Come on, he's still spent a shit load and missed out a player that was very unrealistic really. Ancelotti did OK when Real didn't deliver Mbappe. Good coaches move on and find another way. It's actually startling to have a manager who openly admits he can't do it unless he's got his perfect 11 every week. These excuses don't wash when we've struggled in practically every game, dropped points or been outplayed by the fecking fodder of the league. We've actually got a manager who needs galacticos to beat the likes of Palace, Bournemouth, Forest etc.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager / awaiting clarity from the club over his position
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
Wasn't sure if this was sarcasm at first.. Every manager has targets they couldn't get, even Moyes. Kane was probably obtainable if he wasn't so obsessed with Mount after getting rejected by Frenkie
Yep, if we're waiting for another Pep or Fergie, they're probably one every 20 years. If that's what they are planning then it's time to buckle in for a difficult future I think.
However, I still refuse to believe that Ineos have spent all this money to play such a long game. If they have then I can only laugh and applaud ETH on being the luckiest manager I've ever known to arrive at a big club who wants to play perpetual rebuild for the next decade, and sees the manager as inconsequential to anything. Never thought I'd see the day, but it's just our luck that it happens here.
Couldn't actually finish this. He's annoying to listen to, unfortunately.
Exactly this. Good managers are still able to imprint what they want out of a side regardless. Very few managers get to the level of Pep, Klopp, Ferguson, Wenger, etc where they're there long enough that you can truly say the squad is theirs.
Arteta's only in that list too because Arsenal accepted they weren't gonna get Champions League for multiple seasons and did a squad overhaul. Man Utd aren't in a financial position to do that. The manager should be good enough to do like Ancelotti, Emery, Howe, etc and make the team look good despite it not really being their squad.
Let's say we fail to win another game this season, how can Ineos possibly justify keeping him on then? It will kill everyone's collective morale for next season if he remains in charge unless we somehow pull some spectacular signings out of the bag.
I think he stays after that interview yeah. He'll be very lucky, but at least with the INEOS game model we'll hopefully stop signing Ten Hag players if we do end up having to sack him eventually.
If he is staying, he should be told under no uncertain terms that if this continues into next season he'll be sacked early.
If he is staying, he should be told under no uncertain terms that if this continues into next season he'll be sacked early.
Haven't watched a press conference of his this season. It's like watching/listening to the Tories.
I just know he'll lie before he opens his mouth, so there's no point wasting energy with his propaganda
Him persisting with Mount when Rice was available costed us this season. He massively underrate this league thinking he could play a formation with two CAMs.
I don't think anybody is saying that. I think people are looking at the big picture and saying that, in the long term, sticking with the manager and giving him a chance to rebuild the squad properly and work with a support team that is not completely inept makes more sense than firing and replacing yet another manager.
The thing is, I doubt we had a settled back 4 last season too. I'm too lazy to check but we went through periods of Malacia playing RB and Shaw playing at CB, and not by choice.
You know the Arthur fist meme? That's how I feel reading both of your posts with regards to ten Hag. The same goes for VP89 and Plant0x84. They've taken a backseat recently. But they'll be back one day.
I actually only signed up because of the four of you. Haha. I had to join the counter movement. More soldiers were needed on this front. Our forces need a dark knight to rise up and take on Goldbridge on other platforms.
I never said that either of you shouldn't be allowed to post your views. I just find the both of you are delusional with regards to this topic. There's no point in sugar-coating.
The reality is that you both rate ten Hag highly, continue to search high and low for reasons as to why things haven't worked out this season, and would like to see a new contract offered. Let's not pretend otherwise by claiming things like contextualising. You're entitled to your view.
Luckily for you, I do think ten Hag will be the manager next season and will improve on this season. It would be pretty much impossible not to.
Don't take personal offence from what a stranger on the internet says. It's just a football forum. We're not debating in front of Parliament. It doesn't have to be so formal. Nobody was called anything below the belt.
INEOS at the beginning have stated that their stated aim is to win important trophies and be back on top. One thing to butter up supporters by talking the talk, another to actually walk the walk.
We’ll see how serious they are in due time.
I don't think ETH deserves another at United as he has not proven anything in football except the Dutch league. Unless he is Ancelotti, Pep and Klopp, I wouldn't give him 1 more season. He can talk about his football as much as he wants but can his style of football win a league championship or champions league? I seriously doubt it, our midfield will be constantly overrun and defenders always under pressure when the ball is lost. If he can win City convincing in the FA Cup final else he is unable convince me that he is the right person for the job.
Not signing Kane was one of the better things that happened to United.
Signing Kane would have pushed expectations for this season to levels that ten Hag wouldn't have been comfortable with. Kind of like the 2021 summer window, when Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo were signed. Ole wasn't able to deal with the added pressure.
