DONT need a link-up man, NEED an *alternative*....

ShAoLiN_ChRoNiC

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OK with all this striker speculation I am getting annoyed with all these people BEGGING for us to get Ronaldinho/Di Canio and all these other link-up men.

Dont you see? You are all looking for a foil for Ruud, well atm we have Giggs, Scholes, Ole, Forlan who all act as foils for Ruud. BUUUTTT when Ruud is out then we're in deep shit cos none of those do anything for us up front as the main striker.

So we want an ALTERNATIVE to Ruud. Someone who can play as a foil OR as the main man. Ronaldinho/DiCanio certainly do NOT. Bringing them = where does Scholes play now?

However I wouldnt mind Di Canio (or some other old guy) short term and someone like Cisse/Defoe in the Summer. However if we fail to get another main striker we will not win the league and will be VERY reliant on Ruud to win us the CL. We have our link-up man, he has come good - Scholesy.
 
I agree with that, although I like Ronaldinho very much. We already have Giggs, Scholes, Veron, Beckham IMO, we need another striker - Chevchenko or Cisse - (a top team needs 3 or 4 top strikers) and also, IMO, another defensive midfielder because against attacking team we need to be solid defensively from the midfield.
 
Originally posted by Elfie:
<strong>I agree with that, although I like Ronaldinho very much. We already have Giggs, Scholes, Veron, Beckham IMO, we need another striker - Chevchenko or Cisse - (a top team needs 3 or 4 top strikers) and also, IMO, another defensive midfielder because against attacking team we need to be solid defensively from the midfield.</strong><hr></blockquote>

problem is, this new defensive midfielder won't get too many games once butt and keane are fit.

which means that since we can only buy in Jan, this new player probably won't get games at all..

i think we should really look into promoting Michael Stewart and give him more chances instead of looking elsewhere in this department.
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We don't need any more feckin' midfielders! Of any type.

We need to rebuild our striker squad - urgently. We used to have a great striker squad - Sheringham, Cole, Yorke & Ollie - there was something there for any occasion - pace, movement, accuracy, finishing, dribbling, guile, experience.

Compare to now: Forlan, RVN & Ollie. Out of the above, we lack guile, pace, movement, dribbling. No wonder we can't score at the moment!
 
Originally posted by nickm:
<strong>We used to have a great striker squad - Sheringham, Cole, Yorke & Ollie - there was something there for any occasion - pace, movement, accuracy, finishing, dribbling, guile, experience.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Man I miss that striking team :(
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Originally posted by nickm:
<strong>We don't need any more feckin' midfielders! Of any type.

We need to rebuild our striker squad - urgently. We used to have a great striker squad - Sheringham, Cole, Yorke & Ollie - there was something there for any occasion - pace, movement, accuracy, finishing, dribbling, guile, experience.

Compare to now: Forlan, RVN & Ollie. Out of the above, we lack guile, pace, movement, dribbling. No wonder we can't score at the moment!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Agree. So another all-out striker similar to Ruud is not the "alternative" we need. Someone with enough pace and skill to open up defence is who we need to look for at this moment.

That quick forward can partner Ruud (or Ole, in case Ruud is unavailable) up front. Scholes should return to midfield in order to maximize his productivity and utilize his full potential.
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I didnt mean we need a second Ruud, we need an alternative, another option for when he isnt performing or injured or simply isnt doing the business. Although someone similar to Ruud would be better than a link-up man. If we get a link up man we're boned, it will feck up scholesy all again etc. Basically a front man, even Owen who is not like Ruud at all (GET DEFOE!!).

Schevchenko would be IDEAL. Not my first choice but he has everything we need at the mo.

As for midfielders, I think we need some kind of backup for Giggs/Becks. Hopefully Richardson can grow up this year and be good back up for Giggs. As for Becks....Timms? Chadwick looks like he's missing out.
 
Your agrgiuments about Ronaldinho are just poor. He scored twice in PSG's 3 nil win vs Marseille. If thats not what stikers do I don't no what is. Besides, we have never replaced Sheringham. Ole,Cole and Yorke where all Van Nistelrooy type forwards. Sheringham howvere was the main difference amongst them.

For me I believe we need some one good in the air, capable of playing as a half-nine/fifth midfielder with a scoring record with excess dribbling skills and pace. Ronaldinho and especially Schevchenko fit the bill .Gudjohnsen too. And if you want a kid so does Mido or Zlatan. If we got any of those mentioned above we would have found the perfect Cantona/Sheringham, replcement and the perfect foil for Ruud.
Thus says the chief. :cool:
 
I am a Veron's supporter, and i do believe that he is improving a lot at OT but the facts are

1 Fergie's strategy of bringing him in while sending Scholes up front was the start of Manutd's decline

Why?

