FAO Tottenham Hotspur | Fighting Cock Goes Into Meltdown | Glast...gone

SilentWitness said:
Unfortunately Sheffield United are really really bad.
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If any side has it in them to lose to Sheffield United, it's Spurs (or United).

africanspur said:
I'm just not sure how their results against Olympiakos really matter in the context of the league? They've lost just once in the last 5 games in the league. They've gotten 4 results in the last 5 league games that would have guaranteed them CL regardless of what we did. Or 7 in the last 10. Our run in has been even more shit. Hence why we've fallen further and further behind.

You're likely misrepresenting because you cant believe someone would actually be sincere in a discussion on the internet. I genuinely and truly believe Villa deserve the CL spot. They have been better than us over the season, especially taking into account their deep European run. Obviously I would have preferred us to be in their position instead but if we can't be, Villa are up there in terms of clubs I don't mind doing so. Not everything needs an ulterior motive.

How am I deflecting? I am answering specific points people have made about the celebrations or what Spurs fans have said with points about how other fans have reacted in the circumstances?

When I've been talking about the actual performance or the actual season performances, both yesterday and today, Ive said multiple times that our performances from November onwards have been mostly poor, as have the results and that Ange will be under pressure if he continues in the same way next season? Its also not being said that those buffoons are small time, its being used as part of the normal gamut of 'banterous' points about how small time the club and its fans are, when the fans of Man Utd have been cheering on their supposed City rivals almost nonstop over the past 4 years?

All of the following can be true:

-During the game I wanted us to win but I ultimately knew I would not be unhappy with either outcome
-Lots of fans, in similar situations, would likely feel the same. Especially when that sworn rival hasn't won a big trophy for 2 decades, when they still remind you of the time they won it at your stadium 2 decades ago
-The players and manager played as normal, actually played a reasonable game but were beaten by the better team
-Ange and the team have, whisper this, actually been quite shit since November/ December. Like really shit. Losing 4 in a row. Some awful performances. Winning one away game in 2024. Conceding shitloads despite having good defenders. That isn't a fans issue.
-Any fan who boos or does anything other than support the team while physically in the stadium, is a tool.
-Some idiotic fans does not make an entire fanbase or club smalltime, unless Man Utd and Arsenal have also become smalltime.
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You're focusing too much on me literally just picking their most recent games, or indeed, the number of losses. The point I made was that I'd seen it said that a "miracle" was needed for Spurs to qualify for the CL even if they'd beaten City. That "miracle" would have consisted of Spurs beating "record goals conceded" Sheffield United and Villa, who haven't been in great form, losing to a very in-form Crystal Palace away from home. That's not exactly a mad scenario. Spurs' form should have been almost irrelevant in the context of Sheffield United being unbelievably shit.

I also think Villa have been worth the spot, but that's not really the point. The point is that Spurs could have been in with a fairly realistic chance of taking it, but it's being brushed off as "ah well, Villa have been good".

It's coming across as deflecting because you're being clearly very defensive about people saying Spurs/Spurs fans have been a bit small-time. It's not really sat well with me (or many other United fans) that City have been cheered on in recent seasons, and with that in mind, I very much understand the "silver-lining" aspect of losing last night. However, that is not what's being laughed at as "small-time". It's the active, in-stadium celebration of goals being scored against your team, when conceding those goals meant the end of your CL qualification hopes. I respect that this doesn't apply to you, and that some of the posts have very much been "banterous" but your continued response has very much come across as defensive, and when you're bringing up United fans wanting City to win over Liverpool (or Arsenal fans allegedly saying they'd be happy losing one final if it meant Spurs losing a different one), it also comes across as deflecting.

Reckon we should end it here because it's just going round in circles. I get what you're saying, I just don't agree, and you don't agree with me either. It's not an objective thing.
 
