FFP has crashed transfer fees

RedIan

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As teams like Everton get docked point for breach of FFP and City awaiting trial for alleged breaches. All premier league clubs are now taking this very seriously.

It strikes me transfer fees have crashed, we paid ridiculous fees for Pogba, Sancho, Maguire and Anthony, all £70-£80mil.

Now it seems Ugarte is a done deal for £42mil plus add ons. 2 years ago he would have been £80m. The fees we paid for Delit, Zirkzee and Yolo were all sub 40mil. We also seem unable to command any decent fees in for players we sell and have almost given away some very talented young players.

Is it the clubs new policy to spend less or is it the bubble bursting with FFP pricking it.
 
We are being run by professionals now. It's not a coincidence.
 
I think high fees crashed high fees.

Ugarte, PSG wanted rid and we've paid the same as they did a year ago when he was on the up, there's no way in the world he'll ever be a £80m player.

Zirkzee, release clause, agents and players are getting smarter now with "smaller" clubs demanding a Kings ransom for their players while paying them pennies in comparison.

De Ligt, Bayern had a have a lot of CBs and wanted rid, De Ligt hasn't really impressed since his Ajax days.

These are smart buys from us, but nothing revolutionary.
 
Think release clause have to be a regular thing now. A player who’s signing at age 22-24 for a mid-table premier league club must have aspirations to play for one of the big boys later on. If he does well, his performances will put a massive price tag making it impossible for anyone to try and get them. Then, you either become like a Grealish (overpriced at a 100 million) or like a Zaha who was always considered to rich for the fee Palace asked and ultimately neither got the move nor did Palace get a reasonable fee for him.
 
For all the negative implications all of these financial rules/restrictions, I do think this is a huge positive. Clubs are being more careful which should result in less chance of teams having severe consequences or going the way of Bury for example. There are probably too many negatives for the clubs to think this is the right way long-term, which is why things are changing, but I do hope the rules do ensure this kind of sustainability they intended to achieve.
 
I agree with the OP. The new rules have made clubs actually work together, it almost seems like many deals are being done now in a sneaky way to get around the rules.

Clubs almost doing each other favours if both clubs objectives are met. The Chelsea deal for Gallagher/The Spanish striker/Felix was shoddy as hell.

But it seems to have cut through some of the bullshit in terms of posturing/speculation/dragged out negotiations.

Clubs are now other than Chelsea only signing players if they need them, and are selling players surplus to requirements so not hoarding players in bloated squads.
 
RedIan said:
As teams like Everton get docked point for breach of FFP and City awaiting trial for alleged breaches. All premier league clubs are now taking this very seriously.

It strikes me transfer fees have crashed, we paid ridiculous fees for Pogba, Sancho, Maguire and Anthony, all £70-£80mil.

Now it seems Ugarte is a done deal for £42mil plus add ons. 2 years ago he would have been £80m. The fees we paid for Delit, Zirkzee and Yolo were all sub 40mil. We also seem unable to command any decent fees in for players we sell and have almost given away some very talented young players.

Is it the clubs new policy to spend less or is it the bubble bursting with FFP pricking it.
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About time! Should've happened much earlier. It was getting ridiculous.
 
On the other hand, Chelsea and Brighton have spent over £200m each on transfers, with about £70m of that going on a pair of Championship players. Ipswich have come straight up and spent about £100m net, Villa, Spurs, and West Ham have also flashed the cash, and there's a whole thread dedicated to Nketiah and Van den Berg accumulating £50m+ in fees between them.

There are mitigating factors behind a good few of those to be sure, but with PSR widely expected to be changed up from next season on, I don't see spending or even individual transfer fees going down all that much in the future.

As an aside, I think there were plenty of opportunities for us to waste money this summer but we seem to have avoided them.
 
Imo it was going to happen, the extortionate transfer fees clubs have been paying needed to stop..
150 million plus for this one that one.. etc etc.. the felix transfer fee from Benfica, bloody hell that worked out!!
The fees utd have paid this season are normal fees mainly because who now in charge of them.. De light and Mazz for around £60 million .. great deal Everton wanted £75 plus for Braithwaite.. few years back I think they would have paid that? ..
 
