Do we have enough goals in the squad?

ManUnitedCanuck

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I really like the direction the club has headed this summer, with transfers getting done quickly and going for younger signings.

Key area where we have been lacking in recent times is goals scored, and I believe this will still be a challenge for us in the near future. Hopefully players find some goalscoring form (ie. Rashford) and we see growth from the likes of Hojlund.

Do think this is where we will still struggle for a season or two.
 
Nope. Still short by some distance.
 
No, not really but I also think we still lack idea's in how to attack.
 
On individual level, yes. We actually have a strong attack now with a good number of "10 goals a season" players, plus a few ones that can chip in with some decent goal contributions as well.

Our next investment should rather be a coach that will teach those players how to move the ball instead of running with it too much, because THAT is by far our biggest struggle.
 
I don’t think so. I don’t think we’re lacking in players who can score goals though. I think we’re lacking in facilitators who can set up players to score goals.
 
If a lot of players play really, really well then maybe. I don't really believe you can buy goals. You can buy a goalscorer, sure, but that doesn't exactly translate to more goals for the team.

Something has to be done about our set pieces though. That's an area where we've been woeful for a long time. Our only consistent threat from them is Casemiro, and plenty have written him off completely.
 
Nah. Fourth season running where I don’t think we break 60 goals in the league season upcoming.
 
No. We don't have one consistent high scoring wide forward. Nor do we have a centre forward who will score particularly heavily. Only hope is to become a well coached outfit that is better than the sum of their parts. Failing that, Rashford decides he's a footballer again.
 
No. I think we're relying on Rashford finding himself again. I'm not sure whether or not that will happen this time.
 
Realistically we should be looking at something along the lines of,

Hojlund - 20 goals
Rashford - 15-20 goals
Fernandes - 10-15 goals
Garnacho - 10 goals
Diallo - 10 goals
Zirkzee - 10 goals
Sancho - 5-10 goals
McTominay - 5-10 goals if he stays
Mount - 5-10 goals
Casemiro 5 goals if he stays
Defenders between them 5 goals

Even on the lower end of that scale I really don’t see that as unrealistic and if it doesn’t happen then the coaching and tactics needs to be looked at as we have the league, both domestic cups and Europa which is potentially 60+ games.

Last season was awful goal wise and tactically for the most part so I expect a lot of improvement from a lot of the players next season especially with Berrada making it clear that players need to improve on a year or two basis or be moved on, I’m hoping now there’s a proper structure in place the players will be fearful of being moved on if not performing.
 
We don’t, but I am not sure how much it is to do with the players at our disposal and how much to do with the coaching and tactics. Football is ultimately a team game, and what has been lacking is a discernible attacking plan. No patterns go play to speak of, and predictability of approach. It’s made us very easy to play against.

There are teams with lesser players who score more goals.
 
Nope. Said this consistently since Lukaku was sold. It’s not been addressed in years.

Only way is if Garnacho comes back and has a Ronaldo 2006 season where he suddenly explodes
 
If we click, I think the goals will come. Bruno, Hojlund, Garnacho, Zirkzee, Rashford could all in theory get 7-10 goals each in the PL - which would get us to 50 minimum.
The goals are clearly there individually, we just need to hope that the players actually play to their level. We shouldn't have needed to rely on Hojlund getting us the goals in his debut season in a not-so-functioning team - which largely didn't help at how awful Rashford was.

Hopefully the positivity throughout the team will get us into an extra 2-3 gears which we didn't see last couple of seasons - like actually beating a team convincingly 4/5-0.
 
Not sure it's about goals in the squad, like assuming that all players have some inherent goal tally they will achieve regardless of conditions. It's not how it works. If the defence and midfield become functional units and we control games, our forwards have enough about them to win those games. We have played headless chickenball for the last 2 years. If we cut that out, we will have enough goals to get top 4 at least.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Nope. Said this consistently since Lukaku was sold. It’s not been addressed in years.

Only way is if Garnacho comes back and has a Ronaldo 2006 season where he suddenly explodes
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We've added a potentially 10-15 goal striker in Zirkzee to compliment Hojilund, who you'd assume will only improve his output, especially given he picked up an injury just as he was hitting his stride. Then you have Amad, Garnacho and Rashford who's numbers can only improve on last season. Bruno will deliver goals as he always does. Mainoo can chip in too when allowed to get forward.

