Decades Chain Draft - SF: Gio vs Himannv

[Physiocrat]

Gio

Himannv

Gio Tactics

WHAT ARE THE CHANGES?

• Simonsen comes into the side as part of a high-tempo front three. He has the two-way work rate to keep Facchetti busy, while posing plenty of questions with his own Ballon D'Or winning game. In particular I think he'd hit it off with Zico who should be on the same wavelength.
  
  
• Zico remains the main man. His partnership with Henry should have shades of the Bergkamp/Henry one. And he gets to float into the spaces around and just ahead of Godin and Chumpitaz where he can cause some problems. He has Silva supporting from midfield whose technique and selflessness always gets the best out of his team-mates.
  
  
• Demyanenko is introduced at left-back to up the ante on box-to-box dynamism. Both Zanetti and Demyanenko have the relentless work rate and all-round versatility to contribute in inside and outside channels, which helps to bring a 4-3-3 to life.
  
  
• Frank Rijkaard drops into the pivot role in midfield, helping to minimise the impact of Bergkamp. Roy Keane next to him provides serious midfield control. Both are total all-rounders, but there is a complementary in style between Rijkaard's cerebral leadership and Keane's high-octane drive.

Himannv Tactics

Tactics: 4-4-2

Ideas behind the team:

• Once I got Best in the first round, the idea was always to attack via the flanks so I logically followed it up with Facchetti and Beszonov who are flank-dominant attacking fullbacks. Getting Jinky later on added to that.
• I also wanted wingers who could switch flanks and still be effective, and I think I've managed that with Best and Jinky who can work either flank, play in an overlapping or underlapping fullback, or even play more centrally if the situation arises.
• I have to say that Romario was initially not part of my plans and my idea was to build a 4-3-3 but when I saw it was possible to pick him, I leapt at the chance. I wanted to have a more creative force alongside him or just behind him or around him and Bergkamp was just perfect for that role. It's incredible what a good touch Bergkamp has, and I think he may even be the best ever. His first touch is almost always made with his second and third touch in mind so he's always creating space for himself to then either pick a pass to a teammate or go for goal himself.
• After watching Best, Jinky, and Romario for a bit, it really strikes me how annoying it would be for a defence to face them. They're all great, pacy, dribblers who are constantly taking on their man and trying to beat them. I like the idea of players like this attacking with freedom with someone like Bergkamp, with his supremely gorgeous touch working with them.
• I went for Breitner early because I love how versatile he is and how he can pretty much do it all, from wing play, to attacking the box, to pinging long passes from the deep - the man has got it all. I paired him up with Makelele to give him the license to play while giving my backline some much-needed cover.
• If I was thinking about where my team's weaknesses lie, It'd probably be at the center of defence. Some may consider that Godin and Chumpitaz are not really as fancy a pairing as some of the other players in this competition, but I think they are a lovely pairing that makes up for each other's weaknesses. Godin's aerial superiority makes up for Chumpitaz's height, while Chumpitaz is lightning quick, which in turn makes up for Godin's comparative lack of pace.
• Prior to picking Chumpitaz in the time period that I did, I watched a few compilations of him in 77/78 and he looked very quick, showed great reading of the game, and timed his tackles to perfection. What stood out, even more, was how good he was on the ball and his long passing and general ball-playing skills were excellent without venturing too far forward. Once again, it provides a nice combination with Godin who sometimes carried the ball forward when he got the chance.

Cool fecking videos:

Best in 69


Mostly played on the left but shows he can also play on the right and also has an impact centrally. He works his socks off a fair bit and he's definitely not afraid of getting stuck in.

Romario in 92/93


Shows his pace and clearly has glue on his boots to make the ball stick to it. He's a bit of a handful with his propensity to turn and run at defenders.

Jinky in 71


Not his best game but shows how he operates. left wing, right wing, central presence, constantly trying to beat his man, overlapping but also underlapping.

Chumpitaz in 77


Shows off his speed at times, but also his ability to read the game and ball-playing skills.

 

[Physiocrat]

@Himannv @Gio

Game on!

Also Gio please send another formation graphic this time with the player years shown.

 

[Gio]

@Himannv @Gio

Game on!

Also Gio please send another formation graphic this time with the player years shown.