I don't think Bruno and Kane would have worked well together at United. Kane likes to drop off to link the play. They'd get in each other's way at times.
Plus, the spine of the team would have been Kane (30), Bruno (29), Casemiro (31), Varane (30), Lisandro (25) and Onana (27). That's a team that needs to win big things now. Not one for the future.
I think we should have opted for a 24-26 year old ST instead of Højlund. United have signed too many 30+ year old strikers over the years. Ibrahimović, Ighalo, Cavani, Ronaldo. Too short term.
Lots of managers don't get every single player they want. Not even Pep. City tried to sign Rice and Paquetá last summer. They had to settle for Matheus Nunes in the end.
Why does it make sense to let a manager stay just to rebuild the squad, when you don't intend on keeping him? This is the hurdle I can't get past with this logic and, for me, it's been one of the worst arguments of them all from the pro-Ten Hag lot. I know the arguments you'll make, but I can't see any logic at all. Just right place, right time? As in, he's already here so feck it, let him do it?
And on top of this, you're trusting the judgement of a guy who had had carte blanche on signings, brought in guys who he knows very well and has worked with extensively, who have not been good enough. And he's tried to sign more dross on top but luckily failed. This is the guy who we want to trust to identify what is needed? It's just lunacy.
Agreed. They'll have wasted their goodwill and it'll take something amazing to get it back.
We do throw caution to the wind though because of how high our front players stay! We've just been extremely poor at executing a lot of what we want to do but the intention is clearly there.
We create openings, overloads and opportunities a whole bunch but are poor are converting those situations into chances due to poor decision making and bad finishing. In spite of that, we've still scored 20 in the last 8. Sure, nothing that great but not exactly 'shit'.
I'll also modify what I said, the squad is a mix of bang average, young (inconsistent) and incompatible players:
Among the players that have started recently, awb is piss poor, eriksen, mcT, 32 year old casimero, Antony and amad are bang average. Rashford cannot play a pressing game and his flank is almost always a vulnerability. Maguire and every other available cb are not proactive defenders by nature and always drop. Mainoo and garnacho and have shown incredible potential but have also had stinkers. Hojlund has lost form.
Add to that, our whole available bench are bang average (and that's being kind), to the point where we can't rotate out our 21 year old striker in his first season in the prem.
Ten hag is sticking to his plan even when we doesn't have the personnel to execute it and you have every right to criticise that and demand his sacking. To me, if the alternative is caving in to how the players prefer to play (lazy low block tactics) again after they've done it over and over again in the last 10 years, I'd rather go through this painful process and see where it leads. I think it'll hold us in good stead long term even if ten hag leaves eventually.
Which 24-26 year old striker would that have been? The striker market outside of Haaland is young potential or old and proven. The middle years are full of middling players.
This is where I disagree. It's wishful thinking that you could do this in a league as competitive as ours. It's like all the people on the caf who earnestly explained how Ronaldo would be fine leading a high press. Of course he wasn't and never could be in the EPL at his age. Just saying it can be made to work doesn't make it true.
Of course you are not wrong. ETH is playing a system that does not suite half his players at all. We knew this from the beginning and we must now suck it up. The choice is change the system or change the players. My view is that he has roughly the right system and the wrong players and we should fix that. He may well get sacked along the way (in fact I'm sure he will) but we have to stick with an aspiration to high press, fast transition fluid football or something not unlike it. Going back to Oleball or LVG borefests or Jose shit on a stick is completely unacceptable to me.
This makes sense. They've spent a fortune to buy their shares. They must now be going all in to build something quickly.
Osimhen, Vlahović, J.David, En-Neysri, Openda, etc.
I'd have taken any of them. The former two would have been expensive though.
What on earth? I absolutely intend on keeping him. Otherwise, as you say, what's the point? As for his signings - I love how people just write them all off. Some hits, some misses. Martinez and Hojlund in particular I would class as successful, Mount will eventually turn out to be a good signing, imo and Onana is continuing to improve.
As for my reasons for keeping ETH here you go:
1. He showed in his first season he can get the players to perform to a high level, even if there was some inconsistency - but that was to be expected.
2. His second season has been devastated by injuries. People dismiss this, but it's a reality. 30 something defensive combinations in 40 something games is going to mess with your form, not to mention injuries to Mount, Mainoo, Martial and others for substantial periods of time. No left back for more or less the whole season. No Martinez, one of our best players last year, for the whole season.
3. His development of the youth and building of a connection between the youth team and the senior squad has been brilliant.
4. Who else is out there that is a realistic option who would likely be an upgrade? I hear names mentioned, none of whom inspire confidence that they could do a better job than ETH. Let's hear those suggestions.
