Fact-checking will save us?

berbatrick

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Been meaning to make this for a while. But it's tedious and I'm both busy and lazy. The Joe Rogan thread, plus finding a bunch of relevant tweets today, prompted me to finally do it.

Since 2016, and the narrative of (mostly Russian) disinformation/bots as the determining force in the election, combating misinformation and determining The Facts has become an important part of US journalism. It's spread to the other parts of the west (Guardian heavily pushes stories about fake news on social media), and fact-checking is even turning up far away (a few sites and stories in India too). As usual, the US is the hegemon and sets the tone for the rest!
PizzaGate, QAnon, and finally Covid and the vast amounts of nonsense about it (does anyone remember the quaint 5G virus of summer 2020 , or has it all been forgotten with the vaccine stuff?) all emphasised the importance of combating misinformation.

One of the ways the good journalists will combat bad social media Russian Fox fake news is by fact checking. In the US, the most well-known fact checkers are Snopes, Politifact, and the WaPo fact checker with its Pinnochio rating.

Among the entire population, fact-checkers aren't particularly trusted, but among liberals, they are. This tracks with the partisan narratives from 2016. It means that fact-checkers have a pretty exalted place among liberals and among the mainstream/liberal media (which is pretty invested in the disinformation narrative). But are they brave paragons of truth, or ideological devotees to centrist politics, who expand or collapse the definition of facts to suit their agenda? (obviously the 2nd)

1. Flagging things as false/mixture even though they are literally true:
A classic of the genre is Bernie getting a "misleading" rating for saying that millions of Americans work 2 or 3 jobs, which is true, because the fact-checker did not like the use of the word "millions" to refer to literally 8 million people. Not making this up. This is not a fact-check. It's a ideological vibe check. It is someone trying to push back at politics he dislikes.

More examples here, here, here, here and here. All clear *facts*, not rated as such.

2. Defending partisan spin:
The libertarian Mercatus Center released a study showing that universal public healthcare would cost ~32tn over 10 years. It then put this number in the headline of a press release, and the press duly reported on this frightening price tag. A blogger went into the tables of the study and noted that its projection for healthcare spending under the current model for 10 years is ~34tn, and released his arithmetic with the 2tn saving as thee title.
The Bernie campaign then referred to this study - by an ideological opponent! - to note that his plan saves 2tn. For this, he was given 3 Pinnochios by the Washington Post fact-checker, who invited the Mercatus people to cry about Bernie using their published data in a way they didn't like. This shouldn't matter to a *fact-checker*, who has to determine if Bernie is representing a study's numbers faithfully, not if he is following it's authors' ideological spin. Once they put those numbers in that table and published it, they have to stand by them, or explain why it's wrong and retract the study!
A summary of the entire debacle here.


3. What isn't fact-checked -
Even with this seeming expansion in the scope of "fact"-checking, some things go unnoticed through these eagle-eyed guardians of democracy.



I searched and found nothing in snopes.com or politifact on this clearly misleading graph. Unlike in points 1 and 2, this is where a neutral fact-checkers adding a misleading/context missing might be helpful! For some reason, it's not been done.

Paid news by a lobby group is inserted into local news:
https://theintercept.com/2021/06/16/ed-newsfeed-american-federation-for-children-local-news/
Nothing from Snopes or Politifact, informing their readers that the "news anchors" on these segments are actually lobbyists. Again, context, which they are sometimes so eager to provide, would be useful here.

4. The bottomless pit of social media fact-checking:
Most fake news spreads through FB, insta, youtube, twitter, and they have started flagging (some) of it. Problem 1: obviously, they can't get it all, which means some fake news now appears more genuine since it's not been flagged. Problem 2: their fact-checking teams are even more ideologically biased, leading to predictable outcomes. Problem 3: openly in thrall to fake-news-spreading advertisers. Problem 4: algorithm-driven, and thus largely garbage: here it disallows factual information good vaccine effectiveness from being posted let alone shared, here it intervenes and erases a debate.
Not even getting into the debacle of the Hunter Biden story which could not be posted about or referred to on any social media, prior to any fact-checking being done on it. This was retroactively defended by creating a new standard that news referencing hacked materials cannot be shared (what about, say, the Pentagon papers or MKUltra?), and then quietly dropping that policy too.


