Dominoes draft: R1 - Diarm vs Raees

Who would win in the following draft game with all players at their peak?

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  • Poll closed .

Tuppet

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Team Diarm
Team-Diarm-formation-tactics.png


VS

Team Raees
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TACTICS

Diarm​
Players

Michel Preud'homme
Belgiums greatest ever keeper and for me, one of the top 10 goalies of all time. The best keeper at the 1994 World Cup where he famously did for the Dutch in one of the great goalkeeping performances, the Belgian was renowned for his agility and exceptional reflexes. Known best as a superb shot stopper, he also offered calm leadership and consistency from the back.

Denis Irwin
When Sir Alex Ferguson names a fullback as the first name down on his Greatest Ever XI teamsheet, you sit up and take notice. He wasn't alone either, with Roy Keane and Ryan Giggs both including the Irishman in their XI's and Alan Hansen naming him at both Right and Left Back in his team of the decade. A wonderful defender; Irwin was quick, smart and industrious and dealt effortlessly with some of the great attackers of his time. A mainstay of the Alex Ferguson revolution from the early premiership days to the great treble winning campaign, Irwin was also a menace in attack - offering width on the overlap and a cracking delivery from wide. He was also an accomplished penalty and short freekick taker.

Karl-Heinz Schnellinger
Germanys greatest ever natural defender, Schnellinger was renowned for his pace, power, consistency and an insatiable winning mentality. World class at left back or in the centre of defence, he is known as one of the hardest and most uncompromising defenders in the history of German and Serie A football. He reached World Cup finals and semi finals but having arrived a few years earlier than the glory years of German football, never managed to secure the trophy. As a Ballon D'Or finalist and multiple member of the Fifa World XI however, his status and reputation is unquestionable among all time defenders.

Klaus Augenthaler
They called him "The Eye", as his ability to see and read a game from the back allowed him to defend against even the greatest attacks and attackers with a seemingly effortless style. The most successful individual in Bundesliga history, Augenthaler captained Bayern Munich during one of their greatest ever periods and was at the heart of the German World Cup winning side of 1990. Aside from being one of Germanys finest ever defenders, Klaus was a renowned goal scorer. With a rocket of a right foot, free kicks and screamers from outside the box were his speciality but he was also adept at arriving late to the box and powering headers past the keeper. With more than 50 career goals for Bayern Munich, he will provide yet another headache from set pieces for a defence already occupied by our more illustrious attackers.

Mats Hummels
Another German World Cup winning centre back, Hummels also uses his reading of the game and footballing intelligence to make defending look easy. Hard as nails and strong in the air, the German has been a constant rock at the back of successful Dortmund, Munich and German sides so far in his career. Along with Augenthaler, his quality and composure on the ball and his excellent range of passing will allow us to build from the back.

Didier Deschamps
Tagged as "The Water Carrier" by our very own King Eric, Deschamps was that and so much more. French footballs greatest ever captain, he was a tactical genius and relentless engine at the heart of the 1998 World Cup winning side. Wherever he went; he led sides that won league titles, domestic cups, Champions Leagues, World Cups and European Cups and he paved the way for the holding midfielder who has become so important in the modern game. Here, he will provide the work rate and balance to allow the genius of Suarez, Ronaldinho, Berkamp and Batistuta to flourish.

Clarence Seedorf
A born winner. Seedorf remains the only man to have won the Champions League (4 times) with 3 different clubs. His huge engine and work rate on the right hand side of our midfield will allow him to get forward and use his strong shooting ability while also adding a robust physical presence in deeper areas. He will benefit from the attacking mindset of Denis Irwin outside him and dovetail nicely with the creative genius of Suarez beside him.

Luis Suarez Miramontes
Spains greatest ever player. "The Architect" remains the only Spanish player ever to win the Ballon D'Or. That he did so and was a finalist 3 more times in an era of players such as Di Stefano, Puskas and Kopa speaks volumes of his talent and impact on the game. Creator, technical genius and prolific goalscorer - Luis Suarez will be the heartbeat of this side, providing the creative focal point through which we will tick. His graceful style and composure on the ball, perceptive and incisive passing and his explosive shooting will be key in winning this match.

Ronaldinho
World Cup winner. Ballon D'Or winner. Genius. The gifted, smiling messer of Brazil who could do things with a football anyone else could only dream of while always looking as though he was kicking an old ball around the park with his mates. His dribbling ability, eye for a brilliant but unexpected pass and goal scoring prowess will give us a ruthless advantage on the left. Ronaldinho is the unlicensed weapon we will be afforded by the industry of guys like Deschamps and Seedorf behind.

Dennis Bergkamp
Possibly my favourite ever footballer - Bergkamp was not blessed with great pace, power or other physical attributes. What God did give him however, was one of the keenest footballing brains ever to grace the game. A mind that simply saw the game 2 seconds quicker than anyone he ever played against, Bergkamp could destroy a defence before they realised they were in danger. His ability in the hole here, will allow Ronaldinho, Batistuta and Luis Suarez to flourish within a potent attack that boasts everything.

