Defensive walls on free-kicks…

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
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Maybe it’s just me but this is just essentially one of football’s ‘bad habits’.

Of course, the concept is that the wall covers one side of the goal, and the goalkeeper shifts to cover the other side. It relies upon the difficulty of the striker getting the ball over the wall and down again. Only, often enough, they do.

Surely, the chances of a striker beating a centrally positioned goalkeeper from 30 yards is extremely low? Most of these free-kicks go in because having cleared the wall, the goalkeeper can’t get across. Now, a free-kick right on the 18 yard line may warrant a wall, but the odds on a 30 yard penalty are firmly with the goalkeeper, and from my layman perspective, these walls simply increase the likelihood of a player scoring from a free-kick.

Yesterday I saw Raheem fecking Sterling score a free kick, and I doubt he could ordinarily score from those sorts of distances past Pope, certainly not in a manner where Pope would be rooted to the spot.
 
I think you underestimate how difficult it can be to save a shot from 20-25 yards when a player can strike it with pure power and has an unobstructed run up and view of the goal. Shots from distance in open play are low percentage less because of the distance and more because the shooter rarely gets to stride as forcefully as possible into the ball with both sides of the goal to choose from and a clear look at his options.

The odds may still be firmly with the keeper but with walls its probably something like 5-10% of free kicks that are scored even from dangerous positions and I bet that number goes up substantially without a wall. A guy like KDB is just going to blast rockets in that scenario.
 
Defensive walls have one purpose and that is to increase the predictability for the goalkeeper.

If the defensive team didn’t put up a wall then the attacking team would do it instead. That would wreck havoc for the goalie. Instead of a wall that is aiding you there would be a wall there actively trying to hinder you.
 
Samid said:
Defensive walls have one purpose and that is to increase the predictability for the goalkeeper.

If the defensive team didn’t put up a wall then the attacking team would do it instead. That would wreck havoc for the goalie. Instead of a wall that is aiding you there would be a wall there actively trying to hinder you.
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All I know is that keepers find it difficult to save shots that beat the wall. Shots that they would save comfortably if there was no wall.

If penalties were from 30 yards instead of 12, the keeper would save them all. I appreciate I’m being a bit simplistic here, but I do think there’s at least a middle ground. Too many free kicks that beat keepers only beat them because they happened to be on the other side of the goal.
 
Rozay said:
All I know is that keepers find it difficult to save shots that beat the wall. Shots that they would save comfortably if there was no wall.

If penalties were from 30 yards instead of 12, the keeper would save them all. I appreciate I’m being a bit simplistic here, but I do think there’s at least a middle ground. Too many free kicks that beat keepers only beat them because they happened to be on the other side of the goal.
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That's all fine and I don't necessarily disagree but it's a moot point really.

This is how it looks like when a defensive side sets up a wall:

QoFuSDE.png


This is how it would look like if a defensive side did not set up a wall:

Q4w1ClA.png


There would basically be a clusterfeck of attackers trying to obstruct the goalie. Unlike the first example where you have to beat both the wall and the goalie, in this example you only have to beat the goalie. The wall will do whatever the taker wants them to do.

The only way there would be no wall at all is if the defensive side tried to play the offside trap:

ovmzeHS.png


This wouldn't work either because the defensive side has to stand 10 yards away from the ball. The attackers can take it short and they are several players through on goal with no defender in sight.

Sorry but your anti-Trump idea of trying to remove the wall is majorly flawed.
 
Samid said:
That's all fine and I don't necessarily disagree but it's a moot point really.

This is how it looks like when a defensive side sets up a wall:

QoFuSDE.png


This is how it would look like if a defensive side did not set up a wall:

Q4w1ClA.png


There would basically be a clusterfeck of attackers trying to obstruct the goalie. Unlike the first example where you have to beat both the wall and the goalie, in this example you only have to beat the goalie. The wall will do whatever the taker wants them to do.

The only way there would be no wall at all is if the defensive side tried to play the offside trap:

ovmzeHS.png


This wouldn't work either because the defensive side has to stand 10 yards away from the ball. The attackers can take it short and they are several players through on goal with no defender in sight.

