The aim of this poll is to decide which team will win based on all players at their peaks.
TEAM NM
TEAM AldoRaine18
Decades Draft Tournament : NM vs AldoRaine18
- Thread starter Moby
- Start date
This is close but leaning towards Aldo at the moment. Like the extra work-rate in his side with Nedved and Gullit able to drop back & Muller a better goal scorer than Henry. Will wait to hear from NM though who does have more natural width and by far the better keeper.
I'm not going to vote until NM's given a chance to update his tactics.
NM's key defensive ability in midfield comes from Souness and there is evidence (video in my player profiles) of what happened when he met Zico. Liverpool at the prime of Paisley era got mauled 3-0 and Zico was the best player on the pitch.
He was given a chance, like everyone else but yeah he said he'll do it around evening UK time.
There's a kit clash as well. Aldo your boys'll need to change into this:
Yeah just saw that. It's a bit shit having a game with no tactics from one of the managers. Strongly leaning towards Congress for this one.
At first glance Aldo looks stronger but looking at NMs width against Aldos full backs, NM definitely can get joy.
To be fair the most joy any wide player will have in the game is Nedved against Dani Alves. He's a fish out of water when not played in Barca's tiki taka, displayed by how brutally he was raped by mediocre players at the last Copa America.
Moreover Rijkaard can do a job on Zidane here to a great extent leaving his wide players without much service. And as TITO said, all my players barring Muller are tremendous hard workers and would not fanny around when not in possession.
Lastly, Zidane has usually excelled with two DMs behind him doing the dirty work and giving him complete license, he only has one here who is already remembering his nightmare looking at Zico.
This is Alves in his peak who despite people always questioning his defensive abilities was very rarely caught out. You can mark Zidane all game but it still won't stop his wingers getting the ball, as if Celtics best ever player and blokhin are going to just stop because Zidane is being marked? I reckon you'd properly win but not by a landslide.
But his peak was in a particular system which is not the case here. As I said, during that very peak, whenever he played for Brazil where he didn't have 70% possession and he was one on one with tricky players he didn't have an answer. You can watch the highlights of the last Copa America and you will see where I am coming from.
Let's not start going into a tangent with how a player is Celtic's greatest and all, all players in this draft are close to the all the greats level so mentioning all this is a bit pointless. Also that "at their peak" argument goes for all players and Zambrotta was any day better defensively than Alves at his peak. I never said his players won't touch the ball just that they'll have a lot less than they would like.
NM has the worst fullback and center back on the pitch out of both defenses.
Voted, good work lads
This should be closer IMO, though I'm leaning towards aldo at the moment too. NM has by far the best defender on the pitch, goalkeeper is a match winner in himself, and his players are better in possession IMO.
Gullit and and Nedved on the wings are very useful to have though.
Gullit and and Nedved on the wings are very useful to have though.
Sorry Aldo, but with no rival manager around I have to pick on you here:
1) How do you feel about Blokhin on your right? If Rijkaard is indeed onto Zidane at all times, I reckon you are getting raped there. Less so, on the left.
2) With that oncoming Soviet freight train, Henry's and Johnstone's movement will give your defence some real headaches.
3) I'm a bit worried your entire attacking transition seems to rely on Billy Bremner.
I like your front four though. It's clear the key to the game is there.
1) How do you feel about Blokhin on your right? If Rijkaard is indeed onto Zidane at all times, I reckon you are getting raped there. Less so, on the left.
2) With that oncoming Soviet freight train, Henry's and Johnstone's movement will give your defence some real headaches.
3) I'm a bit worried your entire attacking transition seems to rely on Billy Bremner.
I like your front four though. It's clear the key to the game is there.
Tactics: Aldo, please post this in the first post please:
NM Tactics:
My defense is fire and ice. Figueroa is one of the best defenders that ever lived, and easily the best defender in the entire draft. I would fancy him alone to take care of Muller, and having JT there is really a bonus. Muller will get no joy.
Nedved might get some joy against Alves, but he also has to track back. One slip from him, and Alves is through to set up delicious 2 vs 1 opportunities on the flank. On the other wing, I don’t need to talk much about Lizarazu. He was just a complete fullback. I’d fancy my team to keep Aldo quiet.
In midfield, Rijkaard will have to mark Zidane. Maybe he can slow Zizou down, but all Zizou has to do is ping the ball wide. My wingers will tear his fullbacks a new one, especially as Rijkaard, and probably Bremner too, will focus of Zidane. This also allows Suarez to control the game from deep, before making calculated forward runs and ending up in the box unmarked. I would fancy him to score, as I reckon Aldo’s midfield would be too Zizou focused.