Towards the end of this post, I realised that someone else wrote an article covering a lot of this 3 years ago, using a few of the same examples, with much better style. And with some interesting personal background on a prominent fact-checker. So uhh ignore everything my nonsense and read that instead.

Fake news sucks. Indian politics has been massively influenced by Whatsapp, this is a good writeup on how organised and poisonous it is. This happened, unbelievably. The covid vaccine thing is terrible.

But fact-checking comes with its own issues and biases and isn't effective at its supposed job.
 
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Im struggling with fact checking of late. The problem I now have is I am believing less and less things people I know tell me and am checking things all the time. The problem with that is the eroding confidence I have with my social circles and the subsequent feelings of tension when I find something to be false or incorrect. Its tiresome, not the errors but the subconscious need to make sure Im right. Of late I have made an effort not to try to correct people if I think they are wrong. There is a certain amount of reigning in my own ego which hasnt been fun as I realise how much it influences my thinking.
This whole era of fake news, conspiracy theory expansion and fact checking is becoming a real grind.
 
Im struggling with fact checking of late. The problem I now have is I am believing less and less things people I know tell me and am checking things all the time. The problem with that is the eroding confidence I have with my social circles and the subsequent feelings of tension when I find something to be false or incorrect. Its tiresome, not the errors but the subconscious need to make sure Im right. Of late I have made an effort not to try to correct people if I think they are wrong. There is a certain amount of reigning in my own ego which hasnt been fun as I realise how much it influences my thinking.
This whole era of fake news, conspiracy theory expansion and fact checking is becoming a real grind.

Correcting people, once you know for certain you are right, is a way of disseminating the truth. Otherwise falsehood wins forever. It is tedious but necessary.

Like me repeating that you should replace Ole with Tuchel. ;-)
 
Im struggling with fact checking of late. The problem I now have is I am believing less and less things people I know tell me and am checking things all the time. The problem with that is the eroding confidence I have with my social circles and the subsequent feelings of tension when I find something to be false or incorrect. Its tiresome, not the errors but the subconscious need to make sure Im right. Of late I have made an effort not to try to correct people if I think they are wrong. There is a certain amount of reigning in my own ego which hasnt been fun as I realise how much it influences my thinking.
This whole era of fake news, conspiracy theory expansion and fact checking is becoming a real grind.
I probably shouldn't, as it can be quite selfish I suppose, but I have chosen to try and live in ignorant bliss these past few years. I used to get involved in heated discussions and follow a lot of news etc but I have tried to cut a lot of it out of my life and feel much better for it.

One of my colleagues is completely consumed by current affairs and politics even though he will never engage or do anything about it outside of moaning and arguing with people who will argue back. He's so miserable and it changes nothing, it's not worth it for me.

I do find it disappointing when friends on social media air views that I didn't expect them to have, but again I just tend to unfollow so I don't see that shite.
 
benitez.jpg
 
I've become pretty convinced that no amount of actual fact checking will ever overcome cognitive dissonance on a scale required to have a positive impact on public policy.

Where a narrative has been established that people have an emotional tie to its extremely difficult to disconnect them from that to 'see the light'. The only answer is to have a more appealing counter-narrative, whether it is true or not. Frankly, as someone who cares about the truth I hate that I have formed this opinion.
 
One of my colleagues is completely consumed by current affairs and politics even though he will never engage or do anything about it outside of moaning and arguing with people who will argue back. He's so miserable and it changes nothing, it's not worth it for me.
That there is the bit that I think has become more and more visible, the unhappiness of it all
 
People who style themselves as arbiters of truth in being full of shit shocker. But yeah, it's depressing how cleanly these things just fall into cheerleading for your political team above all else. When the politics change, the facts change.