If we click and ETH genuinely improves us as a football team, the goals should come.
 
I don't disagree that we lack a pure conventional goal scorer, but I believe our problem is more in the lack of creativity.

We always seem to play the ball to feet, rather than playing it for players to run on to. We play wide, and lack or don't play many through balls, which doesn't help when our wide players just want to cut in and shoot at every opportunity.

All that plus we play too open, hopefully with the addition of Yoro and hopefully de Ligt, we can push the defense higher and leave our midfield with less space to cover.
Which could lead to more turnovers higher up and hopefully more chances created.
 
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Something something, patterns of play bollox.

Guess we'll see how the team is set up this forthcoming season when everyone is back/targets signed.
 
davidmichael said:
Realistically we should be looking at something along the lines of,

Hojlund - 20 goals
Rashford - 15-20 goals
Fernandes - 10-15 goals
Garnacho - 10 goals
Diallo - 10 goals
Zirkzee - 10 goals
Sancho - 5-10 goals
McTominay - 5-10 goals if he stays
Mount - 5-10 goals
Casemiro 5 goals if he stays
Defenders between them 5 goals

Even on the lower end of that scale I really don’t see that as unrealistic and if it doesn’t happen then the coaching and tactics needs to be looked at as we have the league, both domestic cups and Europa which is potentially 60+ games.

Last season was awful goal wise and tactically for the most part so I expect a lot of improvement from a lot of the players next season especially with Berrada making it clear that players need to improve on a year or two basis or be moved on, I’m hoping now there’s a proper structure in place the players will be fearful of being moved on if not performing.
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If you assume the lower end of the scale and 60 games, that actually works out at 1.67 goals per game, which isn't much better than the 1.58 we managed in the league last term. We probably do need the higher end of the scale (2.08gpg) if we're gonna achieve much.

Oh and you forgot Antony. Put him down for a half?
 
Last seasons numbers in the League

Bruno 10G 8A
Hojlund 10G 2A
Garnacho 7G 4A
Rashford 7G 2A
Antony 1G 1A
Amad 1G 1A

I can't imagine they will collectively have as bad of a season again.
 
CM said:
No. I think we're relying on Rashford finding himself again. I'm not sure whether or not that will happen this time.
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Regardless who you put in this sentence (Rashford or anyone else), if this is AGAIN the strategy then we are doomed regardless of how much money we spent. This is 1 in 10 strategy.
davidmichael said:
Realistically we should be looking at something along the lines of,

Hojlund - 20 goals
Rashford - 15-20 goals
Fernandes - 10-15 goals
Garnacho - 10 goals
Diallo - 10 goals
Zirkzee - 10 goals
Sancho - 5-10 goals
McTominay - 5-10 goals if he stays
Mount - 5-10 goals
Casemiro 5 goals if he stays
Defenders between them 5 goals

Even on the lower end of that scale I really don’t see that as unrealistic and if it doesn’t happen then the coaching and tactics needs to be looked at as we have the league, both domestic cups and Europa which is potentially 60+ games.

Last season was awful goal wise and tactically for the most part so I expect a lot of improvement from a lot of the players next season especially with Berrada making it clear that players need to improve on a year or two basis or be moved on, I’m hoping now there’s a proper structure in place the players will be fearful of being moved on if not performing.
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Exactly.

Interesting stat is that neither of City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Aston Villa, Tottenham and Chelsea had more than 2 players who scored more than 10 non-penalty last season (although Foden + Haaland scored 39 combined so that's another story).

We have many 7-10 goals a season players, the personnel isn't the problem.
 
Depends what you mean by "enough".

If we look at the last four seasons, the average amount of goals scored by the 3rd/4th placed teams was just under 70 goals.

Is there enough in the team to bridge the 13 goal gap between that and what we scored last season? Quite possibly. After all, Rashford's drop in form alone saw him personally score 12 fewer non-penalty goals than the previous season. It doesn't take that much to change for us to score like a top four team again.

If you're expecting more than that, then no. But there's a reason everyone at the club including the new onwers are talking about a multi-year rebuild.
 
