Do our players think they're suddenly a great team?

Mr Pigeon

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Yes, another negative thread right after a bad game, but this one has been a long time coming. We've dropped so many points this season after going up because our players just start fecking about. You'd think that with them being so wasteful in front of goal they would keep the foot on the pedal until we're well ahead, but it seems like they still haven't figured out that we can turn a win into a loss or draw quite easily.

I know that fatigue is likely a major factor, but what is it about their attitudes that stink? Is it because we've been so shite for years that the majority of these players think they can rest easy now that we're winning every now and then? We still have too many players just willing to coast.
 
We lack the ruthless qualities top teams have. It's been a theme many times post SAF. We rarely thump teams by 4/5 goals. It's a problem.
 
Good point, the way they started passing the ball from a standstill position was very infuriating.

No one wanted to move without the ball in the 2nd half.
 
I doubt they think they're a great team, just a glance at the scoreboard or the table should remind them simply enough.
 
m1tch said:
I doubt they think they're a great team, just a glance at the scoreboard or the table should remind them simply enough.
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I mean compared to what they're usually used to. They've gone up one level in quality and think that's enough.
 
Boils my piss beyond belief that as soon as they scored their first we go up the pitch and immediately hit the bar.

It’s a choice to feck around and do nothing for 45 minutes.

We have far too many thick players at the club who don’t have the mentality (or talent, for that matter) to see it through. It then spreads across the team like a sickness.

Ten Hag will get stick for the poor performances from his subs, but by design they were supposed to inject some energy into a team that had genuinely decided that there wasn’t a football game going on. Turns out they also played like prats.

I’d let Wan-Bissaka rot in the reserves until he finds a new club after that shit show.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Yes, another negative thread right after a bad game, but this one has been a long time coming. We've dropped so many points this season after going up because our players just start fecking about. You'd think that with them being so wasteful in front of goal they would keep the foot on the pedal until we're well ahead, but it seems like they still haven't figured out that we can turn a win into a loss or draw quite easily.

I know that fatigue is likely a major factor, but what is it about their attitudes that stink? Is it because we've been so shite for years that the majority of these players think they can rest easy now that we're winning every now and then? We still have too many players just willing to coast.
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I’m not buying fatigue, because as soon as it was 2-2 we were back on top and controlling the game again. It’s all about mindset.

This is the difference between a 70 point season and an 85+ one. City, Arsenal and even fecking Newcastle keep going and put themselves in an unassailable position.

We’ve done this so often at Old Trafford this season, yet have mostly got away with it. You can’t take 30 minutes off and let the opposition back into the match.
 
Were atrocious at managing games, our players just can not take the life out of a game without making it extremely easy for the opposition to cut through us. As soon as we're not gung-ho going forward we shit ourselves, it doesn't help that the team is weak as piss when it comes to tackling and physicality either. It's disgraceful looking at Rashford and Sancho press at times, jog up close and turn around. We need intensity, grit and a fighting spirit, currently we have very little of it
 
I think it's a combination of many things. Tired legs, tired minds, a lack of quality options in the squad which makes rotating problematic, and just plain old issues we need to sort in terms of personnel and our play. Some are not good enough and some are not switched on enough, which has the same effect as being not good enough if you don't deploy your talent consistently.

It just shows how far we have to go.
 
People scared of Liverpool. Do people forget that they were lucky to get three points against Nottingham Forest?

They are 7 points behind and we have a game in hand. Their maximum points available is 71; our maximum points available are 81.

We only need to average 1.7 points per game if Liverpool win all of their remaining games, which is not likely.
 
Lecland07 said:
People scared of Liverpool. Do people forget that they were lucky to get three points against Nottingham Forest?

They are 7 points behind and we have a game in hand. Their maximum points available is 71; our maximum points available are 81.

We only need to average 1.7 points per game if Liverpool win all of their remaining games, which is not likely.
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This is probably the exact kind of attitude our players have. Which is why we are so shit when we get comfortable.
 
King7Eric said:
This is probably the exact kind of attitude our players have. Which is why we are so shit when we get comfortable.
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Liverpool have beaten West Ham, Nottingham forest and Leeds, three of the weakest teams in the league this season (their last three games). People are getting scared because of that, and they still conceded 4 goals. They have shown all season that they will drop points.

Perhaps we should wait until they play teams not in a relegation fight? Tottenham, Fulham, Brentford and Aston Villa to come for them. I'm not worried about them at this point.
 