Gabriel Batistuta
The complete striker.

Diego Maradona called "Batigol" the greatest striker he ever saw play the game and it's not hard to see why. He was one of those rare players who matched incredible talent, technical ability and natural physical attributes with an incredible work rate and competitive drive to give him an almost wild and animalistic edge on the field. With brutal power, pace and anticipation, Batistuta bullied even the greatest defenders in Italy and South America before punishing them with instinctive, accurate and powerful finishing.

Tactics

I'll keep this simple because my lineup full of World Cup winners, Ballon D'Or winners, great captains and general all time legends speaks for itself.

We will line up in a somewhat asymmetrical 433, with Deschamps holding the midfield from deep, Seedorf providing energy and industry on the right hand side of the midfield and Luis Suarez Miramontes providing creativity, tenacity, style and cutting edge on the left of centre.

We will build from the back through the vision and passing ability of Augenthaler and Hummels, with Irwin and Schnellinger providing width on the overlap while remaining rock steady and uncompromising in defence.

Our defence and midfield are designed to protect behind, and provide support and creativity for, an attack which boasts everything. Flair, trickery, dribbling and finesse from the left through Ronaldinho. Guile, intelligence, incisiveness and creativity in the hole from Bergkamp and then power, pace, presence and explosive finishing from the ultimate number 9 up top in Batistuta.

Our opponent has built a fine side and we anticipate a relentless and engaging game but ultimately, I feel we will edge the midfield battle and then the creative brilliance of Luis Suarez and Bergkamp will allow our superior attack to flourish against any defence.

There will be goals in this game and we will score more of them.


Raees​
STRATEGICAL OUTLINE

FORMATION: 3-4-1-2 (balanced)
KEY TACTICS:
  • Rampaging Zebec has the freedom of the left flank, will be expected to bomb up and down all day long, wreaking havoc in the final third and help tighten things at the back
  • Konservative Kaltz will be more mindful of his defensive duties, because of the possibility that Ronaldinho will be stationed down his flank and therefore he'll have to pick and choose his moments to provide width down the right without leaving himself exposed.
  • Rio defensive sweeper ala Picci whilst Cannavaro and Lucio, two of the finest stoppers of the modern era will be tasked with being aggressive and stopping the likes of Ronaldinho, Batigol and L. Suarez from turning and facing the goal.
  • Sammer able to roam because of Mascherano which is a massive plus. In previous attempts to play Sammer in midfield, he was paired up with adventerous midfielders which made him vulnerable against sides with GOAT 10s because people argued he'd have to do a man-marking job and can't bomb forward. Here he definitely can play as a midfield libero with loads of defensive security around him.
  • Zidane surrounded by runners will be totally in his element here. Will be very difficult to keep tabs on him because he has frighteningly attacking wing backs stretching the play for him, the volcanic Stoichkov working away down either side of Fontaine, and speaking of his compatriot.. one of the deadliest marksmen of all time, with sensational movement, great linkup play and pace to burn.
ISSUES TO EXPLOIT
  • Lack of natural tactical cohesion in Diarm's side - Not sure how it all fits together, it seems like a very talented bunch of players but I would argue it is a said with two left backs, quite a range of number 10s and two sweepers.
  • Chemistry issues between Ronaldinho/Batistuta - don't get me wrong, two tremendous players but I could see them frustrating each other.. Ronnie needs a more silky, striker up top in a more modern vein to bring him into the game and quick link up play in the Brazillian/Barca style, whereas Batigol is more old school get it to my feet, feed me and let me score. I still think they'd be so exciting to watch but not an ideal partnership IMO.
  • Does he have enough in defensive midfield to keep Zidane quiet? Can Augenthaler and Hummels, keep livewires like Fontaine and Stoichkov quiet? I think with the space created from our wing backs, it will be a nightmare keeping tabs on such a fluid trio of high-level killers and I would argue his defensive set up won't be strong enough to do so.
 
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  • Raees said:
    [*]Lack of natural tactical cohesion in Diarm's side - Not sure how it all fits together, it seems like a very talented bunch of players but I would argue it is a said with two left backs, quite a range of number 10s and two sweepers.
    [*]Chemistry issues between Ronaldinho/Batistuta - don't get me wrong, two tremendous players but I could see them frustrating each other.. Ronnie needs a more silky, striker up top in a more modern vein to bring him into the game and quick link up play in the Brazillian/Barca style, whereas Batigol is more old school get it to my feet, feed me and let me score. I still think they'd be so exciting to watch but not an ideal partnership IMO.
    [*]Does he have enough in defensive midfield to keep Zidane quiet? Can Augenthaler and Hummels, keep livewires like Fontaine and Stoichkov quiet? I think with the space created from our wing backs, it will be a nightmare keeping tabs on such a fluid trio of high-level killers and I would argue his defensive set up won't be strong enough to do so.
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I'll just nip these comments in the bud early on lest anyone read them and take them in any way seriously.