Alex99 said:
Saw a Spurs fan elsewhere saying they'd "need a miracle to qualify for the CL" even if they'd beaten City, as if a win wouldn't have put them within two points of Villa, with their last game being against Sheffield United, while Villa, winless in their last five matches, are away to an in form Crystal Palace.
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Villa would only need a draw. Being winless changes nothing. They've only lost once to a team from the bottom half this entire season (Nottingham a while ago).

Of course, they've recently lost games to Lille and Olympiacos, but that's a different context. At least Lille is a team of Premier League top-half level, while Olympiacos as a club has more recent European experience than Villa.


To be fair to Villa they will finish the season with 68,69, or 71 points and over the last 5/6 years, you tend to make CL with this many points.
 
Pintu said:
Villa would only need a draw. Being winless changes nothing. They've only lost once to a team from the bottom half this entire season (Nottingham a while ago).

Of course, they've recently lost games to Lille and Olympiacos, but that's a different context. At least Lille is a team of Premier League top-half level, while Olympiacos as a club has more recent European experience than Villa.


To be fair to Villa they will finish the season with 68,69, or 71 points and over the last 5/6 years, you tend to make CL with this many points.
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The point is not that Villa only need a draw. The point is that Villa losing away to Palace, given the form of both teams, is not a particularly unlikely result, and is therefore not remotely close to needing a "miracle".
 
KiD MoYeS said:
This is what happens when your main rival is challenging for the title against a team that nobody really cares about. You cheer on the team that nobody really cares about. We have been okay to lose to City in seasons Liverpool have been challenging. I don't see a problem with Spurs fans doing the same. Ange is a colourful guy, but he'd do well not to pick a fight with the fanbase. He's had a decent season.
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He’s 100% correct as the manager to voice this.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
This is what happens when your main rival is challenging for the title against a team that nobody really cares about. You cheer on the team that nobody really cares about. We have been okay to lose to City in seasons Liverpool have been challenging. I don't see a problem with Spurs fans doing the same. Ange is a colourful guy, but he'd do well not to pick a fight with the fanbase. He's had a decent season.
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"Decent" is about it though, which I think might be his problem. They got off to a flyer, and looked on course to have an excellent season. They're very likely to finish 5th, but as it stands, they could still finish 7th, and even if they win their last game, their only wins in their last 11 (of which they've lost five) will have been against teams in the bottom four. Not that it was actually on the cards, but win last night and they go into the last game with at least a reasonable chance of qualifying for the CL. Not only did they not win, but their fans were actively celebrating them losing as the goals flew in, and some of their players were laughing and joking, despite the result effectively ending their season prematurely.

As a manager, you can't really stand for that, and especially not when you're at a club like Spurs that has (rightly or wrongly) developed a reputation for celebrating failure over the last decade or so.
 
africanspur said:
Also did I get a concussion or am I mistaken in remembering Arsenal fans saying they'd be happy to lose the EL final (against Chelsea no less) if Spurs lost the CL final. Ie a chance for an actual trophy, as opposed to a theoretical chance of the 'top 4 trophy'?

Would you say that situation is more or less 'spursy' than spending almost the entire season top and still not winning the league?
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You've definitely had a concussion. 1 fan going on aftv and claiming this for clicks is not the same as the majority of your fan at the stadium celebrating your team losing out on Champions league football. Forget about me being an Arsenal fan, yesterday was one of the most bizarre things I've seen in football.

He's now the 3rd manager you've had in the last 3 years who has questioned your small club mentality.
 
Tottenham Hotspur midfielder Rodrigo Bentancur apologised to his team mate Son Heung-min on Friday after a video of him saying all South Korean people "look the same" had circulated online.

In a short clip posted on social media this week from Uruguayan Television programme Por La Camiseta, host Rafa Cotelo asks the Uruguay international for a Spurs player's shirt, to which Bentancur replies, "Sonny's?", adding: "It could be Sonny's cousin too as they all look the same."