A Bringing him lead to the 4-4-1-1 role
B The midfield had never settled down since Veron came to OT
C The 4-4-1-1 role had blocked the way to former legends A Cole and D Yorke
d Without Cole we lost the pace in the forward line which was lethal against slow yet solid defenses
E The 4-4-1-1 formation had moved Scholes, Beckham, Veron and GIGGS here and there in the midfield and attack, breaking forever that nearly telepatic understanding which was the Main secret weopon for Man Utd
f The fast counter attacks which was the trademark of the treble winning team was disrupted forever with the 4-4-1-1

My conclusion is this No matter how good Veron is we JUST CANNOT AFFORD HIM

My plan would be

1 Sell Veron

2 Return to the 4-4-2, with Man Utd's classic midfield back to stay

3 Bring in a valid winger which can operate easily on both wings giving perfect cover to Giggs and Becks
( by doing this you can afford to release becks from his wide role whenever you need a replacement to scholes) my faviorites are Castroman ( 5m Lazio) or Duff (13m Blackburn)

4 Bring in a REAL creative link man like Raul, Totti, Del Piero or Ronaldinho

5 Bring in a perfect cover to RVN ( EX Ibrahamovic or Gudjhansen )
 
I agree. To your list I'd add, 'say goodbye to Blanc'. Too old, sends out wrong signal etc.

If another manager was to come in, I am certain Veron, Blanc, Fortune, Forlan would go, in would come some young hungry squad players and a £15-20million pound striker.
 
Food for thought that (Devlish and PC Nickm)

I too have been defending Veron for some time now. Though its nice to see him doing the business in Europe, and improving in the Prem, I've become sceptical that it'll ever really work. Shame cos when we signed him it looked nailed on, that he'd take us to a new level. The level of Real M.

Having jumped on the narrow minded bandwagon (those who see a couple of average games and reach for the panic button) I'd love to proven that I gave up too early.

If SAF thought he was in for a couple of easy cool down years.... <img src="graemlins/nervous.gif" border="0" alt="[Nervous]" />
 
Originally posted by nickm:
<strong>I agree. To your list I'd add, 'say goodbye to Blanc'. Too old, sends out wrong signal etc.

If another manager was to come in, I am certain Veron, Blanc, Fortune, Forlan would go, in would come some young hungry squad players and a £15-20million pound striker.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Why Fortune. He is a great squad player, loyal, hardworking...a good cover for Giggsy IMO
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Let's face it, the strength of the squad has declined. During the 90's Utd had such strength in depth that their 2nd choice team would have been capable of winning the league.

A new manager would run the rule over a number of Utd players: Forlan and Fortune are grafters and honest but not Utd class. Personally, I think Forlan was a panic buy. The board recognised McClaren's ability to spot talent and poached him because they needed a striker and he was within the price range. Ironically, I think Forlan would have done far better at Middlesborough than he has with us. He'd have played full games and more regularly. He wouldn't have had the level of pressure or expectation he has with us.

If a team came in with an offer for him at the same price Utd paid, he'd be out the door - no question.

Similarly, with Veron. It doesn't look like this season he has found his niche as we'd hoped. He still seems to be on a different wave length to his team mates at times. An asset in Europe, he often appears ineffective in the Prem. Utd would have to take a massive loss to offload him - especially in the current light of football finances globally.

If Fergie stays on another two years then Utd will be looking to find replacements for Keane and a number of the class of '92. Once players reach their peak in their late 20's it is a very short period before inevitable decline. Utd have a lot of players of a similar age just coming to their peak.

That's why Utd need to spend wisely and invest in quality players and not superstars.

Escude seems a step in the right direction. Duff is a must IMHO. A player like Defoe or Rooney - raw talent are what Utd need to invest in instead of putting all their proverbial eggs in the one basket of a ready made superstar who may or may not deliver.
 
Originally posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber:
<strong>Your agrgiuments about Ronaldinho are just poor. He scored twice in PSG's 3 nil win vs Marseille. If thats not what stikers do I don't no what is. Besides, we have never replaced Sheringham. Ole,Cole and Yorke where all Van Nistelrooy type forwards. Sheringham howvere was the main difference amongst them.