I have one left back in Schnellinger and a right back in Denis Irwin. Irwin is renowned for being truly two footed and was moved to left back for United simply for the good of the team and because he was equally adept on either side. His performances for club and country on the right leave no doubt as to his pedigree here.

Bergkamp is the number 10 and has the role entirely to himself. Ronaldinho was always a better player from wide positions - either left or right and Luis Suarez was an architect in the Xavi mould (but better) from a much deeper position. Both he and Seedorf will advance at times and look to use their shooting prowess but as my lineup and tactics show, Bergkamp is the creator between the lines.

Pointing to both players ability on the ball and labelling them sweepers is lazy. Both can perform that role but both, and Augenthaler in particular, were so much more. Klaus was a hard as nails German defender and any side who think they are coming up against two ball players they can bully will be in for a rude awakening here. Factor in the defensive support of Irwin, Schnellinger and Deschamps and we will have an excellent setup to counter our opponents attack.

The idea that Ronaldinho and Batigol will frustrate each other is ridiculous. The unpredictability of the Brazilian from his wider position will marry perfectly with the directness and ruthlessness of the Argentine through the middle. Ronny will find space in a defence terrorised by the force of nature that is Batistuta and as well as his own goal threat, will routinely find the number 9 with disguised passes and chipped crosses or balls lifted over the top.

I can't think of many defensive midfielders better equipped to counter Zidane. He will match him for game reading and intelligence while his work rate and tenacity will ensure the great Zizou never has a seconds space to engage his library of skills and tricks. Zidane will be a threat in every game he ever plays, but in Deschamps we have a defensive midfielder as equipped as any to counter him.
 
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Tuppet said:
Creator, technical genius and prolific goalscorer - Luis Monti will be the heartbeat of this side, providing the creative focal point through which we will tick.
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What?
 
Tending towards Raees based on first look as he looks more balanced with good assignments and roles for every player.

Diarm's team has a lot that doesn't meet the eye at once. Seedorf at RM would be crucial if this is to work. Luis Suarez is a great fit for that midfield as well along with Deschamps.

One of those games which I would vote based on discussions rather than lineups as it depends a lot on how they are setup tactically to outmaneuver the other.
 
Few profile posts on some of the more unknown names..

Branko Zebec

He was considered to be world class in 4 separate positions, Sweeper/Left Back, Left Midfield and Striker. Blessed with pace (he could run 100m in less than 11s in football boots), agility, aerial ability and a wonderful ability to read the game - there is no wonder that he is often included in the greatest of the 50-60's era teams and rated the best centre half of that era. Famous for ruthlessly yet skilfully man-marking Raymond Kopa

Zebec was a bloody good defender – in the “pure” sense too, his extreme speed and aerial ability (he was pretty tall too, AFAIK) combined with his game reading ability made sure of that

Beside the fact he was very, very fast, he was also very strong in duels and practically unstoppable on the left side. Zebec wasn't too sophisticated technical player, but he controlled ball very well with his left leg. In the game he was very brave and rational as well. Never made a move too much, used dribble only when it's necessary. For him, simplicity was a road to perfection (he achieved perfection in many, many games). Zebec really believed in his abilities on the court and he always gave his best in each and every game.

He occasionally played as a little bit defensive CF (very successfully). Against France he played as defensive CF, who had assignment to go back to defense, and guard Raymond Kopa (Real Madrid player at the time). He did that so successfully, that it seemed that Kopa didn't played at all. On the same game he also played very good in the attack, and journalists gave him 10, for his perfect game.

After all that, he was transformed into a CB (but he also continued to play as winger/attacker, wing half and full-back) and he was very good on that position. During the one of the most important games for the national team (qualifications for World Cup 1958), in which Yugoslavia played against Romania he played as CB. Many claim that this was his best game for national team at that position. Every high ball was his (very superior in the air), he won every 1 on 1 play against opposite attacker, also during the game he was in every place in the defense. In one word: Perfection! One of the coaches came to him after the game, grab his shoulder and said: "Are you a man or are you a beast? I've never seen anybody playing the whole 90 minutes so perfect and without any mistake!"

After his first game for national team in CB position (a few games before the one I mentioned before), many foreign journalists and football experts wrote that he's one of the greatest discoveries in CB and libero position (CWP) and that he played in those positions even better than on his original position. Many journalists, football experts, coaches and players, from 1950s, agree that Zebec was the best center-half during that era. Some of them even said, that he should be among Best 11 squad of all times.
 




MANFRED KALTZ

Horst Hrubesch could be a minimalist with words. "Manni banana cross, me head - goal", he once said of his hugely-respected and long-serving team-mate Manfred ‘Manni’ Kaltz, considered by many to be the inventor of the inch-perfect, cross from the flanks.

Kaltz scored 76 goals in a total of 581 Bundesliga appearances, all of them for famous north German outfit Hamburg, with whom he won the European Cup in 1983, the domestic league title three times, and the German cup twice. For almost two decades, ‘Mr. Bundesliga’ was a fixture in defence for one of the league's founder members.

