Dominoes Draft SF1 - Tuppet vs Diarm

Who will win based on all the players at their respective peaks?


  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .

Moby

Dick
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
51,356
Location
Barcelona, Catalunya
TEAM TUPPET

Tuppet-formation-tactics.png



TEAM DIARM

Team-Diarm-formation-tactics.png


TACTICS TEAM TUPPET
Formation: Standard 4-2-3-1

  • Ronaldo is the new edition and replaces RVN. As probably the greatest number 9 of all time and with service from Cruyff, Boniek & Littbarski, Ronaldo is set to give Diarm's defense a torrid time.

  • Cruyff is primary playmaker of the team, would be anywhere he is needed and has got hard working and pacey attacking players around him to help him dictate play by stretching the defense.

  • Vogts would be man marking Ronaldinho. He had great success with Cruyff, should be able to handle Ronaldinho as well.

  • With no direct winger to contend with Zambrotta is given license to attack the right side of Diarm. Kaltz is needed to provide width on the right side and Zambo / Boniek combinatino would make it very hard for him. Seedorf would need to support a lot on right side, decreasing his influence in midfield.

  • Littbarski is instructed to be more of a wide playmaker. As he is fluent on both sides and center, he would move to center when Cruyff is overloading the left side.

  • Davids is defensive B2B player, he would help out our defense against Bergkemp.

  • Ocwirk is the holding midfielder and also deep lying playmaker. He would use his excellent passing for quick transitions when opportunity comes. He would also shield defense and track Suarez.

  • Maldini and Blanc are complete modern CBs and both have good ball playing skills. Blanc would challenge Batigol in air, while Maldini would be more aggressive stopper utilizing his speed.


TACTICS TEAM DIARM

  • A world class, rock solid defence as well as a truly great goalkeeper.
  • Ball players all over the pitch and the ability to build attacks from anywhere.
  • A beautifully balanced midfield - energy, technique, skill, discipline, creativity and attacking intent.
  • A ruthless and varied attack. Subtlety, flair, penetration and intelligence with 3 brilliant, complimentary but very different forwards.

Tactics

We've come this far so lets not reinvent the wheel!

We will retain the asymmetrical 433 which served us so well during the early rounds. Deschamps will hold the midfield from deep, Seedorf will offer energy and industry on the right hand side of the midfield with Kaltz an ever willing option providing width and thrust down the right flank. Luis Suarez Miramontes brings creativity, tenacity, style and cutting edge to the left of centre - himself and Ronaldinho will dovetail nicely while protected and supported by the predominantly defensive (but always dangerous on the overlap) Denis Irwin.

Our side is built upon a rock solid foundation at the back. Two nasty bastards in the centre of defence - both brilliant defenders and neither willing to give an opponent a seconds rest.

Fullbacks who are as at home in attack as they are excellent in defence, will deal with anything thrown at them while complimenting our superb midfield.

The industry and intelligence of Deschamps provides the perfect platform for Seedorf and Suarez to dictate the play. The Spaniard in particular will be in his element here, creating and probing from all over to find gaps and release our gifted trio up front.

Ours is an attack which boasts everything. Flair, trickery, dribbling and finesse from the left through Ronaldinho. Guile, intelligence, incisiveness and creativity in the hole from Bergkamp and then power, pace, presence and explosive finishing from the ultimate number 9 up top in Batistuta.

At this stage there isn't too much point trying to find weaknesses in each others sides to exploit. Our opponent has built a formidable team and we expect a ferocious battle.

I will point out that the one area of the field in which there is a glaringly obvious mismatch is in goals. Courtois is a good modern goalkeeper at Premier League and Champions League level. But at this level, against the quality of attackers in this match, he doesn't measure up to the rest of the quality on display.

Goalkeepers often don't stand for much in these drafts but at this stage of the tournament, with so little to choose between these sides, this weakness will make all the difference.