I don't really think it's this. I actually think it's almost the opposite; I don't think the players believe in themselves enough. Every time we've come under pressure, everything has fallen to shit.

I actually want the players to start playing with a bit more confidence. I think it's confidence that sees City completely take command of games once they smell blood. We don't seem to have that.
 
City have scored 34 goals more than us and conceded 10 less, that's the story right there. Even a Harry Kane type striker wouldn't get us near them, unfortunately.
 
It was obvious. Sancho got a goal and seemed to be satified with that, even though with the amount of space he had he should have scored more.

Rashford seemed more interested in scoring a worldie than keeping it simple and scoring. The Bruno chance is an example of this too, after a great piece of skill he tries a dink finish when a simple side foot would have sufficed.

That is not the mentality of a serious side. Ronaldo ended up being a mistake but he was too ruthless to indulge in some of the nonsense our players were doing today when up in this game.
 
A lot of them played like they weren't arsed tonight. We were let off the hook in the first half because Spurs were worse than us but we were going through the motions and seemed to just expect that the game would win itself.

Spurs decided they would actually press us a bit in the second half and the players who were half arsing it for us came unstuck big time. The manner of it was sickening to watch, and we're lucky we didn't lose the game in the end. Same complacency that saw us stuff the Sevilla tie right up.
 
The quality of our squad is a team that might finish in the top four, that’s way it’s been since SAF left. This is what teams of that standard to, have ups and downs and finish on about 65-70 points give or take.

Until we replace players who have consistently proven they aren’t good enough with better players and also make improvements through coaching on how we control games with and without the ball it will be the same cycle repeating itself.
 
It’s 100% mentality.
2-0 at half time no worries boys just stroll around ping a few balls and we’ll be golden…….
That HAS to be fecking drummed out of them right now.
when I played if we were winning at half time the talk in the changing room was “we start again at 0-0 win your battles etc”
We ponced about as if we had scored 7 in the first half. ETH needs to tear a strip off all of them tonight.
 
I blame Ten Haag. He orchestrated the team. It feels that he does a lot of thinking and takes action after the match, but he does not seem effective in pushing the players in game.
 
It's much better. Still we see some complacency still, we see that when fear kicks in 'safety' first is still hurting us. It's like they think pretending to be a great team means recycling the ball, slow down tempo and play save passes back to De Gea, and play out from the back. It's actually ridiculous. They need to up the tempo and make the right choices quickly but when they scare they think being safe is better, and it happens a lot. They think consequence instead of thinking space, but Varane and Licha had that consistent partnership making life more predictable for the midfield. That helped a lot, but quite a few of these players just aren't capable to change like Maguire, Lindelof and maybe even Shaw and Rashford.
 
DownRiver said:
I blame Ten Haag. He orchestrated the team. It feels that he does a lot of thinking and takes action after the match, but he does not seem effective in pushing the players in game.
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Which is not really a problem during his first season surely. Considering where we was when he took the job.
 
He needs to learn quickly that you can’t prioritise every cup, even City can’t manage that and they probably have the best strength in depth in the world atm,
The team looks mentally gassed to me.
 
Mmm-Qatarian said:
I don't really think it's this. I actually think it's almost the opposite; I don't think the players believe in themselves enough. Every time we've come under pressure, everything has fallen to shit.

I actually want the players to start playing with a bit more confidence. I think it's confidence that sees City completely take command of games once they smell blood. We don't seem to have that.
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I get that. As a Scot I've seen plenty of our national team just waiting to concede a goal, almost begging for it to happen. But it seems like it's happened quite often recently that once United concede we suddenly start playing with purpose again quite easily, but it's often too late. Maybe it can be both?
 
I think it's a lack of game intelligence and winning mentality. We don't have enough leaders or top experienced players that know how to handle pressure. Whenever we lose momentum you rarely see us trying to take it back, we just let oppositions pile on the pressure. Team is full of good boys not enough men. Nobody wanted to talk to opposition players during the penalties according to WW and I'm not surprised. We lack personalities more than skill.
 
Berbaclass said:
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Can't speak about the 2nd half, but in the 1st half which we dominated the occasions that I noticed were Wan-Bissaka jogging instead of pelting to close down Perisic and Rashford moaning at the ref when he was dispossessed near our box instead of legging it back to help the team deal with it. Thought Casemiro looked a bit leggy (still) and Antony reverted back to not going around his marker on the right to stretch play or keep the tempo up. All of which is being a little picky as we were much the better side that half.
 