Kaltz also scored nine times in earning 69 Germany caps, and was a member of the 1980 UEFA European Championship winning side. He also played at the FIFA World Cup™ finals in 1978 and 1982.

Indelible memories
"There were so many unforgettable times. The moment of winning is always fantastic, although the flip side is that the moment of defeat is always horrendous," Kaltz told FIFA.com.

One of the stalwart’s most painful moments came at the end of the 3-1 defeat to Italy in the 1982 FIFA World Cup Final. "But we simply had nothing more to give. We were still weary after the dramatic semi-final against France, when we went 3-1 behind but ended up winning on penalties. We were totally exhausted afterwards. We’d run out of strength by the time we met Italy. Obviously, we were totally devastated at the final whistle. Basically, second place is worth nothing."

The Ludwigshafen-born pro made his Bundesliga debut for Hamburg in 1971, and wore the club’s distinctive jersey without a break until 1989. After 18 seasons in the north of Germany, he spent a short period in France with Girondins Bordeaux and Mulhouse, before returning to his adopted and spiritual home in Hamburg.

Kaltz was long regarded as one of the great penalty-takers of his generation. However, he set Bundesliga records in other areas too. His 291 league wins rates second only to Oliver Kahn, and he is also second in terms of total appearances behind Karl-Heinz Koerbel on 602. His six own-goals stand as another, somewhat less desirable, German record.

The man with the ability to ‘bend it like a banana’ enjoyed a textbook career for his country. He represented Germany at every youth level before a first call-up to the senior team at the age of 22 in 1975. He scored nine times in 68 further appearances, and captained the three-time FIFA World Cup winners on six occasions.

Nowadays
‘Mr. Bundesliga’ was often described as cool, calculating and level-headed as a player – a hard-running, attack-minded right-back with a nose for goal. Would he still like to get out there and play when he goes to matches these days? "No, I don’t feel the urge to play again when I watch football. I’m simply enjoying my life, although I’ll watch a game on TV in the evening if it’s decent."

Kaltz, who worked briefly as Felix Magath’s assistant coach in the 1990s, remains actively involved in the game via the Manfred Kaltz Football Academy. "Our slogan is ‘Train like a pro’. I’m supported by former greats such as Michael Rummenigge, Matthias Herget and Bernd Foerster." Kaltz also sits on the board of trustees of the Stiftung Jugendfussball(Youth Football Foundation), which aims to imbue kids and youths with a passion for the game.
 
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JUST FONTAINE





Records are made to be broken, especially that deliciously snappable Milli Vanilli vinyl, but with some you might as well save your energy. There is surely no storm perfect enough for Just Fontaine's record of 13 goals in a World Cup, set withFrance in 1958, to be beaten. In only one of the last nine tournaments has a player scored even half as many, when Ronaldo managed eight in 2002.

Fontaine was a born finisher, smooth and strikingly two-footed. There are similarities with the greatest goalscorer of them all, Gerd Müller: both were squat men with formidable strength, particularly in their tree-trunk thighs, and both had a supernatural awareness and serenity in their patch of land, the 18-yard box.

Like a few of France's greatest players, Fontaine wasn't born in France. He was born of a Spanish mother in Marrakech, then part of French Morocco, and started his club career with USM Casablanca. Fontaine later moved to Nice and then Reims, as a replacement for the Madrid-bound genius Raymond Kopa. It was with Kopa, one of the great No10s, that he would have such an impact in Sweden in 1958. Fontaine went into the tournament at his peak: he was 24 years old, relatively fresh because of an unplanned winter break for a knee operation, and had just hit 34 goals in 26 league games to help Reims to the double.


Yet his part in the tournament was not set in stone. Fontaine had played only five times in as many years for France before the tournament; after scoring a hat-trick on his international debut, in a World Cup qualifier, he was not picked again for three years. (This is nowhere near as daft as it sounds: Fontaine was one of 11 debutants in a dead rubber 8-0 win against Luxembourg, who were such weak opponents that he would probably have needed to score all eight to catch the eye.)

He continued to put goals on the board for Reims, and was eventually recalled. The France national selector Paul Nicolas privately told both Fontaine and René Bliard that they would be the man to play ahead of Kopa and the excellent Roger Piantoni. Fate sorted out a potentially tricky situation: Bliard went home after he was injured in a warm-up match.

Fontaine feasted on a steady stream of gorgeous passes from Kopa – man had not discovered the sweeper in those days – and their partnership, though short-lived at international level, was legendary. Fontaine scored in all six matches, starting with a hat-trick in an unexpected 7-3 demolition of a decent Paraguay side who led 3-2 at one stage. Two more followed in a 3-2 defeat to Yugoslavia before he scored one and made one (for Kopa, a rare example of the fluffer being fluffed) in the 2-1 win over Scotland that put France into the quarter-finals.

There they met Northern Ireland, who were dismissed 4-0. Fontaine scored two, the second a supreme goalscorer's goal. France's performance was so majestic that the Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet said: "You have to go back a very long way in history to find any trace of a team that has played as elegantly in Sweden as the French."