Bentancur apologised after his comments were met with disapproval.
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Oh dear oh dear…
 
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Scanny said:
Any number of South American countries it seems.
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Racism exists the world over in many different ways. I just get annoyed when certain people claim other people say they re being racist against them while clearly having a problem with it of their own. Got annoying AF during the WC coming from some of the Argentinian fans for instance.
 
Redplane said:
Racism exists the world over in many different ways. I just get annoyed when certain people claim other people say they re being racist against them while clearly having a problem with it of their own. Got annoying AF during the WC coming from some of the Argentinian fans for instance.
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I don’t quite understand your post. Would you be able to elaborate?
 
Redplane said:
Basically that those living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Its clear racism exists in the same places that accuse others of being racist against them. A bit of projection .
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The UK does like to pretend it doesn’t have a racism issue. I grew up as a white person, but my father’s business partner was a Pakistani, and two of my best friends are black guys. Based on what I see and hear from my friends, we have tonnes of issues in this country. Some of the stories I could tell are shocking, to be honest.
 
Samid said:
Will mate last the season?
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I think so. It’s a bit much for people to read too much into one result. They’ve gone in pretty heavy on young players on the whole and some patience will be needed. They’ve got slightly more experienced players in Bentacour and Bissouma for midfield, although the later is suspended by the club, but the rest of their midfield are three young players, Pape Sarr, Gray and Bergvall.

They lacked depth last season but they’ve added Gray and Bergvall and now Solanke. A good season for them will be a top four finish but when you’ve got Arsenal, City, Liverpool, United, Chelsea, Villa and Newcastle all vying for those spots, I think there will be patience as long as they finish 6th or above. Even West Ham have invested a good amount this summer and will be looking to be a top 8 team. The top positions are stupidly competitive right now. And at least 3-4 clubs with realistic CL ambitions are going to have to accept missing out this season.
 
18 year old Bergvalll is going to be a superstar sadly. He made a huge error but his composure and retention skills under pressure is amazing.
 
Basso said:
18 year old Bergvalll is going to be a superstar sadly. He made a huge error but his composure and retention skills under pressure is amazing.
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His debut at 18 makes me proud to be a Swede. Hopefully he can become a great player and United can somehow get him in his prime years.
 
Posh Red said:
The UK does like to pretend it doesn’t have a racism issue. I grew up as a white person, but my father’s business partner was a Pakistani, and two of my best friends are black guys. Based on what I see and hear from my friends, we have tonnes of issues in this country. Some of the stories I could tell are shocking, to be honest.
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We just had a bunch of racist riots only a couple of weeks ago. I don't think we're in a position to be pretending anything.

But we ARE at least at a stage where we throw people in jail for it and it's culturally seen as unacceptable. Still a long way to go but it's further down the line than some places are.
 
Gotta be disappointed your big summer striker signing not turning up in games like this.
 
I think for Spurs it's enough just to play a bit of nice football and get plaudits but not actually challenge or win anything.

I don't think any single manager can change the mentality, that won't happen until Levy goes and they get owners driven to win.
 
Summer 2018 was when they bottled it all. They had a young team with Son+Kane and and a few other very decent standard players. That was the time to push on and sign players.
 
horsechoker said:
I think for Spurs it's enough just to play a bit of nice football and get plaudits but not actually challenge or win anything.

I don't think any single manager can change the mentality, that won't happen until Levy goes and they get owners driven to win.
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You’re lucky Glaston can only see this post and not reply! No doubt you’re on the list now.
 
horsechoker said:
I think for Spurs it's enough just to play a bit of nice football and get plaudits but not actually challenge or win anything.

I don't think any single manager can change the mentality, that won't happen until Levy goes and they get owners driven to win.
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Aye, they've tried the 'win something at all costs' managers in Jose and Conte, but there's just too much Spursiness to overcome.
 
Johnson, Maddison and Solanke do not look like players that are at the level they want to be and with Son looking on the downwide slide I'm not sure where their goals will come from.
 
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