Game intelligence

noodlehair

"It's like..."
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Or rather our players and their complete lack of it.

Is there another team in the league that does as many stupid things in the space of 90 minutes as we do?

Diogo Dalot for example. I mean I'm sure he has a functioning brain but it must live in his trainers or something because it doesnt join him on the football pitch. I've never known a player who not only makes the wrong decision so often, but even when there is only one decision to make, somehow invents another, stupid one, and does it so often it's actually a genuine shock when he doesn't.

Wasting loads of time when there was only a minute left trying to take a freekick in our own fecking half from the wrong place.

Bruno playing a stupid blind 1-2 in his own half and costing the team a goal, then losing the ball twice more after doing EXACTLY THE SAME F*CKING THING.

Conceding loads of needless corners the other night to probably the best team in the world at scoring from corners.

Constant high risk, low reward passes that almost never come off anyway.

Bruno firing every corner straight to the near post defender despite us evidently having better corner takers.

Martinez choosing to hope the ball goes wide instead of clearing it and then watching it bounce into the goal.

We're mind bogglingly dumb to watch.

Other teams eith the same element of control win that game today because they don't press the self sabotage button every 2 minutes.
 
Onana spending about 45 seconds of the last minute trying to buy about five yards on a deep free kick entirely encapsulated the situational football IQ we've seen from our whole team for years now.
 
Basically our players don’t have it.

Dalot is a good example. He’s bang average - technically functional and unsuited to a team with aspirations - but more improbably he’s always been a dolt. People see him use his physicality every now and then get excited. Apparently one fullback position was “sorted” because of him.

Mass exodus needed. These players are too dumb, technically average and mentally weak.
 
noodlehair said:
Or rather our players and their complete lack of it.

Is there another team in the league that does as many stupid things in the space of 90 minutes as we do?

Diogo Dalot for example. I mean I'm sure he has a functioning brain but it must live in his trainers or something because it doesnt join him on the football pitch. I've never known a player who not only makes the wrong decision so often, but even when there is only one decision to make, somehow invents another, stupid one, and does it so often it's actually a genuine shock when he doesn't.

Wasting loads of time when there was only a minute left trying to take a freekick in our own fecking half from the wrong place.

Bruno playing a stupid blind 1-2 in his own half and costing the team a goal, then losing the ball twice more after doing EXACTLY THE SAME F*CKING THING.

Conceding loads of needless corners to probably the best team in the world at scoring from corners.

Constant high risk, low reward passes that almost never come off anyway.

Bruno firing every corner straight to the near post defender despite us evidently having better corner takers.

Martinez choosing to hope the ball goes wide instead of clearing it and then watching it bounce into the goal.

We're mind bogglingly dumb to watch.

Other teams eith the same element of control win that game today because they don't press the self sabotage button every 2 minutes.
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I don't know how long I've been saying this... Literally every week he will do several things where you'll just think... What the feck are you doing.

And maybe the dumbest thing he does on a regular basis is that thing where he takes a throw him, tells one of our players to move further back from where he's stood, so that he can throw the ball to the opposition player who is now stood in that spot.
 
Of all the things I cannot get over the Dalot header, the Onana free-kick nonsense & the Bruno pass which lead to their second.

How fecking stupid are these morons?
 
Dalot trying to score with a header from the edge of the box too. The first corner he gave away, I am sure he could have kicked that out for a throw-in.
 
Its hard to believe they are as thick as they appear. I sometimes wonder if it's ego causing certain players to be selfish and make decisions that come across as stupid
 
V.O. said:
Onana spending about 45 seconds of the last minute trying to buy about five yards on a deep free kick entirely encapsulated the situational football IQ we've seen from our whole team for years now.
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Which hit Maguire's head and harmlessly out for a goal kick
 
De Ligt looking poor too. Cannot pass the ball great under pressure or head it. Yoro trys to pass to someone under pressure whereas de ligt just belts or heads it as far as he can.
 