5. Any new appointment would be a reset on the clock for rebuilding the club.
ETH has had an up and down season, and it's been mostly grim, but I think we should let him work through the process and that he has shown enough in moments to be trusted to see out his plan. Should next year be a repeat of this one, when he has a fully fit squad to chose from and the support of a competent board, then a change would be a fair decision.
There have been multiple posts that address and counter every single point you've made.
That's why this thread keeps going around in circles. Haha. It's the same points rehashed every few months.
Time is a flat circle.
Thanks for your input. I was responding to an individual, but cool, cool, cool.
If we get the structure right then it becomes less important if the manager is changed. That's why Brighton do so well. And why we don't.
Brighton have done well for a club of their size. They actually didn't get their summer business right last year, but anyway.
You could have the best structure in the world, but you still need a special manager to win the big trophies regularly.
City and Liverpool would still have had some success without Pep and Klopp. But they wouldn't have enjoyed the same level of success without either leading them.
Having the right manager is vital. Elite managers raise the level of the club. They have charisma, drive and leadership in abundance.
SAF was able to have arguably the best spell of his career under the Glazers. 2006-2009 was the one period in modern history where we dominated both domestically and in Europe.
INEOS can't polish a turd. They could put everything in place, but that wouldn't matter if the manager isn't elite. Steve Bruce wouldn't win the league with this current City team.
INEOS might be able to minimise some of ten Hag's weaknesses though.
That third paragraph absolutely nails it, like you say we need more depth in all those areas. Hopefully with the new structure we only appoint managers who fit how INEOS want to play. We won't have these change of strategies seen so often in the last decade.
Watkins, Toney, Isak, Solanke, Cunha (who we were even previously strongly linked to in 2021).
The fact that so many are willing to just let him start next season and then sack him “if it isn’t working” is fecking absurd to me. Just completely willing to write off yet another season after a full season of evidence that the current guy is out of his depth.
When someone shows you who they are you should believe them.
When someone shows you who they are you should believe them.
Groundhog day thread always delivers huh
How do people unironically come out with this sort of fluff.
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They’d want to watch Neville going on about this exact situation, he left the manager in charge and ended up sacking him a month into the season, and then sacked his replacement that same season, you have to make your choice now and that choice is he has to go.
After watching the interview, I felt EtH will stay next season.
Unless he does Arteta, can't see how he can go from this clueless football to tactically stable and controlled football.
Unless he does Arteta, can't see how he can go from this clueless football to tactically stable and controlled football.
What are you on about? Which part is inaccurate, exactly?
Do people who defend him to give another season also believe Ole, LvG and Mourinho should have been given more time due to the structural issues and them building good will due to their previous seasons? Or why is it exclusive to Ten Hag? He has us playing the most naive football possible, not remotely intelligent. You’d think United’s legacy under Fergie was built on full throated attacking football the way his approach is praised. Fergie was a pragmatist and cared about results very much, and would not excuse injuries at any given moment for finishing well below expectations.
In my opinion, if Ten Hag gets to stay, he absolutely cannot have any say over transfers, his judgment of players on the market is very poor and he loves signing his former buddies at various clubs who may be good enough for Ajax but not remotely for the premier league.
In my opinion, if Ten Hag gets to stay, he absolutely cannot have any say over transfers, his judgment of players on the market is very poor and he loves signing his former buddies at various clubs who may be good enough for Ajax but not remotely for the premier league.
Well aside from there not being an up to the down, it’s just more of the failed United manager propaganda bullshit bingo
Trust in the process, been good in moments, just needs more support, squad needs another rebuild, can’t coach without a competent structure, if there’s still no improvement in another year then, getting a new manager would undo the progress etc etc
Not defending ETH, but Mourinho basically fired himself. Ole was never good enough to get the job in the first place. I didn't have a big problem with LVG. The football was boring, but at least we didn't get hit for 5,6,7 against City and Liverpool.
Ah brilliant, just choosing our own narrative now, even if it's not true, I see. So no ups. So beating Liverpool with a last-minute winner in extra time? Reaching a cup final? Seeing the emergence of the brilliant Kobbie Mainoo? Coming from 2 down to beat Villa 3-2? And there have been more. But yeah, it's all been down.
Huge mistake INEOS backing him instead of appointing Tuchel who really wants the job. I also don't buy there will be wholesale changes due to the stupid wages many of them are on either. Then again perhaps it was a case of selling players or sacking manager and it's clear which one they have chosen.
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On the overlap episode recently, Neville mentioned that the biggest mistake he made as owner of Salford was giving a manager a couple of months of the next season to turn things around. It can backfire horribly if it goes wrong (which it is likely to, turning things around is much harder than keeping the same trajectory). Yet this is exactly what some people are calling for INEOS to do.