Will do, just need to get on a laptop. Here are the peaks:

Ronnie Hellstrom - 74/75 to 78/79

Javier Zanetti - 99/00 to 03/04
Anatoliy Demyanenko - 79/80 to 83/84
Bobby Moore - 69/70 to 73/74
Jurgen Kohler - 89/90 to 93/94

Frank Rijkaard - 84/85 to 88/89
Roy Keane - 94/95 to 98/99
David Silva - 09/10 to 13/14

Zico - 78/79 to 83/84
Thierry Henry - 04/05 to 08/09
Allan Simonsen - 74/75 to 78/79

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

That looks weird for peak Henry but I guess its to fit in Zanetti.

 

[Synco]

Anatoliy Demyanenko - 79/80 to 83/84
Allan Simonsen - 74/75 to 78/79

I may get this wrong, but wasn't it Simonsen 80-84 and Dem 85-89? I think you continued the chain last RR after Hellström 75-79? (Sorry if I should be messing up here, but that's at least how I understood it.)

 

[Gio]

I may get this wrong, but wasn't it Simonsen 80-84 and Dem 85-89? I think you continued the chain last RR after Hellström 75-79? (Sorry if I should be messing up here, but that's at least how I understood it.)

No, I probably wasn’t clear, but that wasn’t possible as Barca are blocked for me so Simo was Monchengladbach late 70s.

 

[Synco]

No, I probably wasn’t clear, but that wasn’t possible as Barca are blocked for me so Simo was Monchengladbach late 70s.

Cheers, I'm easily confused by this stuff.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Nice to see Breitner given free rein to run He-man's midfield, and both the front two and (obviously) the Facchetti/Best wing look great, but Gio just looks insurmountably strong here.

There's precious little in the way of discussion here, so tell us a bit about Moore during this 69-74 period if you can @Gio . He was clearly still at the peak of his powers at WC 70, seemed to have entered into swift decline by 1974, but how was he in those early 70s seasons?

 

[Gio]

Nice to see Breitner given free rein to run He-man's midfield, and both the front two and (obviously) the Facchetti/Best wing look great, but Gio just looks insurmountably strong here.

There's precious little in the way of discussion here, so tell us a bit about Moore during this 69-74 period if you can @Gio . He was clearly still at the peak of his powers at WC 70, seemed to have entered into swift decline by 1974, but how was he in those early 70s seasons?

Good question as I certainly mulled over which decade to use considering the same thing. His Ballon D’Or rankings felt pretty persuasive.

1966 - 4th
1968 - 22nd
1970 - 2nd (narrowly to Muller)
1971 - 10th (2nd defender behind Beckenbauer)
1972 - 7th (as above)
1973 - 19th

So yes certainly a drop off by 1973 - which I’d support based on the footage I’ve seen - but comparatively more recognition for his performances during the 69-74 period.

This is backed up by Eric Batty’s admittedly eccentric but certainly authentic annual world XIs. Moore makes the team in 1968, 1969, 1971, 1972 and 1973. No team was published in 1970 but we can imagine he’d have been a cast iron certainty based on his World Cup exploits. That gives him an unbroken run from 68-73 with the bulk of those years falling in the 69-70 to 73-74 period.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Good stuff @Gio . Cheers. Certainly seems like he was at the top of his game for the large majority of his timeframe, which makes that partnership with Kohler formidable and probably the most obvious difference in quality between the two teams.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Not perfect both teams. For Gio, I don't know what Keane is doing in a false 9 based 4-3-3. For Himannv, Best/Jinky/Breitner is way too aggressive considering Bergkamp/Romario shall also offer little to nothing off the ball. Besides, I have never been super impressed with Breitner's off the ball defensive game.

You swap Keane and Breitner and both the teams become perfect.

As it stands, I am giving this to Gio. Himmanv's team looks tasty from a draft point of view, but I don't expect to see sides like that in real life. More often than not, they will get overrun in the big European games.

 

[Synco]

Bergkamp/Romario shall also offer little to nothing off the ball.

My impression from random games is that Bergkamp was an active defender there, and actually quite physical/slightly nasty.

But tbf, most of that was Ajax/Inter/NL from before the Arsenal period here. What do folks say about that phase of his career?

 

[harms]

You could see the drop off in quality of his general performances around 1972-73, I remember it after I was doing the career compilation for Moore. He never was fast but maybe it was the speed of reaction or something, but he started allowing the opposition things that he didn't earlier.