Add to the list there are as brittle as biscuits and half of them can't run for more than an hour.

But don't worry United is Clean Slate FC it was all the managers fault remember.
 
Our players constantly make mistakes even relegation battlers at Southampton would be ashamed of. As Rangnick said years ago, " we are the only team in the league that concedes this type of goal". Years go by, squad changes, manager changes but the sprit remains. There's no hope for this team, Amorim must've been asking himself what on earth he was watching.
 
RuudTom83 said:
Add to the list there are as brittle as biscuits and half of them can't run for more than an hour.

But don't worry United is Clean Slate FC it was all the managers fault remember.
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He bought the majority of players that started the game or came off the bench.... remember!
 
Can't even install A.I. brain implants into this lot. It'll just rattle in their skulls.
 
I don't entirely disagree with this thread. We should have more good with occasional superb performance players who can read the game well. The type who could do well as a manager in the future. People like Carrick, Blind, or hey Amorim himself. City has players like Ake who have fulfilled that role. Eriksen could have been that but we clearly should have snatched him up before he went to Spurs.
 
Has to be a case of mental pressure, structural rot at the club.

Despite the urge to unduly blame our players one has to remember that many spent their formative years at the top academies in europe, some have proven to be able to play on high level beforehand and some are still stand out performers for their national teams, im sure it'll get better.
 
Game intelligence is certainly something a lot of our players are missing, I think it's also the reason why we so often look disjointed on the pitch and players so seldom move into good positions receive a pass. It also shows in our pressing, while other teams can do it collectively we always seem to do it on a player by player basis.

But it's not just game intelligence its also work ethic a lot of our players are missing as well. I don't think there is any team in the league that harbors so many slow players or so many players who can't be bothered to work off the ball for 90 minutes.

And a lot of it imo is down to our recruitment.
 
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This is our biggest issue, not only have we got some of the dumbest players around they also think they are a lot better than they actually are.

Infuriating doesn’t even come close.
 
The issue is the wingbacks are our most important players for our system. Yet, we have a low IQ player on the left and another player who should not be on the right, as his best attributes is higher up. We need Mazouari as RWB quickly. Dalot needs to be replaced. Use the 16 year old.
 
Every successful team has managers on the pitch controlling things; the Captain and other senior players.

Our Captain is all over the place emotionally and how he plays. Brilliant one minute awful the next. He is chaotic and so are we.

Our senior players like Rashford set an example to no-one.

Players like Martinez show promise but he's not been the same since his injury.
 
Diallo makes the rest of the squad look like absolute children
 
TempusFugit said:
Our players constantly make mistakes even relegation battlers at Southampton would be ashamed of. As Rangnick said years ago, " we are the only team in the league that concedes this type of goal". Years go by, squad changes, manager changes but the sprit remains. There's no hope for this team, Amorim must've been asking himself what on earth he was watching.
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I don't remember Rangnick saying that but it makes sense as I must say it to myself most weeks.

No other team would go away to Arsenal and concede nearly 15 corners, especially if they were as bad at defending them as we are.

Then today right at the start, as someone else just pointed out, we conceded about 8 chances from corners the last game, so Dalot starts this one by needlessly playing the ball out for a corner.

The second goal is just unprofessional from Bruno trying to show off in his own half. Same as Rashford in the week. Most teams don't concede these two goals, and then probsbly don't lose the game or at the very least make the other team actually do something to win it
 
Might be controversial but if we are to pick a team based on 'intelligence' or technical side of game, with current squad i think it's

Onana

Yoro
De Ligt
Martinez

Mazraoui
Casemiro
Mainoo
Antony

Diallo
Mount
Zirkzee

Im not saying that's our best team, but its the one of players who i think have the best instincts and less prone to madness. But then we see Martinez do what he did today.