I do hope FFP also puts players salary into a more reasonable context. Whilst a players career averages 15 years, maybe half of that at a top club. Salaries of £300k a year are completely ridiculous .
Sterling is no longer in Chelseas plans, however his wages of £300k a week (£15million a year !) are a stumbling block to him moving clubs as they can’t afford his wages. . No wonder clubs are breaching FFP paying billions in wages.
You can be a rich man on £100k a month, £300k a week is just maximum greed.

We heard Maguire want £10 mil from United for Transfering, other players like AWB wanted a pay off. Ive never heard of this type of demand before. Just greed. Making very very rich men even richer so they can buy another super car or go gambling more.
 
Not really fussed about the reasons. It's nice to see them trending towards more normal levels.
 
RedIan said:
I do hope FFP also puts players salary into a more reasonable context. Whilst a players career averages 15 years, maybe half of that at a top club. Salaries of £300k a year are completely ridiculous .
Sterling is no longer in Chelseas plans, however his wages of £300k a week (£15million a year !) are a stumbling block to him moving clubs as they can’t afford his wages. . No wonder clubs are breaching FFP paying billions in wages.
You can be a rich man on £100k a month, £300k a week is just maximum greed.

We heard Maguire want £10 mil from United for Transfering, other players like AWB wanted a pay off. Ive never heard of this type of demand before. Just greed. Making very very rich men even richer so they can buy another super car or go gambling more.
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Arsenal paid a load of players off to leave under Arteta and Edu in the first couple of years.


Utd players weren't really demanding pay offs, it would be something in their contract, loyalty bonus or something for honouring their side of the deal. If Utd want to force them out, they have to pay up. If the player looked for a transfer, they wouldn't get a pay off.
 
RedIan said:
We've heard Maguire want £10 mil from United for Transfering, other players like AWB wanted a pay off. Ive never heard of this type of demand before. Just greed. Making very very rich men even richer so they can buy another super car or go gambling more.
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These payoffs are perfectly normal whenever a club wants to sell a player that really doesn't want to leave to a club that can't afford to give them the same wage.

If a player desperately wants the move, then they wouldn't be too bothered about a payoff. But in this case these players probably wanted to stay, so the club had to give them a payoff. They're on contracts with money owed to them, so if they wanted to they could flat out refuse to move and just run out their contracts otherwise. So of course they will demand a payoff when the club is trying to push them out the door and sign for a new club on less wages.

It's our own fault for putting almost all of our players on inflated wages they really wouldn't deserve to get anywhere else. If our players earned what they actually deserve to earn, the market for them would be a lot bigger, and they'd also be worth more in the market.
Even players like Antony would be an easy sell to so many European clubs if he was on 50k a week, instead of 250k.
 
Probably, but I still have reservations about a set of rules that encourages clubs to actively move on homegrown players that they would happily otherwise develop further.
 
The downside could be the Middle East putting high bids in and players 26/27 upwards leaving the EUFA leagues as teams selling would want the extra money and players talked into going there for sky high wages
 
yumtum said:
I think high fees crashed high fees.

Ugarte, PSG wanted rid and we've paid the same as they did a year ago when he was on the up, there's no way in the world he'll ever be a £80m player.

Zirkzee, release clause, agents and players are getting smarter now with "smaller" clubs demanding a Kings ransom for their players while paying them pennies in comparison.

De Ligt, Bayern had a have a lot of CBs and wanted rid, De Ligt hasn't really impressed since his Ajax days.

These are smart buys from us, but nothing revolutionary.
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Basically this. Just because we didnt get bent over this season, doesn't mean prices have dropped across the board.

Madrid bid 200m for Mbappe 12 months ago. Chelsea are still spending outrageous amounts. Álvarez just signed for Atlético for 75m.

We've spent sensibly this season, but I wouldn't rule out us spending 80m plus on one player in the next year or 2
 
Kag said:
Probably, but I still have reservations about a set of rules that encourages clubs to actively move on homegrown players that they would happily otherwise develop further.
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It’s definitely a double edged sword. Bringing prices down is a must for the long term survival of football. But it’s sad to see academy graduates being sold and referred to in the papers as pure profit.