In the semi-finals they met the favourites Brazil, who had Pelé, Garrincha, Nílton Santos, Didi, Vavá, Mario Zagallo and the rest. Vavá scored in the second minute, but seven minutes later Fontaine equalised classily after a beautiful buildup. "One has never seen a finer goal," wrote the man from the Guardian. It remained 1-1 until the 36th minute, when Vavá broke the leg of the France captain, Robert Jonquet. There were no substitutes in those days, so Jonquet spent the rest of the game wincing on the wing, and Brazil trounced the 10 men 5-2.

It meant that, to beat Sandor Kocsis's record of 11 goals in a World Cup, set with Hungary in 1954, Fontaine needed to score three in the third-place play-off against West Germany. He hit four in a 6-3 win. The game was competitive only in name – "Fontaine only had to stay on his feet to score goals," wrote Cris Freddi ishis definitive history of the World Cup – but even then, Fontaine had scored nine in the first five games, in a tournament where no other player hit more than six. "These were easy pickings," adds Freddi, "but his credentials as a goalscorer stand up to any scrutiny."

His overall total could have been more than 13. He hit the bar twice against Scotland and let Kopa take a penalty against West Germany, even though at that stage he only had 10 goals for the tournament.

Fontaine's scoring feats are even more improbable in view of the fact that he was not even wearing his own boots: he had to borrow a pair from a team-mate (not, as some of you familiar with tales of magic boots might suspect, Jimmy "Dead Shot" Keen, but Stéphane Bruey).

Nor did he receive a Golden Boot at the end of the tournament: in those days there was no formal presentation, and he had to make do with an air rifle from a local newspaper. Forty years later he received a golden boot from Gary Lineker as part of a television programme tracing the history of the award.

Fontaine broke his leg twice in 1960 and, as a consequence, played his last international at the age of 27, finishing with the computer-game record of 30 goals in 21 appearances. His strike rate of 1.43 goals per game is the highest of anybody with 30 international goals. In 10 competitive internationals he scored 21 times.

He went on to manage France, Luchon, Paris Saint-Germain, Toulouse and Morocco, with mixed success. He also inspired an indie band who "don't really do happy!". Now, at the age of 78, he lives in Toulouse, owns two Lacoste shops and predicts results for the French pools. "I spend my days playing belote [a French card game]," he says. "Other than that I watch the African Nations Cup, the Premier League, the Bundesliga, Serie A, La Liga ..."

Fontaine has regularly dismissed the idea that goals were a cheaper currency in his day. "No, it wasn't easier to score in 1958," he said, possibly 0.00000000004 seconds after watching a video of David Luiz. "The state of the ball, the length of the trip over and the amateurism of the backroom staff made everything much more complicated than today. I had somebody else's boots as well. And the last great World Cup scorer, Ronaldo, played against teams such as China and Costa Rica. Above all else, referees protect strikers much more than they did in my day. So let me repeat it: 13 goals is an enormous total. Beating my record? I don't think it can ever be done."
 
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Going with Raees on the back of that his defence seems to fit quite well with diarm attack, although I'd prefer Cannavaro coping up with Ronnie in the inside left channel instead of Lucio.

Apart from that his superior CB's would IMO handle better Batigol, Bergkamp, whilst Stoichkov and Fontaine would do some damage against Augenthaler and Hummels.

Slim margin tho, diarm has build a quality side, and I really like that midfield trio.

My only issue with his side is probably Bergkamp - with Luisito already there and Dinho on the left, I'd prefer a probing second striker with a great movement who can capitalize all the chances created by Dinho and Luisito.
 
diarm said:
I'll just nip these comments in the bud early on lest anyone read them and take them in any way seriously.

I have one left back in Schnellinger and a right back in Denis Irwin. Irwin is renowned for being truly two footed and was moved to left back for United simply for the good of the team and because he was equally adept on either side. His performances for club and country on the right leave no doubt as to his pedigree here.

Bergkamp is the number 10 and has the role entirely to himself. Ronaldinho was always a better player from wide positions - either left or right and Luis Suarez was an architect in the Xavi mould (but better) from a much deeper position. Both he and Seedorf will advance at times and look to use their shooting prowess but as my lineup and tactics show, Bergkamp is the creator between the lines.

Pointing to both players ability on the ball and labelling them sweepers is lazy. Both can perform that role but both, and Augenthaler in particular, were so much more. Klaus was a hard as nails German defender and any side who think they are coming up against two ball players they can bully will be in for a rude awakening here. Factor in the defensive support of Irwin, Schnellinger and Deschamps and we will have an excellent setup to counter our opponents attack.

The idea that Ronaldinho and Batigol will frustrate each other is ridiculous. The unpredictability of the Brazilian from his wider position will marry perfectly with the directness and ruthlessness of the Argentine through the middle. Ronny will find space in a defence terrorised by the force of nature that is Batistuta and as well as his own goal threat, will routinely find the number 9 with disguised passes and chipped crosses or balls lifted over the top.