Team Profiles

Michel Preud'homme
Belgiums greatest ever keeper and for me, one of the top 10 goalies of all time. The best keeper at the 1994 World Cup where he famously did for the Dutch in one of the great goalkeeping performances, the Belgian was renowned for his agility and exceptional reflexes. Known best as a superb shot stopper, he also offered calm leadership and consistency from the back.

Manfred Kaltz
One of the finest attacking right backs of all time, Kaltz was a wizard at crossing a ball from the flank, either from deep or further forward on the overlap. A superb defender with a love of getting forward and a keen eye for a goal, Kaltz will offer genuine width and threat on our right flank.

Following a humdinger of a battle between himself and Schnellinger in our first round match, I will link to my opponents post and a brief background of this great German defender: Dominoes draft: R1 - Diarm vs Raees

Karl-Heinz Schnellinger
Germanys greatest ever natural defender, Schnellinger was renowned for his pace, power, consistency and an insatiable winning mentality. World class at left back or in the centre of defence, he is known as one of the hardest and most uncompromising defenders in the history of German and Serie A football. He reached World Cup finals and semi finals but having arrived a few years earlier than the glory years of German football, never managed to secure the trophy. As a Ballon D'Or finalist and multiple member of the Fifa World XI however, his status and reputation is unquestionable among all time defenders.

Fabio Cannavaro
One of three defenders ever to win the Ballon D'Or, a World Cup winning captain and quite simply, one of the greatest centre backs ever to play the game. A colossus at the back and the rock upon which this team is built. Will add a solidity and security to this side which will allow the flair players ahead of him to flourish.

Denis Irwin
When Sir Alex Ferguson names a fullback as the first name down on his Greatest Ever XI teamsheet, you sit up and take notice. He wasn't alone either, with Roy Keane and Ryan Giggs both including the Irishman in their XI's and Alan Hansen naming him at both Right and Left Back in his team of the decade. A wonderful defender; Irwin was quick, smart and industrious and dealt effortlessly with some of the great attackers of his time. A mainstay of the Alex Ferguson revolution from the early premiership days to the great treble winning campaign, Irwin was also a menace in attack - offering width on the overlap and a cracking delivery from wide. He was also an accomplished penalty and short freekick taker.
Didier Deschamps
Tagged as "The Water Carrier" by our very own King Eric, Deschamps was that and so much more. French footballs greatest ever captain, he was a tactical genius and relentless engine at the heart of the 1998 World Cup winning side. Wherever he went; he led sides that won league titles, domestic cups, Champions Leagues, World Cups and European Cups and he paved the way for the holding midfielder who has become so important in the modern game. Here, he will provide the work rate and balance to allow the genius of Suarez, Ronaldinho, Berkamp and Batistuta to flourish.

Clarence Seedorf
A born winner. Seedorf remains the only man to have won the Champions League (4 times) with 3 different clubs. His huge engine and work rate on the right hand side of our midfield will allow him to get forward and use his strong shooting ability while also adding a robust physical presence in deeper areas. He will benefit from the attacking mindset of Denis Irwin outside him and dovetail nicely with the creative genius of Suarez beside him.

Luis Suarez Miramontes
Spains greatest ever player. "The Architect" remains the only Spanish player ever to win the Ballon D'Or. That he did so and was a finalist 3 more times in an era of players such as Di Stefano, Puskas and Kopa speaks volumes of his talent and impact on the game. Creator, technical genius and prolific goalscorer - Luis Monti will be the heartbeat of this side, providing the creative focal point through which we will tick. His graceful style and composure on the ball, perceptive and incisive passing and his explosive shooting will be key in winning this match.
Ronaldinho
World Cup winner. Ballon D'Or winner. Genius. The gifted, smiling messer of Brazil who could do things with a football anyone else could only dream of while always looking as though he was kicking an old ball around the park with his mates. His dribbling ability, eye for a brilliant but unexpected pass and goal scoring prowess will give us a ruthless advantage on the left. Ronaldinho is the unlicensed weapon we will be afforded by the industry of guys like Deschamps and Seedorf behind.