Remember how quickly the Covid lab leak hypothesis went from "DEBUNKED CONSPIRACY THEORY" to "oh yeah, that might have happened I guess" as soon as Biden said he was calling for an investigation into it? :lol:
 
The real world is a ploy to give as many responsibilities and financial burdens to people as possible in order to control them. Burdens bring less freedoms and less chance of rebellion.
Post pandemic the world is a mess, people are restless and trust is being eroded from those in power, hence the 'cost of living' going up, and wages stagnating, it produces more burdens upon the average folk.

Fact checkers are generally a good way of sifting the crap from the good stuff, however recently several fact checking websites have began to receive funding from Social media companies (Meta etc) along with individual donors.

This kind of funding inevitably leads to a possible influence over which facts are check d and how they are checked.
 
Fact checking in being as prone to spin and bias as science shocker. The latter being something that’s really come to the fore over the course of the pandemic.

It’s better than not checking facts though. Just like peer review is flawed as hell but still better than the alternative. The alternative is allowing the really batshit stuff to spread without any checks or measures, which is obviously a very bad thing.
 
I probably shouldn't, as it can be quite selfish I suppose, but I have chosen to try and live in ignorant bliss these past few years. I used to get involved in heated discussions and follow a lot of news etc but I have tried to cut a lot of it out of my life and feel much better for it.

One of my colleagues is completely consumed by current affairs and politics even though he will never engage or do anything about it outside of moaning and arguing with people who will argue back. He's so miserable and it changes nothing, it's not worth it for me.

I do find it disappointing when friends on social media air views that I didn't expect them to have, but again I just tend to unfollow so I don't see that shite.

I think your philosophy is excellent. Getting consumed by online media, especially Twitter, is brutal for your mental health. I gave up for years and got sucked back in by covid. But almost every time I spend any time on there it sours my mood. I need to quit again. I will quit again.
 
I think your philosophy is excellent. Getting consumed by online media, especially Twitter, is brutal for your mental health. I gave up for years and got sucked back in by covid. But almost every time I spend any time on there it sours my mood. I need to quit again. I will quit again.
Thanks, man. It’s best to save your energy for more important things closer to home.

I can see why Covid has taken a hold, though. A lot of the discussion and action around it has been infuriating. On the back of Brexit plus Trump etc it seems it’s been an absolute shitshow for a long time.
 
Thanks, man. It’s best to save your energy for more important things closer to home.

I can see why Covid has taken a hold, though. A lot of the discussion and action around it has been infuriating. On the back of Brexit plus Trump etc it seems it’s been an absolute shitshow for a long time.

Yeah. Although, ironically, we consume a lot of the same shit in this place that we would consume on Twitter. So I can’t really talk about disengaging from the depressing online news cycle when I spend so much time on the caf. Although, to be fair, we’re definitely protected from the most egregious stuff.
 
Yeah. Although, ironically, we consume a lot of the same shit in this place that we would consume on Twitter. So I can’t really talk about disengaging from the depressing online news cycle when I spend so much time on the caf. Although, to be fair, we’re definitely protected from the most egregious stuff.
Ha yeah true. I try to avoid threads I already know are going to annoy me if I can.
 
Since 2016


The only thing that has changed is the fact that people can spread misinformation more easily. The media has been spreading misinformation ever since I remember (and I'm not young).
 
whenever a major story breaks, i always have a look on the guardian and the beeb sites, then also take a gander on the dailymail online. the 'facts' may be the same but the difference in narratives can be shocking. once you get past all the pics and stories about 'attractive' c list celebs..ahem...
 
I've come to a point where I only read news from 3 different sources. BBC, DW and EuroNews. Lately I'm moving away from BBC because I dislike that they don't name the authors in many articles.