Sorry but your anti-Trump idea of trying to remove the wall is majorly flawed.
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Exactly - and this has actually happened already. Here's a video of Pierre van Hooijdonk (a Dutch few kick specialist) setting up his own wall when the opposing team doesn't:


As you can see, the two guys are only there to block the goalkeeper's view, and get out of the way as soon as the shot is taken - basically just allowing Van Hooijdonk to put the ball exactly where he wants it while reducing the goalkeeper's view of the situation.
 
I’ve played keeper up to a reasonable standard and coached too. I viewed a wall as a means of blocking the most direct spot, and then stood in the middle of the goal. I’d occasionally stand off to a side to try and goad the lad taking the free kick into shooting to the obvious place, but then be back in the middle when they were about to strike the ball. Never understood why premier league keepers stand off to the side and rely so heavily on the wall.
 
Rozay said:
Maybe it’s just me but this is just essentially one of football’s ‘bad habits’.

Of course, the concept is that the wall covers one side of the goal, and the goalkeeper shifts to cover the other side. It relies upon the difficulty of the striker getting the ball over the wall and down again. Only, often enough, they do.

Surely, the chances of a striker beating a centrally positioned goalkeeper from 30 yards is extremely low? Most of these free-kicks go in because having cleared the wall, the goalkeeper can’t get across. Now, a free-kick right on the 18 yard line may warrant a wall, but the odds on a 30 yard penalty are firmly with the goalkeeper, and from my layman perspective, these walls simply increase the likelihood of a player scoring from a free-kick.

Yesterday I saw Raheem fecking Sterling score a free kick, and I doubt he could ordinarily score from those sorts of distances past Pope, certainly not in a manner where Pope would be rooted to the spot.
Click to expand...
I think that the added difficulty of having to clear a wall means a free kick taker is having to think about their shot from a more complicated position than if they were simply thinking about scoring into a net with just the keeper in the way. Maybe thats a factor, others would know better than me.
 
whitbyviking said:
I’ve played keeper up to a reasonable standard and coached too. I viewed a wall as a means of blocking the most direct spot, and then stood in the middle of the goal. I’d occasionally stand off to a side to try and goad the lad taking the free kick into shooting to the obvious place, but then be back in the middle when they were about to strike the ball. Never understood why premier league keepers stand off to the side and rely so heavily on the wall.
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And this is why the Whitby Vikings are languishing in the lower leagues, and why @Big Andy totally has your number.
 
whitbyviking said:
I’ve played keeper up to a reasonable standard and coached too. I viewed a wall as a means of blocking the most direct spot, and then stood in the middle of the goal. I’d occasionally stand off to a side to try and goad the lad taking the free kick into shooting to the obvious place, but then be back in the middle when they were about to strike the ball. Never understood why premier league keepers stand off to the side and rely so heavily on the wall.
Click to expand...

To get a better view
 
Samid said:
That's all fine and I don't necessarily disagree but it's a moot point really.

This is how it looks like when a defensive side sets up a wall:

QoFuSDE.png


This is how it would look like if a defensive side did not set up a wall:

Q4w1ClA.png


There would basically be a clusterfeck of attackers trying to obstruct the goalie. Unlike the first example where you have to beat both the wall and the goalie, in this example you only have to beat the goalie. The wall will do whatever the taker wants them to do.

The only way there would be no wall at all is if the defensive side tried to play the offside trap:

ovmzeHS.png


This wouldn't work either because the defensive side has to stand 10 yards away from the ball. The attackers can take it short and they are several players through on goal with no defender in sight.

Sorry but your anti-Trump idea of trying to remove the wall is majorly flawed.
Click to expand...

Would love to see that 3rd image being played out on the pitch.
 
Samid said:
That's all fine and I don't necessarily disagree but it's a moot point really.

This is how it looks like when a defensive side sets up a wall:

QoFuSDE.png


This is how it would look like if a defensive side did not set up a wall:

Q4w1ClA.png


There would basically be a clusterfeck of attackers trying to obstruct the goalie. Unlike the first example where you have to beat both the wall and the goalie, in this example you only have to beat the goalie. The wall will do whatever the taker wants them to do.