Shark said:
We've added a potentially 10-15 goal striker in Zirkzee to compliment Hojilund, who you'd assume will only improve his output, especially given he picked up an injury just as he was hitting his stride. Then you have Amad, Garnacho and Rashford who's numbers can only improve on last season. Bruno will deliver goals as he always does. Mainoo can chip in too when allowed to get forward.

If we click and ETH genuinely improves us as a football team, the goals should come.
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I think this sort of reasoning happens every season though and inevitably we always end up struggling to score a high number of goals

Rashford is the only one who has proven he can get in the ballpark of 30 goals so far in his career. But he’s been very cold on form for 12 months.

Zirkzee complimenting Højlund requires having two forwards, which I can’t recall us doing regularly since Sir Alex retired. And if we play both of them, where does Fernandes play?

What I think Zirkzee can do is get more out of the wide forwards if they find the goalscoring touch. Which is the reason for my Garnacho comment. But while I think Garnacho can be world class, I don’t think he’s ever going to be a 30 goal forward.

If we find the funds late after sorting out midfield and defence - and if Brentford lower their price - I’d be going for Ivan Toney. Think he could score loads for United.
 
No, but it really depends how many we’re going to concede. If it’s anything like last season, we’re doomed
 
LawCharltonBest said:
I think this sort of reasoning happens every season though and inevitably we always end up struggling to score a high number of goals

Rashford is the only one who has proven he can get in the ballpark of 30 goals so far in his career. But he’s been very cold on form for 12 months.

Zirkzee complimenting Højlund requires having two forwards, which I can’t recall us doing regularly since Sir Alex retired. And if we play both of them, where does Fernandes play?

What I think Zirkzee can do is get more out of the wide forwards if they find the goalscoring touch. Which is the reason for my Garnacho comment. But while I think Garnacho can be world class, I don’t think he’s ever going to be a 30 goal forward.

If we find the funds late after sorting out midfield and defence - and if Brentford lower their price - I’d be going for Ivan Toney. Think he could score loads for United.
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We don't need a 30 goal a season forward. Apart from City who we're not catching anytime soon anyway, only Aston Villa (Watkins) and Newcastle (Isak) have forward who scored more than 15 non-penalty goals last season (19 and 16 respectively).
What we need is to find a system in which there are multiple ways to attack and create chances for our forwards, wingers and attacking midfielders + dangerous set pieces and fullbacks chipping in (that shouldn't be a problem).
 
If Hojlund was the main striker on City last season I think he would have scored 25-30 goals. The issue is we don’t have enough players who will provide that precise, cutting pass that slices open the defense and enables the scoring opportunity.

On top of that, as has been mentioned, last season we struggled to control games and spent entirely too much time in our own half which limits scoring opportunities.
 
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Borys said:
Regardless who you put in this sentence (Rashford or anyone else), if this is AGAIN the strategy then we are doomed regardless of how much money we spent. This is 1 in 10 strategy.
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I didn't say it was a good strategy, hence my answer to the question was no. Even when Rashford was putting up good numbers the season before last, we weren't scoring enough goals. I don't think the goals come until we sign a few more players and a better coach comes in.
 
Depends. Think Hojlund will score more vs his playing time, but that looks like it'll be cut with Zirkzee coming in. Rashford to score more during his time on the pitch and Amad to deliver when hes playing instead. We still look short for a top team but I think normal progression from the players we already had last season would improve on last season's goals scored. I could see us getting into the high 70s for goals all together. Still over 20 less than the top 2
 
Personally I think if we remove Rashford from the equation we as a collective will score a lot more goals.

We need people that are willing to provide and think of the collective rather than playing for themselves and having watched Rasmus to me with service he’ll bang in the goals. Still obviously going to take a bit of time till he is nailed on 20 pl goals a season but I think he is more than capable.

We just need people that will think of the collective. If we can get the forwards playing as a unit goals will come.
 
We don't struggle for goalscorers we struggle for cohesion and a spine to the team in terms of ball winning, the first problem gets solved on the training field (and with some better recruitment which I think we been trying to do this window) the second is purely recruitment but not necessarily of goalscorers.

We have players in the squad who have it within them to put up farbetter numbers in the right setup.
 