That being said it should also be an incentive for clubs to invest in their youth set ups to bring more talent through for low cost. Not to sell but to actually have a pipeline of talent for their own first team. It’s something United have done well.
 
I think it’s still about normal, we’re just not as mental as we used to be.
 
RedIan said:
I do hope FFP also puts players salary into a more reasonable context. Whilst a players career averages 15 years, maybe half of that at a top club. Salaries of £300k a year are completely ridiculous .
Sterling is no longer in Chelseas plans, however his wages of £300k a week (£15million a year !) are a stumbling block to him moving clubs as they can’t afford his wages. . No wonder clubs are breaching FFP paying billions in wages.
You can be a rich man on £100k a month, £300k a week is just maximum greed.

We heard Maguire want £10 mil from United for Transfering, other players like AWB wanted a pay off. Ive never heard of this type of demand before. Just greed. Making very very rich men even richer so they can buy another super car or go gambling more.
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Payouts for selling before contract end are standard. You just haven’t heard of them before
 
I don't know it's not just a odd year in a market that is by nature volatile but it's probably a good thing to have the inflation paused. If it's thanks to regulation, all the better.
 
You also have a flurry of average players going for fees between £20m and £40m which is the true sign of inflation in my opinion
 
RedIan said:
As teams like Everton get docked point for breach of FFP and City awaiting trial for alleged breaches. All premier league clubs are now taking this very seriously.
Click to expand...

Funny that, once they actually start enforcing the rules teams start abiding by them.
 
RedIan said:
As teams like Everton get docked point for breach of FFP and City awaiting trial for alleged breaches. All premier league clubs are now taking this very seriously.

It strikes me transfer fees have crashed, we paid ridiculous fees for Pogba, Sancho, Maguire and Anthony, all £70-£80mil.

Now it seems Ugarte is a done deal for £42mil plus add ons. 2 years ago he would have been £80m. The fees we paid for Delit, Zirkzee and Yolo were all sub 40mil. We also seem unable to command any decent fees in for players we sell and have almost given away some very talented young players.

Is it the clubs new policy to spend less or is it the bubble bursting with FFP pricking it.
Click to expand...
True but then you see Arsenal selling Nketiah for 30 million...
 
I think FFP is part of it but I think the main reason is clubs saw that paying a huge amount of money for players there was simply no value in it. I think the bubble has burst a little because at some point in time transfers and wages had to become more sustainable. In the sense it might go up that much higher at the rate that it was and more sensible and reasonable contracts will be given out as time goes on. Unless you're Chelsea!

I'm convinced the likes of Messi and Ronaldo's wage helped football wages explode into out of reality. If they are getting 400k a week, and the second best player at their clubs are getting 100k, that seems unfair. They'd be like, I'm worth at least 250k a week because they need players like me to help them score! Then other players with similar abilities all of a sudden demand a higher wage because the market is paying other players a high amount.

With United in particular - someone said it lovely earlier in the tread - we aren't run by morons anymore. Sensible players were bought and there should be plenty of value for money with them. Time will tell but I think the 5 players we bought with a net spend of just 100m is a lot better than not being able to shift players and spending 150m on two complete overpriced players. Being run like a proper football club helps this :smirk:
 
is very important to discuss about FFP - whether it is killing or protecing Football
 
Barca is still allowed to operate whilst owing employees wages so it’s complete and utter bullshit
 
maybe Chelsea just took on our mantle....

it was like Woodward on speed really

88m Mudryk, 75m Fofana, 60m Cucu, 120m Fernandez.....Caciedo, etc

Think the market has shrunk a little but INEOS have clearly run us well this Summer
 
buckooo1978 said:
maybe Chelsea just took on our mantle....

it was like Woodward on speed really

88m Mudryk, 75m Fofana, 60m Cucu, 120m Fernandez.....Caciedo, etc

Think the market has shrunk a little but INEOS have clearly run us well this Summer
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One of the bigger issues of the last few years has been the "bigger" clubs have started spending more on younger players at a younger age to avoid missing out on them further down the line.