Dennis Bergkamp
Possibly my favourite ever footballer - Bergkamp was not blessed with great pace, power or other physical attributes. What God did give him however, was one of the keenest footballing brains ever to grace the game. A mind that simply saw the game 2 seconds quicker than anyone he ever played against, Bergkamp could destroy a defence before they realised they were in danger. His ability in the hole here, will allow Ronaldinho, Batistuta and Luis Suarez to flourish within a potent attack that boasts everything.

Gabriel Batistuta
The complete striker.

Diego Maradona called "Batigol" the greatest striker he ever saw play the game and it's not hard to see why. He was one of those rare players who matched incredible talent, technical ability and natural physical attributes with an incredible work rate and competitive drive to give him an almost wild and animalistic edge on the field. With brutal power, pace and anticipation, Batistuta bullied even the greatest defenders in Italy and South America before punishing them with instinctive, accurate and powerful finishing.
 
Best of luck @diarm

The only point I want to respond to from OP is this -
I will point out that the one area of the field in which there is a glaringly obvious mismatch is in goals. Courtois is a good modern goalkeeper at Premier League and Champions League level. But at this level, against the quality of attackers in this match, he doesn't measure up to the rest of the quality on display.

Goalkeepers often don't stand for much in these drafts but at this stage of the tournament, with so little to choose between these sides, this weakness will make all the difference.

I don't know how you have come to the conclusion that your goal keeper is far better than Courtois. Looking at club level at least, Courtois by has had a better career and he is still 25. He has won two best leagues in the world and was an integral part in all of them. Individually he has won all the GK awards, won both Zamora trophy at La liga and Golden glove in premier league. He has been selected in Champions league team of the season and is nominated for Ballon D'or at age of 22. Compare this to Preud'homme who spent all his career in Belgian and Portuguese league. He was a very good goalkeeper especially for his country but I would pick Courtois ahead of him every time.
 
Yeah best of luck bud!

He was a very good goalkeeper especially for his country but I would pick Courtois ahead of him every time.

No chance.

You're talking about a top ten all time goalkeeper against a somehwat overhyped but decent modern keeper.

I reckon the Courtois bubble has popped somewhat over the past couple of years. He benefitted from being part of a superb Atletico side and was earmarked as the next big thing from an early age. Then he joined a Chelsea side with another excellent defence and was part of a title winning side.

Since then, as the defences in front of him have weakened and a little more pressure has landed at his feet, I don't think he has been anything special at all.

Certainly at the highest level (major international tournaments), he had done nothing comparable to what Preud'homme did for Belgium, despite playing behind a vastly superior side.

He's an alright keeper at this level. It's just the margins in this game are so tight, alright probably won't be enough.
 
Dinho has faced Kaltz/Lucio in the first round, Gentile in the QF and Vogts now in the SF. Tough luck.
Trying to see if Dinho could somehow have been placed on the right side.

Boniek+Zambrotta against Kaltz directly works in favour of @Tuppet while Dinho vs Vogts is pretty much a stalemate.

Perhaps, something like this.

 
Last edited:
Well this match was hiding.

To spark some controversy.

@Tuppet
Claiming Courtous is above Preud'homme historically is a very bold claim.
How many points do you fancy Courtouis won Chelsea on his own those two seasons that any decent-good modern keeper couldn't have won?
Wouldn't Chelsea have just as easily won the league had Cech remained their GK? I personally don't think the Belgian made any difference to Chelsea winning either league title and if they had Cech they would have won as well. And internationally its not even close as he has not been impressive for Belgium in any tournament so far.


@diarm
Do you think you will be counter attacking most of this match?
What area of the match do you have the most edge in your opinion?
 
Well this match was hiding.

To spark some controversy.