CM said:
I didn't say it was a good strategy, hence my answer to the question was no. Even when Rashford was putting up good numbers the season before last, we weren't scoring enough goals. I don't think the goals come until we sign a few more players and a better coach comes in.
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I got that, and I agree with this, just wanted to point out our strategy in recent years has been to bet on individuals doing something amazing rather than building a platform for our forward players to shine as a collective, rather than bunch of individuals.

Last season we've been equally lucky (with FA Cup) and unlucky (in EPL). But I'd argue we have far better players than the type of football we play would indicate. We don't need more attackers until other gaps are closed first (especially in midfield).

BAMSOLA said:
We don't struggle for goalscorers we struggle for cohesion and a spine to the team in terms of ball winning, the first problem gets solved on the training field (and with some better recruitment which I think we been trying to do this window) the second is purely recruitment but not necessarily of goalscorers.

We have players in the squad who have it within them to put up farbetter numbers in the right setup.
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Agree with this post 100%.
 
Lu Tze said:
Not sure it's about goals in the squad, like assuming that all players have some inherent goal tally they will achieve regardless of conditions. It's not how it works. If the defence and midfield become functional units and we control games, our forwards have enough about them to win those games. We have played headless chickenball for the last 2 years. If we cut that out, we will have enough goals to get top 4 at least.
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Yeah I agree, I've never seen it in those terms either. You just need to look at Spain in the Euros. They don't have prolific goalscorer or wingers who have scored high volume. However if teams dominate games and get the ball into good positions, they will score goals.

If we get better and controlling games and sustaining attacks, we will score enough. Our two strikers are tidy finishers and our wingers can make things happen, if given opportunities
 
Absolutely not, same as last season. We should be buying an experienced number 9.
 
Think we do, quite easily, if the midfield is sorted. You only need your front men to all get decently into double figures (which isn’t that high individually) with the rest of the team chipping in to be in a good place.

The issue is I’m not it will be sorted yet.
 
In 2021/22 season, City has scored 99 goals, and only KDB and Sterling scored more than 10 non-penalty goals (15 and 11 respectively). This is what we should be aiming for rather than putting too much faith in our #9 scoring 30 goals. Rashford is a mystery, I am not sold on Hojlund and Zirkee will only start his EPL adventure. The goals need to come from how the team plays and creates chances rather than individuals. It's the complete opposite to what we've been doing in the last 2 seasons (or more), so I'm not particularly optimistic - but this season it's not a personnel problem anymore.
 
We are supposed to be this attacking team. Its the 'United way' apparently. Yet we don't score goals for sht and we haven't for years. I reckon over the last 10 years we have broken the 70 goal barrier once, then a couple 60 and the rest 50's. I can't be bothered to check. Man City and occasionally Liverpool are hitting high 80's/90''s. Thats should be the target and we are fkn miles off. We should at least be in the 70's. That should get us top 4. We should do it but its a toss of a coin if we do. None if our forwards are consistent. They might get 10 or 20 or 5 or 2. Who knows?
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Think we do, quite easily, if the midfield is sorted. You only need your front men to all get decently into double figures (which isn’t that high individually) with the rest of the team chipping in to be in a good place.

The issue is I’m not it will be sorted yet.
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Exactly, the midfield is key. The problem last season wasn’t just that all our forwards were off the boil (although they were), it was that we were completely incapable of stamping our authority on matches, due to the big void in the middle of the park, and so we were mostly reliant on moments of quality to get us goals. If we can sort out that problem, and it’s a big if, we should have enough quality up front to get the goals we couldn’t get last season.
 
Yes - you only need thirty eight goals to win a treble.

(1 goal in every prem game and then win the FA Cup and CL by drawing every game and winning on penalties apart from the group stages where you scrape through after six nil nil games)

I reckon we have 38 goals in the squad.
 
I worry less about scoring from chances than creating them. We need better wingers and midfielders to create
 
Wumminator said:
Yes - you only need thirty eight goals to win a treble.

(1 goal in every prem game and then win the FA Cup and CL by drawing every game and winning on penalties apart from the group stages where you scrape through after six nil nil games)

I reckon we have 38 goals in the squad.
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Who says you need to win all your league games? We could probably manage with just 28 goals. We have a Leny now, so 60-odd clean sheets should be the expectation.
 
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