Its removing Dalot, Garnacho, Bruno, Ugarte, Hojlund and even a sniff of Rashford

Again i don't think it's our best team but am not surprised that the players mentioned as left out are probably the ones that cause the most division and frustration among fans. Ive left out eriksen as I can't even pretend to put him and casemiro in a line up together
 
Said it for years. We’re so lacking in basic game IQ. Sometimes it’s stuff so basic you question the club and everyone who works there. It feels like most of this shit only happens to us.

Remember a few years back against Istanbul when we forgot to leave players back when we got a corner? And they just headed it away and Demba Ba was through on goal? Yeah, shit like that.
 
V.O. said:
Onana spending about 45 seconds of the last minute trying to buy about five yards on a deep free kick entirely encapsulated the situational football IQ we've seen from our whole team for years now.
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Yes that was ridiculous in the extreme.
 
SER19 said:
Might be controversial but if we are to pick a team based on 'intelligence' or technical side of game, with current squad i think it's

Onana

Yoro
De Ligt
Martinez

Mazraoui
Casemiro
Mainoo
Antony

Diallo
Mount
Zirkzee

Im not saying that's our best team, but its the one of players who i think have the best instincts and less prone to madness. But then we see Martinez do what he did today.

Its removing Dalot, Garnacho, Bruno, Ugarte, Hojlund and even a sniff of Rashford

Again i don't think it's our best team but am not surprised that the players mentioned as left out are probably the ones that cause the most division and frustration among fans. Ive left out eriksen as I can't even pretend to put him and casemiro in a line up together
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This list is spot on. It might not be our best technical XI. But all of them seem to have the most tactical knowledge of how to properly play in a structured system. They will also ensure better ball retention.
 
It's incredible just how we have managed to sign so many players who have an absolute lack of intelligence all across the playing field. I have been in no doubts about this squad and the challenge Amorim faces. It will take at least 5 years before we are capable of sustaining any sort of challenge. The first 2/3 is removing players who don't suit his style of play and don't have the intelligence to run with it and another 2 to embed a philosophy that works IMO.

I believe we possess players with talent but they have become very individualistic to the point that they focus solely on their performance and not that of the team. The mistakes we are seeing are probably through overplaying and overthinking to impress the new coach which often leads to indecision due to the fact it is a team game and we aren't good at working as unit. Amorim has already brought in ideas I think could work but it will be along time before we have the players that fit the mould to play intellectual football and make it work. And that's assuming Amorim is given time and seen as the correct man for the job.
 
V.O. said:
Onana spending about 45 seconds of the last minute trying to buy about five yards on a deep free kick entirely encapsulated the situational football IQ we've seen from our whole team for years now.
Click to expand...
Even the ref was in disbelief like wtf are you doing man...
 
I know it not what you intended with your thread, but after seeing Spurs gifting two penalties to Chelsea and Timo Werner being their plan B in attack I would like to believe we could do even worse.

Regarding the Forest game, I agree that it was a tough watch.
Dalot and Mainoo were excellent last season and really poor yesterday. They need time to adapt. Martinez and Mount will be important but do not seem fit at all yet. Maz did not play much and Onana who was our other best player this season blundered (and struggled obviously with the stormy conditions.)

But at same time, I am all in for Amorim to change or tactical game. It will take time, let's be patient. I was pro ETH all along, but I think we re-shuffling into a better future.

Hope we can find a proper wingback in january though, do not want to imagine if we loose Amad in the current state of things.
 
DownRiver said:
The issue is the wingbacks are our most important players for our system. Yet, we have a low IQ player on the left and another player who should not be on the right, as his best attributes is higher up. We need Mazouari as RWB quickly. Dalot needs to be replaced. Use the 16 year old.
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Out left wingback situation is pretty alarming to be fair, Dalot is ruining his career game by game out there.

Malacia to his credit has done ok, but he's played 90 minutes of football in about 2 years.

Outrageously low quality there.

The right wing back has actually been a positive for me. Diallo has been superb. One of the very few bright sparks of the season.
 