@Tuppet
Claiming Courtous is above Preud'homme historically is a very bold claim.
How many points do you fancy Courtouis won Chelsea on his own those two seasons that any decent-good modern keeper couldn't have won?
Wouldn't Chelsea have just as easily won the league had Cech remained their GK? I personally don't think the Belgian made any difference to Chelsea winning either league title and if they had Cech they would have won as well. And internationally its not even close as he has not been impressive for Belgium in any tournament so far.
I am not sure how many points he has saved personally but for AM for example he was certainly a factor for them to win one of more improbable league wins above Real and Barca. It was clear that their win was built upon their solid defense and he was an essential part of it. For Chelsea whether the previous GK has done better or not also has no bearing on it especially when the previous GK is as good as Cech. He did his job and again in a team which won the league upon their defensive prowess he played an important part.

Also I don't know where you would put him historically, I just said he has had so far a better club career than Preud'homme and I don't think its particularly controversial. I agree that for country Preud'homme has been better, but the difference between them is in no way as Diarm mentioned "A glaringly obvious mismatch"
 
Last edited:
Dinho has faced Kaltz/Lucio in the first round, Gentile in the QF and Vogts now in the SF. Tough luck.
Trying to see if Dinho could somehow have been placed on the right side.

Boniek+Zambrotta against Kaltz directly works in favour of @Tuppet while Dinho vs Vogts is pretty much a stalemate.

The battle is rather Seedorf+Kaltz against Boniek+Zambrotta, no?
 
That Cruyff + Ronaldo partnership is tasty.
 
Also I don't know where you would put him historically, I just said he has had so far a better club career than Preud'homme and I don't think its particularly controversial. I agree that for country Preud'homme has been better, but the difference is in not way as Diarm mentioned "A glaringly obvious mismatch"

I do think that's controversial because you are basing it off of team victories. It is an unfair comparison when Courtois has played for far richer and better teams for his era. Its a bit like taking Sergio Ramos career on paper and claiming he had a better a club career than Bobby Moore. Sure its true in one sense but that sense is a bit misleading.

To me Preud'homme's international resume is several tiers above Courtois and it is a bit much to claim Courtois is anything but a tier below imo. The current Belgian has a lot to prove before he can say he is on the greatest Belgian keepers level.
 
You're talking about a top ten all time goalkeeper against a somehwat overhyped but decent modern keeper.
He isn't. In no particular order: Buffon, Zoff, Kahn, Maier, Neuer, Schmeichel, Beara, Yashin, Dasaev, Zamora... and I'm just getting started.
 
I do think that's controversial because you are basing it off of team victories. It is an unfair comparison when Courtois has played for far richer and better teams for his era. Its a bit like taking Sergio Ramos career on paper and claiming he had a better a club career than Bobby Moore. Sure its true in one sense but that sense is a bit misleading.

To me Preud'homme's international resume is several tiers above Courtois and it is a bit much to claim Courtois is anything but a tier below imo. The current Belgian has a lot to prove before he can say he is on the greatest Belgian keepers level.
Don't want to drag it out too much but I honestly disagree with you on this point. I think Courtois particularly in AM has played a very important part in a league victory over two fantastic club sides. He is constantly winning leagues and is usually play in defensive systems where he is called upon quite a few times and does his duty. I am not really sure what can he do at club level to prove he is better, get transferred in Belgian league and win that ? I don't think I am overestimating Courtois career and he is certainly not a top 20/30 keeper, I am just saying neither is Preud'homme. If Diarm had a Yashin or Buffon I would have understood the glaring mismatch thing, but with Preud'homme its not in my opinion.
 
He isn't. In no particular order: Buffon, Zoff, Kahn, Maier, Neuer, Schmeichel, Beara, Yashin, Dasaev, Zamora... and I'm just getting started.

Yeah but I don't think Courtois even makes top 10 in the Premier League era

Schmeichel, Seaman, Van de Sar, Cech, Lehmann, Southall, Nigel Martyn, Alan Kelly, De Gea, Tim Howard, Tim Flowers...
 
He isn't. In no particular order: Buffon, Zoff, Kahn, Maier, Neuer, Schmeichel, Beara, Yashin, Dasaev, Zamora... and I'm just getting started.

I can add another 10 names as well to make it 20. But he's better than Courtois so diarm has a point there.