5 years ago, Fernandez may have gone from Benfica to Dortmund for half that fee before eventually moving to Chelsea/United/city/Madrid/Barca etc a couple of years later. Now, the likes of Benfica are fully aware of this change so can put massive fee/release clause on that player, outpricing the team that were the traditional "next step" on the career trajectory of young talent. You can imagine the likes of Ajax have had to change their plans aswell as their method of "buy low, sell high" has been impacted.

The downside for the likes of United and Chelsea is that these players are never a guaranteed success and each development pathway is very different. Ultimately meaning, there's going a lot of wasted transfer fees on younger players who never quite live up to their potential.

There's every chance Bellingham would currently be on the way to Everton on loan had he signed for us rather than Dortmund in 2019.
 
RedIan said:
I do hope FFP also puts players salary into a more reasonable context. Whilst a players career averages 15 years, maybe half of that at a top club. Salaries of £300k a year are completely ridiculous .
Sterling is no longer in Chelseas plans, however his wages of £300k a week (£15million a year !) are a stumbling block to him moving clubs as they can’t afford his wages. . No wonder clubs are breaching FFP paying billions in wages.
You can be a rich man on £100k a month, £300k a week is just maximum greed.

We heard Maguire want £10 mil from United for Transfering, other players like AWB wanted a pay off. Ive never heard of this type of demand before. Just greed. Making very very rich men even richer so they can buy another super car or go gambling more.
Click to expand...
AWB didn't want a payoff from United. He wanted an enhanced signing on fee from WHUFC as they saved a bit on his transfer fee, and he could have waited 12 months to be a free agent and then demanded a £10m+ signing on fee as it's effectively a cheap transfer.

It was never about United paying off AWB.
 
Garnacho Libre said:
I think FFP is part of it but I think the main reason is clubs saw that paying a huge amount of money for players there was simply no value in it. I think the bubble has burst a little because at some point in time transfers and wages had to become more sustainable. In the sense it might go up that much higher at the rate that it was and more sensible and reasonable contracts will be given out as time goes on. Unless you're Chelsea!

I'm convinced the likes of Messi and Ronaldo's wage helped football wages explode into out of reality. If they are getting 400k a week, and the second best player at their clubs are getting 100k, that seems unfair. They'd be like, I'm worth at least 250k a week because they need players like me to help them score! Then other players with similar abilities all of a sudden demand a higher wage because the market is paying other players a high amount.

With United in particular - someone said it lovely earlier in the tread - we aren't run by morons anymore. Sensible players were bought and there should be plenty of value for money with them. Time will tell but I think the 5 players we bought with a net spend of just 100m is a lot better than not being able to shift players and spending 150m on two complete overpriced players. Being run like a proper football club helps this :smirk:
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I agree. I also think if it was Murtough still here we would have spent £70 mill on Braithwaite and Amrabat for £20 mill and maybe another £20 mill on another player and that would have been it.
 
I don’t think it’s crashed anything yet, they’re just not rising currently.
 
I think it was always going to come crashing down. FFP/PSR has only somewhat accelerated the shrinking.

If I'm not mistaken, broadcasting deals have somewhat stagnated/plateaued for many leagues.
 
It does seem to have reached a peak a year or two ago, and now clubs are more reasonable. With FFP/PSR there had to be consequences specially for the big clubs.
 
There's another potential set of explications and that's basically we are in an outlier low year. 20/21 was quieter than the summers before and after (top transfer at "only" 80m€).

- Saudi League 4-5 big clubs not being as spastic as last year (I guess that public money push is not a yearly payment).
- City under investigation.
- Chelsea already in potential FFP trouble after 3-4 seasons of contributing to driving the ceiling up.
- Real Madrid big signing being a free agent.
- United under new management that is clearly trying to avoid their white elephant moment from the get go.
- Bayern trimming their finances.

If Saudi clubs stay subdued while Chelsea and City are quieter on the market next summer, it might prevent the prices flaring up early for everyone and 100m fees being exchanged like tactical nukes.
 
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