For me I believe we need some one good in the air, capable of playing as a half-nine/fifth midfielder with a scoring record with excess dribbling skills and pace. Ronaldinho and especially Schevchenko fit the bill .Gudjohnsen too. And if you want a kid so does Mido or Zlatan. If we got any of those mentioned above we would have found the perfect Cantona/Sheringham, replcement and the perfect foil for Ruud.
Thus says the chief. :cool: </strong><hr></blockquote>

OK this kind of post just annoys me :mad: Again someone says "He would be the perfect partner for Ruud!!" But what the Hell will you do without Ruud? Have our attack engulfed in a sea of defenders not knowing what to do? In case you havent noticed Ole has a fantastic strike rate, doesnt mean he can lead the line for us in Ruuds abcense.

Ole is a 2nd striker. No doubt about it, dont debate it, he is not a Ruud type player. Just like Rebrov was to Shevchenko. And we all know how well Rebrov did at Spurs as the main man.

We dont need a Sheringham/Cantona replica to win things. We need a team that can beat other teams. Scholes is on fire in that 2nd striker position. HIm and Ruud for Europe all the way baby.

BUT what about when Ruud is out? We need some kind of presence up there, a Hughes, a Cole, a Yorke to get the ball and pass it on. Its a fairly simple idea. If we sell Veron, Ronaldinho would be fine. But to spend another £20+mill on someone who is NOT a Ruud-alternative would be the equivalent of suicide right now when we NEED a CF so bad.

and lets not start dissing Veron in every single thread.
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I agree that we don't need to bring in someone who will play behind Ruud all the time. A la Sherri, but if we do bring a striker in it would help if he had the ability to drop deep and hold up the ball when needed. If we go for a smaller player, with great pace (my preference) then either a midfielder must step up and player more advanced or Ruud must be prepared to drop off. Something which he does but for my money, when facing away from goal, he is too easily muscled off the ball. He show his real strength when he's driving towards the goal.
 
Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

problem is, this new defensive midfielder won't get too many games once butt and keane are fit.

which means that since we can only buy in Jan, this new player probably won't get games at all..

i think we should really look into promoting Michael Stewart and give him more chances instead of looking elsewhere in this department.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think our first choice CM pairing should be Keano and Scholes, but I think unless Fergie aquires a link up man then he will persevere trying to play Scholes in that role.

Can't really comment about the Scots lad Stewart, haven't seen enough of him, but I did see him getting worked up and sent off against N Ireland in a recent U-21 game, and I was a bit concerned that he couldn't control himself against shite players like that, but he may just have had an off day.
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Originally posted by Canadian Dee:
<strong>

Can't really comment about the Scots lad Stewart, haven't seen enough of him, but I did see him getting worked up and sent off against N Ireland in a recent U-21 game, and I was a bit concerned that he couldn't control himself against shite players like that, but he may just have had an off day.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It shows that he is committed to winning every ball which is just what you want in a CM. You can't blame him for overexhuberance.
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Originally posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber:
<strong>Your agrgiuments about Ronaldinho are just poor. He scored twice in PSG's 3 nil win vs Marseille. If thats not what stikers do I don't no what is. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Hmmm. Not sure about how that applies in that game.
Ronnie scored from a penalty and from a freekick. Strikers can do that i suppose, but so can Beckham. ;)
Not dissing Ronnie but i don't see him as a striker. Now Cisse on the other hand. :cool:
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We need both a creative forward and a striker. If there is the need than veron should be sacrificed.

BTW it is better for OT to try to control Stewart Now or else he will end up like Keano.Sending yourself of IS BAD AND ITS CALLED STUPIDITY AND NOT COMMITMENT. It damages your team (as Keano's numerous suspensions had already showed far too well)

I really miss the Old Fergie which fired Incey just because he thought he was the Guvner. If Fergie was 5 yrs younger he would have never tolerated Keano STUPID Behavior.
 
The Chief said:

Your agrgiuments about Ronaldinho are just poor. He scored twice in PSG's 3 nil win vs Marseille. If thats not what stikers do I don't no what is.

Agreed with Alex hurley.s comments on this...Ronny.s 1st goal was a fluke & the 2nd. as said from the spot so not evidence of the stirkers role....I too would love to see the guy here but we need another classical striker IMO & urgently
 
For the chronic:
Incase You haven't forgotten when Sheringham was around we had only twpo stikers. Because Yorke after 99 became non existent. And Cole plus Solksjaer always worked well with Teddy. Besides. Ronaldindo/ Schevchenko are the only players that fit the Sheringham description. Can play behind or alongside Ruud, can lead the line score goals crearte aand are a threat in and around the 18 yard box. And besides Ole is a better finisher than Cole and Yorke ever where. f he was playing along sie a Ronaldinho or Schevchenko he will have a field day imo.