That Cruyff + Ronaldo partnership is tasty.
The decider for me in the game. Ronaldo vs Cannavaro and Cryuff vs Deschamps are battles I can see Tuppet having an upper hand, whilst Dinho comes against Vogts and Batistuta against Maldini - being diarms best players in attack.
 
Surely not tho...


Its certainly debatable but their resumes are all relatively on par. Thing with Courtois for me is internationally he has been very unimpressive. Admittedly he wasn't the only current Belgian to be unimpressive in the last two tournaments but if Courtois doesn't have a very strong tournament this coming WC then I think that is just a big subtraction from his historical rating. At least for me since I rate international perhaps higher than some fans. And the weakness so far is his mentality. He just isn't a keeper I would ever select to man the nets for my sides in an important match. He just isn't proven enough there.
I'd trust Howard in goal in a SF behind GOATS before I'd trust current Courtois. But we can revisit in August. The young lad might prove me wrong about him ;)
 
Its certainly debatable but their resumes are all relatively on par. Thing with Courtois for me is internationally he has been very unimpressive. Admittedly he wasn't the only current Belgian to be unimpressive in the last two tournaments but if Courtois doesn't have a very strong tournament this coming WC then I think that is just a big subtraction from his historical rating. At least for me since I rate international perhaps higher than some fans. And the weakness so far is his mentality. He just isn't a keeper I would ever select to man the nets for my sides in an important match. He just isn't proven enough there.
I'd trust Howard in goal in a SF behind GOATS before I'd trust current Courtois. But we can revisit in August. The young lad might prove me wrong about him ;)
Well to be fair Martyn and Flowers couldn't break into the English team either and the other two doesn't have stellar international careers.

Courtois easily comes on top due to making it at the highest level - he was great at Atletico and pretty solid for Chelsea, winning 2 PL's on the way. We've saw Howard at United and the others on the list also doesn't had to handle the pressure at being in a team fighting for the title.

I'd have Pepe Reina above them as well.
 
Well to be fair Martyn and Flowers couldn't break into the English team either and the other two doesn't have stellar international careers.

Courtois easily comes on top due to making it at the highest level - he was great at Atletico and pretty solid for Chelsea, winning 2 PL's on the way. We've saw Howard at United and the others on the list also doesn't had to handle the pressure at being in a team fighting for the title.

I'd have Pepe Reina above them as well.

That's a fair argument and I don't necessarily think Courtois will end up at only Tim Flowers level but to me he is only at that level atm.

I forgot about Reina but I''d agree he goes in the top 10. I don't agree that Courtois is proven at the highest level though. His CL is okay with Atletico but again I can't remember a single CL knockout match in that run where he was crucial and he is not proven at the highest NT levels (btw I still rate WC performances over CL due to them being more rare which I know is not common today among younger fans). Let's see this summer how he does for underperforming Belgium.
 
I agree with onenil.

Courtois isn't someone I'd trust to call upon in a big game where my team has sustain against a barrage of shots from quality players. He's fine when his defense is doing the job and he has to make a save once in a while.
 
I agree with onenil.

Courtois isn't someone I'd trust to call upon in a big game where my team has sustain against a barrage of shots from quality players. He's fine when his defense is doing the job and he has to make a save once in a while.

Thought he was immense against Barca in 13/14 and in the semis against Chelsea. Especially against Barca he sustained quite number of shots in both legs.

That's a fair argument and I don't necessarily think Courtois will end up at only Tim Flowers level but to me he is only at that level atm.

I forgot about Reina but I''d agree he goes in the top 10. I don't agree that Courtois is proven at the highest level though. His CL is okay with Atletico but again I can't remember a single CL knockout match in that run where he was crucial and he is not proven at the highest NT levels (btw I still rate WC performances over CL due to them being more rare which I know is not common today among younger fans). Let's see this summer how he does for underperforming Belgium.

Yeah I'm with you on WC level but the whole Belgium team underperformed and should share the fault. He didn't excel true and he's still young so he'll no doubt improve there as well.
 
