little long for my liking, but that's Dickins for you, 3 pages to describe something that could have been done i ln a paragraph.

I didn't like high hopes, not really a big fan of panic at the disco.

A little bit of both, really depends on whether or you prefer Chris Janson or Frankie Ballard. I'd go for Frankie.
 
I am positive. Erik in and full control from him will be amazing.

I am always positive though.
 
fastwalker said:
Louis Van Gaal not highly decorated? Really? Seven league titles in three countries, the Champions League and UEFA Cup amongst numerous other trophies. He was apparently respected enough to be appointed by Barcelona and Bayern Munich, prior to appointment at Manchester United. As for Mourinho, the fact is that whatever the motivation may have been for his appointment, and the risks associated with it, Jose was an undeniable, proven and serial winner.

Surely based on your cherry-picking of facts, Klopp would have been judged an abject failure prior to his appointment at Liverpool, having finished second in 2012-13 with Dortmund (a distant 25 points behind Bayern), then second again in 2013-14 (19 points behind Bayern) and finally seventh in 2014-15 (33 points off Bayern). Yet Klopp turned out to be an outstanding appointment for Liverpool and is now regarded as one of the best coaches in world football.

There is a direct correlation between credibility and confidence. United's track record in managerial recruitment post SAF, has failed to meet the lofty expectations of the club. Much as fans do indeed extend trust, often without reason, experience suggests that reasonable optimism should be mixed with understandable caution.
Click to expand...

The funny stuff is ETH has never managed outside the dutch league yet, but some people compare him with successful managers, he hasn't done more than Leonardo Jardim (who won the french league with Monaco) and reached semifinals of UCL as well.

He has potential, but some people are overrating him way too much.
United hiring Mourinho and LVG was less risky, people say it was very risky now, but back then barely anybody complained...because they achieved a lot as managers, it just didn't work.

Let's see what ETH can achieve outside Eredivisie, he has high potential.
 
Last edited:
Feeling excited but also a bit worried. We have a fantastic chance to turn a corner by bringing in a great manager. But for him to succeed I think he'll need to overhaul the majority of the team. My worry is before he's had enough time to do that, certain players in the dressing room will down tools and end up getting him sacked. He's going to need the full backing and support of the board and fans to succeed here. If he gets that then I think the 9 years of false dawns will finally be over.
 
Hansi Fick said:
Either deliberately missing, or misunderstanding my point. Of course both Van Gaal and more so Mourinho were highly decorated. The point is there was clear evidence, at the time of their hiring, that both were over the hill, had massive red flags around them, and hugely likely to not work out too well due to their issues.
Which is completely different now.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but that does not make sense. You said that Jose was over the hill when we appointed him? Jose's last PL title with Chelsea was in 2014-15 (he also won the EFL Cup that season) and he did not join United Until the 2016-17 season (two seasons later). How was he over the hill? In fact when Jose Joined United he was 53 years old, just a year older than ETH will be if he is appointed as United manager. Again, applying your logic, Jurgen Klopp surely must also have been over the hill because he had won nothing for three years prior to joining Liverpool (except for the equivalent of the German Charity Shield in 2013-14). Not only that but in his last season in the Bundesliga, Klopp finished a distant 7th with Dortmund, 33 points off the top and behind such Bundesliga 'luminaries' as Schalke 04 and FC Ausburg!

If Jose was over the hill, when we appointed him, surely so must Klopp have been when Liverpool appointed him?
 
fastwalker said:
If Jose was over the hill, when we appointed him, surely so must Klopp have been when Liverpool appointed him?
Click to expand...
No, of course not. Absolutely not, no comparison. I find it bizarre that anyone would argue that.

But I realize that it's very hard to pinpoint it on objective facts. One fact might be that as opposed to Mourinho, Klopp had never actually been sacked anywhere nor fallen out with anyone, and had stayed in both of his jobs for 7 seasons.
But honestly if you don't realize that Mourinho was over the hill in 2016, or at least had massive red flags around him, I don't really know how to convince you, so let's agree to disagree.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.