PS: Ole has not been on the form this season that he had last year. If it comes back yopu can not say he can't lead the line.Thus says the chief :cool:
 
In addition. Cisse is the type of shit striker with no experience that we don't need. Guys be real. WE DON"T NEED POTENTIAL. Forlan is enough. We now need some one who will destroy oppenest with the type of skill and running of Henry will finsihing some scoring chances will creating more than enough for other team mates.

Furthermore, how many times will Ronaldinho score an amazing goal without this Englaish commentators calling it a fluke? They can say all the want but even David Seamn if he was honest with himself will admit the lad beat him fair and square. No error nor fluke.


And when I say a Cantona/Sheringham player: Remeber both these gents where creative hitmen. Creative hitmen currently existing in foot ball are Delpiero, Schevchenko, Ronaldinho, Mido, Gudjohnsen but to mention a few.
thus says the chief <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
 
Didnt think it was possible, someone who chats more shit than me!!

"Chief"
Shevchenko is a front man...not a link up man. I agree though he will be ideal as a partner or alternative to Ruud. Gudjohnsen is not a Cantona type player....he is a 2nd striker like Ole, or Rebrov and he would work too. Players who perform in Cantona position are Del Piero, Ronaldinho, Totti, Di Canio etc etc.

Last year Ruud and Ole carried the team into *only* 3rd, this year with even less firepower (and we cant expect the same form) we'll be struggling for fourth! We cant expect them to carry us again which is why we need 4 consistant strikers.

Ronaldinho great player sure, but can he play 4-5-1 by himself up front? Heck no. He simply isnt that type of player. You are pegging us BACKWARDS. Cos him in = who out? He wont be here to sit on the bench. Him in = more problems. Your not thinking straight are you, your still thinking about a partner for Ruud.

As for not buying potential - geez can you be any further from reality?

Give me Defoe/Duff/Joe Cole/Rooney/Portillo/Cisse/Mexes anyday, I wouldnt turn any of em down. Foolish thing to say.
 
Originally posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber:
<strong> Cisse is the type of shit striker with no experience that we don't need.
Furthermore, how many times will Ronaldinho score an amazing goal without this Englaish commentators calling it a fluke?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Cisse is shit with no experience????????
and then you follow it up by calling for speed and skill ( both categories in which Cisse far exceeds Ronnie). ;)
I didn't think that the World Cup goal was a fluke, but nor does it back up your argument that
Ronaldinho is a striker.
This thread is about whether we need a linkman as opposed to an out and out striker. There are very few that are both and Ronaldinho is IMHO not one.
He is not even PSGs main striker.
This is not to say he can't be a very good signing for us, but i agree with Mr Chronic that our priority should be a striker. <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />

Clue for our scouts below.
aja_cisse.jpg
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I think there are few options but IMO
Buy Di Canio in January [Low fee - 1-2-3 yr deal] If he fits in, then he will provide valuable options over the next couple of years.

Shevchenko - to partner Ruud. Hopefully we could land him for 10-15M and let him have the rest of this season to gel with the team - ready to go flat out from the start of nest season.
As I too believe Utd are at their best when playing 4-4-2. Let the midfield get back to normal and have two potent strikers up front.

<img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" />
 
Sholin I meant potential in the striking department. Remeber we lost top guns in Yorke, Cole and Sheringham. God knows we nedd to get at least another top gun forward to balance having Rudd in the team. And about Schevchenko, he is a hit man yes but Milan have used him where rivaldo plays currently and he has never looked out of place. I think Eiduer could do that as well.

And about Cisee being shit well thats abit to strong a word to use on him but still. We really nedd top dogs not up and comming young guns.

thus says the chief :cool:
 
I disagree, we need a link up man or someone who can double as both, plus a Pacey striker.

Note-98/99
Sheringham: Link up man-gone
Yorke: Link up man-gone
Cole: Pacey striker-gone
Solskjaer: out and out striker

02/03
Van Nistelrooy: out and out striker
Solskjaer: out and out striker
Forlan: winger??

we need a cole replacement, perferably faster and someone to play the role vacated by Sheringham.
 
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