I can't think of many defensive midfielders better equipped to counter Zidane. He will match him for game reading and intelligence while his work rate and tenacity will ensure the great Zizou never has a seconds space to engage his library of skills and tricks. Zidane will be a threat in every game he ever plays, but in Deschamps we have a defensive midfielder as equipped as any to counter him.
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Your right side for me is an issue because if it was Seedorf flanked by a proper attacking right back, that would compensate for the lack of natural width. Irwin was more a balanced full back who whilst he was gifted in the final third, he wasn't the type to bomb forward with the ball as a carrier and there is a lack of thrust down that side IMO.

The ball-playing ability of your defenders is neither here nor there.. as to the criticism. I think in any world, you'd want two defenders who are comfortable with the ball at their feet.. its defensively where I was describing them both as sweepers.. there is a lack of a stopper who can be aggressive and stop the players from getting on the half turn. Here you have two defenders who like to sit off. Plus I think Hummels is not strong enough defensively to be facing what is predominantly a central threat in the likes of Fontaine, Stoichkov.. that is a mismatch for me.

Also Stoichkov v Irwin, in 1994 .. Stoichkov ran riot against United, with him interchanging between both flanks and generally wreaking havoc. Not saying Irwin himself is out of his league here, but as good as Irwin was.. he wasn't an elite tier full back, let alone a wing-back which is what you want him to be here.

Final point, Deschamps v Zidane. I find it hard to imagine most GOAT DM's being able to stop Zizou when is in full flow and in a team which fits him to a tee.. but Deschamps without a Davids, Viera, Petit. . especially if Seedorf is out wide sometimes providing width, I can't see how he alone is going to keep tabs on Zidane in this form...

 
Enigma_87 said:
Going with Raees on the back of that his defence seems to fit quite well with diarm attack, although I'd prefer Cannavaro coping up with Ronnie in the inside left channel instead of Lucio.

Apart from that his superior CB's would IMO handle better Batigol, Bergkamp, whilst Stoichkov and Fontaine would do some damage against Augenthaler and Hummels.

Slim margin tho, diarm has build a quality side, and I really like that midfield trio.

My only issue with his side is probably Bergkamp - with Luisito already there and Dinho on the left, I'd prefer a probing second striker with a great movement who can capitalize all the chances created by Dinho and Luisito.
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Although I'd argue that nobody ever really handled Batistuta, I can appreciate your points. There is no doubt Raees has built a superb defence.

It's important that Augenthaler and Hummels don't get underrated too much by comparison. They are both superb defenders and with our opponent employing wing backs as opposed to out and out wide attackers, they will be able supported by world class fullbacks.

I also honestly believe Bergkmp would thrive in such a roll. The gaps he would find in a defence occupied with Batistuta and Ronaldinho would leave him space to cut any back 3 to pieces.

Aside from the fact I think I have more goals in my team with that front 3, Suarez, Seedorf, Augenthaler and Irwin - don't forget that after 70 minutes of being battered by Batigol, hoodwinked by Ronny and outthought by Bergkamp, in Aguero I can spring exactly that probing striker you spoke of from the bench to exploit a tiring defence.
 
Don't agree with the too many 10s/left-backs comment. The balance looks okay there, maybe a bit off in the centre of defence granted.
Enigma_87 said:
My only issue with his side is probably Bergkamp - with Luisito already there and Dinho on the left, I'd prefer a probing second striker with a great movement who can capitalize all the chances created by Dinho and Luisito.
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Like Pele? Seedorf playing as an RCM balancing Ronnie in a lopsided 4231 :drool:
 
Gio said:
Don't agree with the too many 10s/left-backs comment. The balance looks okay there, maybe a bit off in the centre of defence granted.

Like Pele? Seedorf playing as an RCM balancing Ronnie in a lopsided 4231 :drool:
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Pele would've slotted right in :)

Or it could be a complete forward like Eusebio in that inside right, feeding off Batistuta.

diarm said:
Although I'd argue that nobody ever really handled Batistuta, I can appreciate your points. There is no doubt Raees has built a superb defence.

It's important that Augenthaler and Hummels don't get underrated too much by comparison. They are both superb defenders and with our opponent employing wing backs as opposed to out and out wide attackers, they will be able supported by world class fullbacks.

I also honestly believe Bergkmp would thrive in such a roll. The gaps he would find in a defence occupied with Batistuta and Ronaldinho would leave him space to cut any back 3 to pieces.

Aside from the fact I think I have more goals in my team with that front 3, Suarez, Seedorf, Augenthaler and Irwin - don't forget that after 70 minutes of being battered by Batigol, hoodwinked by Ronny and outthought by Bergkamp, in Aguero I can spring exactly that probing striker you spoke of from the bench to exploit a tiring defence.
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Yeah agree with most of you that you mentioned. As Raees mentioned an overlapping right back would be a lot better as well giving you natural width, but apart from that your midfield is spot on.