Up top, I reckon Henry will get joy. I reckon Aldo will sit deep to nullify him, but there has been no proven strategy to nullify Henry. Especially with the likes of Zidane behind him. Sit deep, but Henry is more than about just getting in behind. He will pick up the ball and run at you. Add that to his brilliant positioning, and sitting deep will probably just result in Henry getting into better positions to shoot.
I actually reckon Blokhin will be my key man here. I’d fancy him to rip Aldo’s RB a new one. His fullback probably won’t get much protection either, and if he does, it will give Zidane more room. I reckon that my players are much better positioned to exploit his weakness that he is mine.
Please excuse typos!!
NM Tactics:
My defense is fire and ice. Figueroa is one of the best defenders that ever lived, and easily the best defender in the entire draft. I would fancy him alone to take care of Muller, and having JT there is really a bonus. Muller will get no joy.
Nedved might get some joy against Alves, but he also has to track back. One slip from him, and Alves is through to set up delicious 2 vs 1 opportunities on the flank. On the other wing, I don’t need to talk much about Lizarazu. He was just a complete fullback. I’d fancy my team to keep Aldo quiet.
In midfield, Rijkaard will have to mark Zidane. Maybe he can slow Zizou down, but all Zizou has to do is ping the ball wide. My wingers will tear his fullbacks a new one, especially as Rijkaard, and probably Bremner too, will focus of Zidane. This also allows Suarez to control the game from deep, before making calculated forward runs and ending up in the box unmarked. I would fancy him to score, as I reckon Aldo’s midfield would be too Zizou focused.
Up top, I reckon Henry will get joy. I reckon Aldo will sit deep to nullify him, but there has been no proven strategy to nullify Henry. Especially with the likes of Zidane behind him. Sit deep, but Henry is more than about just getting in behind. He will pick up the ball and run at you. Add that to his brilliant positioning, and sitting deep will probably just result in Henry getting into better positions to shoot.
I actually reckon Blokhin will be my key man here. I’d fancy him to rip Aldo’s RB a new one. His fullback probably won’t get much protection either, and if he does, it will give Zidane more room. I reckon that my players are much better positioned to exploit his weakness that he is mine.
Please excuse typos!!
Hope they aren't any spelling or typos in that post. I'm out now.
Heck, all my points are ignoring Schmeichel. I should start 1-0 up as he will certainly save a goal or two that Aldo's keeper won't. Best keeper in the draft! I didn't think I needed to mention him on a United board!
NM does have brilliant wingers, against a couple of good but not great (IMO) full backs. The point about Rijkaard being occupied by Zidane is a good one too..
Bump. Aldo, when you are online, please update the OP.
That's a shit partnership if there ever was one. Fire melts ice => ice becomes water => water puts out fire => Aldo scores for fun in a rather muddy pitch
1) Not at all getting raped. Firstly Blokhin was more of a wing forward and not some who would come deep a lot to get the ball so if NM's midfield gets dominated and fails to deliver service, which it would be IMO, he impact would be lowered. Secondly, Bergmark was quite pacy himself so he would not be troubled by Blokhin's pace and would follow him around all over like a leech. Lastly, I have Gullit tracking back, his immense work rate would always be helpful in aiding the Swede if Blokhin ever gets dangerous. It is simple really, as I said Gullit and Nedved wouldn't be standing on the wings doing nothing when the team doesn't have the ball. They will drop as deep as necessary and help out. I do think you have underrated Bergmark here.
2) I don't see how, at least not to an extent that would worry me. I have played a deep backline particularly to congest those players who relish space. Henry used to love on to acres of space when Bergkamp would lob one up and he'd latch on to that, nothing of that sort is happening here. Hansen is one of the best readers of the game and a perfect man to anticipate such small movements in tight spaces to stop them. IMO without the space and the cover from midfield I should be able to curn their influence enough.
3) Not entirely relying on Bremner, when we don't have the ball all 3 of Zico, Gullit and Nedved would drop deep and defend and as soon as we win it back we would hit them. Bremner can ping them with ease as there'd be acres of space when the likes of Alves have committed themselves in attack while it can also be carried out. The fact that both wide players would run up and down the pitch all day without a problem helps this, and anyway Bremner was a more than a good passer who in fact was known more for his passing ability despite having a reputation of a thug.