Yeah we have a squad filled with players who consistently make the wrong decisions - Garnacho, Dalot, Casemiro, Rashford (although I'd say he's been a bit better this season), Bruno, Martinez, Onana (perhaps not consistently, but that time-wasting at the end was unforgiveable).

That's far too many regular starters making the kind of dumbass decisions that would've placed them under perma-hairdryer watch during the Fergie days.
 
Some of our players lack football IQ, but most of this team lacks in confidence. They doubt themselves and their teammates and this translates into bad choices, missed passes, poor first touch, because they’re basically second guessing everything they do, their teammates do and the coach’s instructions

Take a look at City. Are their players suddenly all shite or is it that they start doubting themselves after a sequence of losing games?
 
Zed is not dead said:
Some of our players lack football IQ, but most of this team lacks in confidence. They doubt themselves and their teammates and this translates into bad choices, missed passes, poor first touch, because they’re basically second guessing everything they do, their teammates do and the coach’s instructions

Take a look at City. Are their players suddenly all shite or is it that they start doubting themselves after a sequence of losing games?
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Eh don't really agree re: City.

They've declined off of the back of some poor recent recruitment and natural decline of players. Silva/Gundogan/KDB/Walker don't have the legs they did 3/4 years ago. They are also obviously missing Rodri and don't have a replacement for him. Grealish/Savinho/Doku just isn't a productive set of wingers at all for this system. Foden has been horrid since the Euro's debacle (and I'm not really sure what his best position is). Combine this with the recent years of Pep clearly getting more pragmatic with his approach (becoming obsessed with physical profiles throughout the team and being more and more solid at the back and in midfield instead of looking to be more expansive/creative) and tending to rely on a few key players for the source of magic in the team and it's sort of all hit them at once. I mean comparing the most recent City teams to something more classic Pep like the centurions team and it's night and day the amount of individual attacking quality those teams had compared to what they have now.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Eh don't really agree re: City.

They've declined off of the back of some poor recent recruitment and natural decline of players. Silva/Gundogan/KDB/Walker don't have the legs they did 3/4 years ago. They are also obviously missing Rodri and don't have a replacement for him. Grealish/Savinho/Doku just isn't a productive set of wingers at all for this system. Foden has been horrid since the Euro's debacle (and I'm not really sure what his best position is). Combine this with the recent years of Pep clearly getting more pragmatic with his approach (becoming obsessed with physical profiles throughout the team and being more and more solid at the back and in midfield instead of looking to be more expansive/creative) and tending to rely on a few key players for the source of magic in the team and it's sort of all hit them at once. I mean comparing the most recent City teams to something more classic Pep like the centurions team and it's night and day the amount of individual attacking quality those teams had compared to what they have now.
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I agree with what you said. But you can’t tell me that the title holders are now at a level where they lose 6 games in a row.

What you call « source of magic » I call confidence
 
It's more confidence than anything else. Playing for United sucks for a player when things aren't going well, that is why recruiting for United is so difficult because you need the personality who can take it and won't wilt under the pressure. I do think there are more of these characters now than before, ETH seemed to prioritise much more combative players but it came at the result of quality.

The younger players tend to make stupid decisions more - Dalot's decisions are crazy some games, Garnacho is the most blinkered player since Ronaldo was here, Hojlund definitely should shoot more, Mainoo's form is hot/cold though he has been injured. It's more understandable and acceptable for younger guys as long as the senior players keep them in check i.e. Case bollocking Garnacho the other game. But the bigger issue is the example set by our biggest players when under pressure is tragic. Rashford properly just shuts down, he loses confidence to take people on and disappears in games these days. Case flies into tackles, often getting skinned and also has started just hoofing long balls. Bruno gets more and more wound up and erratic if we are behind, wanting every pass, spamming desperate long balls or shots - where are the consistent, 7/10 players these days? Genuinely who is there, it is basically just Mazraoui and the sample size of him is tiny.
 
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