My comment on Bergkamp is more of my preference of a complete attacker with a bundle of pace who can stretch up the opposition defence and utilize all the passes and opportunities your midfield is bond to create.
 
A really underwhelming pair of center backs for @diarm. I prefer his attack and midfield, but defence :(
 
harms said:
A really underwhelming pair of center backs for @diarm. I prefer his attack and midfield, but defence :(
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The most decorated player in Bundesliga history and two world cup winning centre backs are hardly underwhelming!
 
diarm said:
The most decorated player in Bundesliga history and two world cup winning centre backs are hardly underwhelming!
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I know about their trophy hall. It doesn't make them better than they are though.
 
idmanager said:
Tending towards Raees based on first look as he looks more balanced with good assignments and roles for every player.

Diarm's team has a lot that doesn't meet the eye at once. Seedorf at RM would be crucial if this is to work. Luis Suarez is a great fit for that midfield as well along with Deschamps.

One of those games which I would vote based on discussions rather than lineups as it depends a lot on how they are setup tactically to outmaneuver the other.
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How does that not meet the eye?
 
Two fabulous team with some very nice well thought out touches here and there (which I didn't expect with such an unpredictable chain).

It will go down to mistakes, specific weaknesses IMO. On the one hand Ronaldinho vs. Kaltz/Lucio. At the other end Hummels trying to stop Fontaine :lol: and Deschamps likely to come short against Zidane (his greatest asset was reading, anticipating, slowing tempo... whenever Zidane surprises/outsmarts him, which he will, he'll be left completely out of the equation).
 
harms said:
I know about their trophy hall. It doesn't make them better than they are though.
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You're doing Augenthaler a disservice. He was an excellent centre back.

BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Amazing the amount of in-depth discussion (which is interesting to read for a spoon like me) on about 19 or so players but nothing about the goalie(s).

In most drafts they seem to be discarded as a technical irrelevance but in THIS draft.....?
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I don't think either keeper is a weakness in this game? I'd take Preud'homme ahead of Cech but neither is a liability here.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Amazing the amount of in-depth discussion (which is interesting to read for a spoon like me) on about 19 or so players but nothing about the goalie(s).

In most drafts they seem to be discarded as a technical irrelevance but in THIS draft.....?
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We both have solid keepers tbh so I will just speak about my own.

I purposefully chose a picture of Cech pre helmet.. as I want to discuss him at his peak, before the injury.

image-805-large-1024.jpg




A full on knee, while running at full pelt.. Cech was never the same again, albeit still remaining a world class goalkeeper. However this was a man destined to be a GOAT level keeper as he matured, but after this incident.. he never quite hit those historic heights he could have.

Death was a matter of inches away that afternoon. Seconds away. And with every second after the 15th of the match, it got closer and closer until a surgeon inserted metal plates in Cech’s head at the John Radcliffe Hospital neurological unit in Oxford, 30 miles from the Madejski Stadium.

Cech fractured his skull from the “knee…maybe the shin” of Hunt. He required emergency surgery to save his life. His career would never be the same. From that moment on, he has worn the protective headguard on the pitch that would become his trademark.

Life or death. That is how it will be remembered. There were other consequences, though. Then-Chelsea manager Jose Mourinho caused outrage by accusing the ambulance staff on duty that day of putting Cech’s life in danger by taking too long to respond.

Hunt’s leg dented Cech’s skull and pushed pieces of bone towards the brain. It was these pieces that threatened his life. One wrong move, and the fragments were in danger of lacerating or bruising the brain and damaging blood vessels. There were even reports from medical sources that Cech’s injury was consistent with that of a car crash.

As Cech waned, English’s initial concern was a risk of increased pressure on the brain, which could cause a seizure. This can also crush soft tissue, which can be fatal. When it became clear following a brain scan at the Royal Berkshire that the broken pieces of bone were more than five millimeters deeper than the skull, the decision was made to operate.

He was transferred to Oxford at 1 a.m. In an operation lasting hours, surgeons at the neurological unit inspected the brain’s outer casing, moved the pieces of bone away and then reassembled the skull, inserting two metal plates just above his left ear.

sport-graphics-2008_697468a.jpg

Cech, of course, did recover. And while Hunt and Mourinho have been able to keep closeted the bearing of that October day, Cech has a constant visual and physical reminder—as does anyone who watches him play. The headgear he had specially made allowed him to continue his career.

Frank Weigl, senior product designer at Adidas, was charged with getting it right. Weigl took 3D scans of Cech’s head and consulted with the ‘keeper and his doctor three times.

“We started using a plastic plate to cover the injured zone of his head,” Weigl says. “But Petr and his doctor preferred to insert a very shock-absorbing foam on the sides of the helmet. He wanted to wear it as if it weren’t there. It could affect his hearing, for example.”

Even before reaching that stage, Cech had a fight. Doctors told him he should not play again that season. It was a prognosis he was desperate to prove wrong despite being unable to speak for days. “The words would come out all wrong,” he told Mike Pattenden of the Mail on Sunday. His rehabilitation also included seeing a psychologist and cognitive specialist.