Bastian said:
Can't speak about the 2nd half, but in the 1st half which we dominated the occasions that I noticed were Wan-Bissaka jogging instead of pelting to close down Perisic and Rashford moaning at the ref when he was dispossessed near our box instead of legging it back to help the team deal with it. Thought Casemiro looked a bit leggy (still) and Antony reverted back to not going around his marker on the right to stretch play or keep the tempo up. All of which is being a little picky as we were much the better side that half.
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Not picky as all. Tottenham chose to target our right side of the defense. They played badly and got shocked by the early goal. However, they did pass and go around AWB quite a few times in the first half that lead to a couple of square ball across our goal. An attacking sequence that saw Perisic clean through with goal siight and option to square to Son occurred just before our quick counter leading to Rashford goal.

Spurs knows how not take on AWB, but pass and move around him instead. When they improved their execution in the second half, we lost control of the game.
 
Certainly demonstrated a level of arrogance in games since winning League Cup
 
Till the time we weed out all the players infected with the "mediocre is ok" poison fed by OGS over 3 seasons, this kind of lapses will keep coming. Whether it's Liverpool or today, even a single player can infect the team mentality. Cull them all. Start afresh.
 
Roboc7 said:
The quality of our squad is a team that might finish in the top four, that’s way it’s been since SAF left. This is what teams of that standard to, have ups and downs and finish on about 65-70 points give or take.

Until we replace players who have consistently proven they aren’t good enough with better players and also make improvements through coaching on how we control games with and without the ball it will be the same cycle repeating itself.
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The problem we face now after years of underachievement and richer clubs competing against us is where do we get these first choice signings?

So many players we have wanted since Sir Alex retired who could have won us trophies rejected us for greener pastures. Toni Kroos, Bale, Haaland, list could go on and on.

City have Pep’s pull so the best go there currently. Real, Barcelona and Bayern naturally have a pull too due to easy trophies and glamour.

How do we beat those clubs to the best of the best is the question? Not when they are 30 either and want a new challenge after already winning everything.

To win a premier league title you need to be front of that queue consistently. We are 2nd or third choice as a club. Probably always have been so we relied on a great manager who retired sadly.
 


This was Shaw 1 week after winning the league cup. I.always maintain that I don't trust this squad to win us big trophies. Mentality and attitude is just good for top 4 fight.
 
We pay so much for them and put them on a monster wage so we cannot really blame them for thinking they are better than what they actually are?
 
Too relaxed or just exhausted? We knew it was coming given the heavy use of the same players throughout the fall and winter period.

Casemiro and Eriksen has been out with injuries and aren't back in form yet, especially Casemiro. Varane and Martinez are out injured.
Those four players were absolutely instrumental to the way we controlled matches.
 
RedBanker said:
Till the time we weed out all the players infected with the "mediocre is ok" poison fed by OGS over 3 seasons, this kind of lapses will keep coming. Whether it's Liverpool or today, even a single player can infect the team mentality. Cull them all. Start afresh.
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Agree, but that’s never going to happen, being unlikely as with most Utd players another club would match their ridiculous wages.
 
I just think we get complacent - games won at 2-0 so can take the foot off the gas with the assumption the third will just come at some point... but obviously we are terrible at putting games to bed.

When was the last time we were 3-0 up at HT in th Prem? I honestly couldn't tell you.
 
I think another point worth mentioning is that the squad is still ultimately a bit of a hodge-podge.

We still have a lot of players signed by either Mourinho or Solskjaer who aren't particularly good at retaining possession under pressure, because neither of these managers' systems revolved around that.

It causes us huge problems when certain players (predominantly Eriksen and Martinez) are injured because we become massively susceptible to pressure and thus when teams smell blood we tend to panic.

Fortunately, we only have one player (De Gea) from the first choice team when everyone's fit who causes major problems in this regard. However, going forward we need to be keeping it at the forefront of any conversations regarding transfers because we need the rest of the squad to be at least capable of it too.
 
We arent ruthless enough. We miss big chances that you see other teams like liverpool, city, newcastle, arsenal scoring.

Antony hits the post at 2-0 vs Sevilla.
Rashford misses a chance at 0-0 v Liverpool.
Yesterday Bruno misses a chance at 2-1.


There are a few others, but the team becomes too relaxed at times, and what ETH said is right, it seems like the players think 80-90% is doable and we can coast to the end. And then when things go against us, they arent able to turn it back on.
 
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