The only way there would be no wall at all is if the defensive side tried to play the offside trap:

ovmzeHS.png


This wouldn't work either because the defensive side has to stand 10 yards away from the ball. The attackers can take it short and they are several players through on goal with no defender in sight.

Sorry but your anti-Trump idea of trying to remove the wall is majorly flawed.
Click to expand...
Yeah this is pretty much what I wanted to say, but far better than I could.
 
Maybe the wall should all be squatting down so the keeper can see over them, and then jump as the player hits it.
 
TheRedHearted said:
Maybe they should be doing hand stands, legs apart so the keeper can see between them, then step bring the legs together now! Engage that core , ladies !
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You'll need a delay for the protective equipment to arrive,there's littleballs involved as well as the matchball :D
 
Trequarista10 said:
Maybe the wall should all be squatting down so the keeper can see over them, and then jump as the player hits it.
Click to expand...

Maybe they should all just set up the wall right on the goal line. If they are all tall enough, the ball will be blocked no matter what. If the kicker is Roberto Carlos though, you will pray that the ball doesn’t strike you
 
Percentage of scored free kicks per taken is surely too low to even think about changing the way of defending them.

If Sterling scores against you, then you definitely need a change of career.
 
This reminds me of a time on here where someone in a De Gea thread claimed that he should be setting up his walls to cover the longest route to goal.

I think @arnie_ni was with me trying to unpack the madness.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
This reminds me of a time on here where someone in a De Gea thread claimed that he should be setting up his walls to cover the longest route to goal.

I think @arnie_ni was with me trying to unpack the madness.
Click to expand...
I have a vague memory of this. Some people love reinventing the wheel
 
I completely agree with the OP and I've been saying it for years. Obviously it depends on the situation but use Messi's free kick vs Liverpool as an example. There shouldn't be a wall for that free. He's too far out, the wall does effect the keeper, he's not exactly gonna piledrive a free kick in from 30 yards when the keeper has time to set himself.

So players like Ward Prowse or Messi, if they're over 25 yards away from goal, no wall for me. I think most teams do it because others do. A bit like having all players defending from a corner, don't get me started on that.
 
I suspect this is a nice idea that just fails the reality test. Professional keepers practice shot stopping every day in training, including long range shots against Premier League quality attackers, both with and without walls, from lots of angles. They would figure out very quickly if they were finding it harder to save shots when the wall was there.
 
quadrant said:
I suspect this is a nice idea that just fails the reality test. Professional keepers practice shot stopping every day in training, including long range shots against Premier League quality attackers, both with and without walls, from lots of angles. They would figure out very quickly if they were finding it harder to save shots when the wall was there.
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They already have, that's why there's walls, and the keeper tells them what he wants and where
 
Rozay said:
And when the ball goes over it, he struggles to get there. That also happens too.
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It's hard to get the ball over the wall and still dip. Hard enough that most sides are comfortable with their current setups. If suddenly we see a glut of free kicks being scored in this fashion then the wall would change. I was surprised by Sterling's goal as well but this remains an anomaly for now.
 
adexkola said:
It's hard to get the ball over the wall and still dip. Hard enough that most sides are comfortable with their current setups. If suddenly we see a glut of free kicks being scored in this fashion then the wall would change. I was surprised by Sterling's goal as well but this remains an anomaly for now.
Click to expand...

I mean, of course. I’m just thinking out loud here, it’s clear that free-kicks are not scored every game. It’s hard to get the ball up and down. That said, if you DO manage to get it up and down, the chances of scoring are higher than they should be. I see free kicks beat goalkeepers without even going in the corner of the goal all the time.

I think there is a middle ground, and certainly right on the edge of the box, you need a wall. Van Persie scored a last minute winning free-kick for us at the Etihad from a position he almost certainly would have never beaten Joe Hart from if he simply wasn’t standing next to one of his posts. I don’t think they are needed as often as they are used personally. Yea, players don’t score free kicks every game, but they also don’t score from long range every game either. It would take a very special shot to beat a keeper from 30 yards ordinarily, whereas from a free kick, the biggest challenge is beating the wall. If you can manage that, you have a higher than normal chance of beating a keeper who is usually on the other side of his goal trying to get across.

If penalties were from 28 yards instead of 12 I imagine they will be invariably saved. Or missed.
 
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