In January 20, 2007, Cech made his comeback in front of the world. Headgear and all. Chelsea lost 2-0 to Liverpool. It wasn’t long before the soap opera would start again. Time heals all wounds, but there are plenty prepared to try to open them up.

“It irritates me that people say ‘he wears it because he’s afraid’ or psychologically it makes me feel more secure,” Cech told Pattenden. “They have no idea what my surgeon said. They have no knowledge of brain injuries. If I needed help psychologically, I’d wear an American football helmet.

“When you play in goal, you expect to get kicked. When the ball is there to be won, I don’t consider what might happen.”

PRE-INJURY CECH

 
Bloody hell! How am I supposed to counter the "he could've died" sympathy vote?
 
diarm said:
Bloody hell! How am I supposed to counter the "he could've died" sympathy vote?
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:lol: sorry pal. Just wanted to make it clear which version of Cech I'm looking at here.
 
diarm said:
I don't think either keeper is a weakness in this game? I'd take Preud'homme ahead of Cech but neither is a liability here.
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Just replying to you, Raees's is too long to include :) (but read).

Not saying there's anything wrong just the contrast in comments between goalies and outfield players is noticeable in draft discussions. They can have great games and 'save' two goals as much as a forward can score two....

... just a comment.
 
I was tempted to start the hard as nails Schramesis as an out and out stopper alongside Augenthaler but felt the lack of information and detail from that era would count against him.

Seems like that may have been a mistake and I might need to make a substitution.
 
Overall these are two well constructed sides. Both teams just have a flow where I can see both getting some good synergy effects. I think Bergkamp works great with Ronaldinho and Suarez and Seedorf is great balance. I think in a vacuum Raees side looks slightly more balanced with objectively better CBs. But the tactic diarm is using can exploit some of the weak spots in Raees' formation very well. I see Ronaldinho primed for the better game. Kaltz is a great attacking full back but I think Ronaldinho is going to cause him no end of problems as he exploits Kaltz' main weakness as a wide defender - trying to cover slippery movement. Zidane on the other hand is covered by a player who is well suited to stifle the influence of Zizou. At the same time Hummels-Augenthaler is just not as solid against the opposition strikers as the Cannavaro-Ferdinand-Lucio line. Will have to think about this for a few hours.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
And diarm could have had Pele instead of Schnellinger :lol:
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Had I picked Pele instead of Schnellinger, I'd be fielding Mimis Plessas - a Greek journeyman without so much as a Wikipedia page - against Stoichkov in this match! Schnellinger was an absolute beast of a defender and will have a massive impact. I regret nothing!

Of all the wonderful players on show in this game, I feel Luis Suarez Miramontes will have the greatest influence. Spains greatest ever player, the man they called the architect - creating for the likes of Ronaldinho and Batistuta is a scintillating proposition. And that's before we factor in the goal threat he provides himself.

There are goals all over my side, from defence (Augenthaler in particular but also Irwin), through midfield (Suarez and Seedorf) and then all three attackers were prolific. Yes there is danger from all 3 of our opponents forwards but I just don't see the same levels of threat coming from anywhere else in his side.

Irwin is being underrated because he played in an Ireland side which was never going to truly threaten the world stage. Had he been involved at the business end of major tournaments with a German, Italian or Brazilian side we would speak of him amongst the very elite. In defence or going forward he will be an asset in this match up.
 
For all the talk of how well his defence will marshal my attack, it's worth nothing that Batistuta has previous for giving Cannavaro in particular a torrid time. In 2001 he scored both goals in a crucial 2-1 victory away from home in Serie A. That night he bullied a defence including Cannavaro, Thuram and Buffon.

In the return leg a few months he was instrumental in a 3-1 victory against the exact same Parma defence, registering a goal and an assist in a brilliant display which saw Roma land their first Scudetto in almost 20 years on the final day of the season.

Interestingly, it was in that same season that Batigol began forming such a wonderful partnership and understanding with a Francesco Totti who would occupy a similar area of the field to Bergkamp in my side.
 
diarm said:
For all the talk of how well his defence will marshal my attack, it's worth nothing that Batistuta has previous for giving Cannavaro in particular a torrid time. In 2001 he scored both goals in a crucial 2-1 victory away from home in Serie A. That night he bullied a defence including Cannavaro, Thuram and Buffon.

In the return leg a few months he was instrumental in a 3-1 victory against the exact same Parma defence, registering a goal and an assist in a brilliant display which saw Roma land their first Scudetto in almost 20 years on the final day of the season.

Interestingly, it was in that same season that Batigol began forming such a wonderful partnership and understanding with a Francesco Totti who would occupy a similar area of the field to Bergkamp in my side.
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Batistuta is one of my favorite strikers. Had a posted of him as a boy and ever wanted to see him in United shirt since Fergie expressed not only once he liked him as a player.

He'll definitely have a good game here with all the service he's getting.
 
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