At the end of the day, Despite NM having a lot of options in attack to trouble me, I think I have taken enough measures to curb him as much as possible while I don't see how he would be stopping me when I have the ball. Nedved against Alves is a mismatch. And once we dominate the midfield which I think we will and get a spell of attack going, their defense would be overcrowded and at any moment Muller has a 1v1 moment against Terry he's going to punish it. There's a good balance of creativity, goals and energy up there and most importantly, Zico is going have a lot better time than Zidane IMO which is going to be the decider.
Done buddy.
Nedved was also a brilliant winger IMO mate, and he is against the poorest fullback on the pitch who is proven to struggle when playing in a non tiki taka system.
About Rijkaard occupying Zidane, as I said with hard working wingers willing to more than help out, I am just going to have Rijkaard take out the heart of his team and leave his attack waiting for the ball most times in the game.
JT is not a bonus, if you put Figueroa on Muller the whole time, you have JT looking after Zico who is the best goal scoring attacking midfielder of all time. He will make countless runs in the box. And he possesses a great scoring technique, something a lot of top forwards would envy.
And the RB will get no protection? Why not? You think Gullit doesn't track back?
As for Henry, I am sitting deep to negate the pace threat he and Blokhin possess while also having a great reader of the game in Hansen to take care of their movement. Unlike me, you have no goal threat from midfield. Zidane would not attack the box like Zico does and has nowhere near a goal scoring record as Zico. So I actually have a more comfortable time at the back because I have a spare man ready to help out if you manage to out number them.
Figueroa is better than Baresi and Nesta, not 'easily' though, and Lizarazu is definitely better than 'decent'.
I probably have since I have no recollection of noticing him in the final against Brazil and wouldn't have come across him anywhere else AFAIK.
I'm primarily interested in what you are doing with Nedved and Gullit to be honest. I don't see them playing as wingers at all, but you keep coming back with them tracking back, Bremner pinging balls and Nedved owning Alves.
What I like about those two is indeed their dropping back when not in possession, but into a midfield four, and it follows (at least to me) that both of them would be handling the transition, more so than Bremner. If that is the case then I could see the service to Blokhin being severaly hampered and NM needing to revert to his original plan of a diamond to put more bodies in midfield. That's what he got those fullbacks for in the first place.
While I agree with those statememts, Cutch does have a point. Throwaway hyperbole/unsubstantiated comments like that don't do managers any favours.
True, but doing the same in retaliation is hardly worth it.
The transition would clearly not be one dimensional here. I had Effenberg in my plans before I went for Gullit and it was mainly because I needed someone with a good passing range alongside Rijkaard while also being great defensively. Bremner slotted right into that role so I picked him despite know I'd have to play a lesser known fullback/keeper. I made that sacrifice as I was pretty confident about Bremner's passing and playmaking ability. He has the range and accuracy to pick out players in advanced positions without much of a trouble. He's no Pirlo but he can do that to a pretty good level. But if you think that's a bit far fetched, the 3 behind Muller are all going to drop deep without much problem, get it back and carry it out.
About Bergmark, I wish I could have shown you some videos but I am still in India and have the worst internet connection possible. He was the best RB in that WC, probably because Djalma only played the final but after him he was the best of that time, at least that is what I have read so far. Plus the fact that his two most known qualities were man marking and pace, that really makes me think he would not be "raped" against Blokhin.
The only other info. I could find on him is that he was named in the Ballon d'Or rankings above the likes of Blanchflower and Boniperti in '58 but never appeared in there again. For all we know he could be another Josimar.
Agree, I preferred my fire and ice absurd scenario but no one laughed at it
I must've missed that?!
To be honest, Henry will probably drift a little to the left as well. Blokhin will probably move a little more central at the time. I can see that right fullback and CB pairing being really targeted by those two.
I also HATE to say this as I love Vidic, but I reckon Henry's pace will give him trouble too.
I also HATE to say this as I love Vidic, but I reckon Henry's pace will give him trouble too.
The editor of kicker magazine had good things to say about him, will try to search the link again. Remember it reading somewhere.
That's the problem with these all-time drafts. Every player from yore is painted as some sort of combination of Baresi, Matthaus and Ronaldo. If managers aren't credible enough to provide an accurate assessment of their players, it's hard to take any of their arguments seriously.
In saying that, I'm a big fan of Figueroa and Lizarazu, albeit there is a better French left-back who didn't even make the cut.