He isn't. In no particular order: Buffon, Zoff, Kahn, Maier, Neuer, Schmeichel, Beara, Yashin, Dasaev, Zamora... and I'm just getting started.
Yeah, was reading thread and thought same thing. Surprised goalies had so much debate early on given seem to be ignored in lots of draft matchups.

I agree that I'd put him over Courtois but not top.10.... also Casillas, Banks, VdS, Zubizarretta, Shilton just off the top of my head (before you even get to the debatable ones like Seaman, Southall, etc).
 
Although Courtois isn't as good as his counterpart he's hardly a liability and will get the job done.
 
I do remember some managers saying they have a better GK
 
But actually you are right. Can't remember GK's being discussed before that draft even rarely get mentioned in the writeups.

It's always good to see some "new faces" in those debates.

New faces are great, shame there's no avatars.

Didn't someone try and pull a fast one with the non-Gianluigi version of Buffon or am I creating a new version of Baresigate?
 
Tuppet's left flank is a clear standout in this game. Seedorf will be required to do lots of work in order to support Kaltz and not get his team's right flank overloaded. Cruyff vs. Deschamps in a 1-on-1 without the requisite midfield support is a real weak point. Davids is going to cause lots of trouble for diarm's side, and that'll force Luisito into a more defensive, reserved role instead of being the more decisive player on the ball.
 
The battle is rather Seedorf+Kaltz against Boniek+Zambrotta, no?

Technically yes, but I can't see Kaltz getting too much room to attack. He should have good support defensively from Seedorf who himself would also be engaged in the central midfield battle too.
Limiting Kaltz not going forward breaks the setup IMO. Which is why felt Ronaldinho should be on the other side.
Ronaldinho+Seedorf+Kaltz on the same side of the pitch would have been awesome and perfectly balanced in both attack and defense.
 
Technically yes, but I can't see Kaltz getting too much room to attack. He should have good support defensively from Seedorf who himself would also be engaged in the central midfield battle too.
Limiting Kaltz not going forward breaks the setup IMO. Which is why felt Ronaldinho should be on the other side.
Ronaldinho+Seedorf+Kaltz on the same side of the pitch would have been awesome and perfectly balanced in both attack and defense.

I think his team is very well-balanced:

- Ronaldinho on the left flank
- Luis Suarez Miramontes up central midfield
- Deschamps down central midfield
- Bergkamp to support the central midfield

Say Roberto Carlos = Kaltz in terms of offensive contribution

8910791.jpg


If you want a FB to own his whole flank, then Kaltz is your man

 
I think his team is very well-balanced:

- Ronaldinho on the left flank
- Luis Suarez Miramontes up central midfield
- Deschamps down central midfield
- Bergkamp to support the central midfield

Say Roberto Carlos = Kaltz in terms of offensive contribution

8910791.jpg


If you want a FB to own his whole flank, then Kaltz is your man



'Balanced' is very subjective and needs more context.
Is it balanced in general? Obviously, why else would he reach the SF in a draft which quite frankly has had the most number of good looking balanced teams in the last 3 drafts.
Is it balanced against this particular opposition and their strengths and weaknesses? No. Far from it. His tactics play right into Tuppet's hands.
 
'Balanced' is very subjective and needs more context.
Is it balanced in general? Obviously, why else would he reach the SF in a draft which quite frankly has had the most number of good looking balanced teams in the last 3 drafts.
Is it balanced against this particular opposition and their strengths and weaknesses? No. Far from it. His tactics play right into Tuppet's hands.

An opinion is always subjective and I don't know why 'balanced' is a 'very subjective' term:-)

Each team has its pros and cons

Is Kaltz a complete full-back top offensively, good defensively with a high work-rate? I think so
Is Seedorf a clever player tactically? I think so if I look at his track record: AJAX, Real, Milan...

Boniek isn't a pure left-winger but he's unpredictable and would combine well with Johan.
I picked Zambrotta in some drafts: top player

Diarm defending if Zambrotta/Boniek is in action




I have the feeling I am the assistant of @diarm: don't take into account my vote!