The Poland 2:0 game would be the best (worst?) example of it — the first goal which is either Moore's own-goal or Banaś' goal (I think eventually they gave it to Cristiano) but anyway he let him in behind and then Lubański dispossessed him for the second. Džajić also got the better of him in 1972... basically the kind of mistakes that were almost impossible to imagine by peak Moore (alright, they still happened but it was an extremely rare occasion) started creeping in.




Edit: it certainly wouldn't be too big of a problem considering that he has Kohler & Demyanenko on either side of him and Rijkaard ahead.

 

[Himannv]

But tbf, most of that was Ajax/Inter/NL from before the Arsenal period here. What do folks say about that phase of his career?

I didn't want to comment about it until after the game but it's an interesting one. I watched a whole lot of Ayala compilations over the course of this draft (probably deserves a post of it's own) and the best team I saw him play against was probably Arsenal, which is saying something since the other teams were United, Real, Marseille, Germany, Roma, etc.

That Arsenal team was just poetry in motion for most part and generally seemed like they'd be a handful for any defence to deal with even when they didn't have the ball. They were constantly closing down opposition players and defending as a team. While I think Henry and Pires were probably the more direct threat, I think Bergkamp did his part as well and they worked very well as a unit. It was just very clear to me how clever he was and constantly looked for options to make runs forward, while also covering his man and doing his part. He was even directing the man-marking at times and generally sees the play very well. He's generally played every position while at Ajax (because total football) and even commented that it made him a better player to understand how a defender thinks, while his time at Inter made him a tougher player. He's clearly not Carlos Tevez or something, but he's ok defensively I reckon.

This is the compilation I was referring to:



The Bergkamp compilations I watched all show his attacking skills, which is understandable because he's fantastic.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I didn't want to comment about it until after the game but it's an interesting one. I watched a whole lot of Ayala compilations over the course of this draft (probably deserves a post of it's own) and the best team I saw him play against was probably Arsenal, which is saying something since the other teams were United, Real, Marseille, Germany, Roma, etc.

That Arsenal team was just poetry in motion for most part and generally seemed like they'd be a handful for any defence to deal with even when they didn't have the ball. They were constantly closing down opposition players and defending as a team. While I think Henry and Pires were probably the more direct threat, I think Bergkamp did his part as well and they worked very well as a unit. It was just very clear to me how clever he was and constantly looked for options to make runs forward, while also covering his man and doing his part. He was even directing the man-marking at times and generally sees the play very well. He's generally played every position while at Ajax (because total football) and even commented that it made him a better player to understand how a defender thinks, while his time at Inter made him a tougher player. He's clearly not Carlos Tevez or something, but he's ok defensively I reckon.

This is the compilation I was referring to:



The Bergkamp compilations I watched all show his attacking skills, which is understandable because he's fantastic.

tough score. Your team was beautifully constructed.

 

[Himannv]

tough score. Your team was beautifully constructed.

Cheers. I think I was always going to lose this. @Gio has built an amazing team and I really liked the tweaks he did this round to the formation and tactics.

 

[Gio]

I didn't want to comment about it until after the game but it's an interesting one. I watched a whole lot of Ayala compilations over the course of this draft (probably deserves a post of it's own) and the best team I saw him play against was probably Arsenal, which is saying something since the other teams were United, Real, Marseille, Germany, Roma, etc.

Would be interesting to get your perspective on him.

At the time I ranked him as good as any defender in the world. He led the Valencia defence which, for me, was comfortably the best and most consistent in the world for a number of seasons. Like a magnet in the air, and managed his relative lack of pace by good positioning (the passage of play around 3.08 above is class) and his dynamism in the challeng. In retrospect Nesta would have been a bit more polished, but Ayala does seem to have slipped off the radar, maybe not helped by a comparatively unfashionable club and no major international success.

 

[Himannv]

Would be interesting to get your perspective on him.

At the time I ranked him as good as any defender in the world. He led the Valencia defence which, for me, was comfortably the best and most consistent in the world for a number of seasons. Like a magnet in the air, and managed his relative lack of pace by good positioning (the passage of play around 3.08 above is class) and his dynamism in the challeng. In retrospect Nesta would have been a bit more polished, but Ayala does seem to have slipped off the radar, maybe not helped by a comparatively unfashionable club and no major international success.

For some reason I thought I already replied to this. But yeah, here it is:

• He's incredible in the air and has a great leap on him. Although he's not 6 feet tall, he's immense in the air and times his headers brilliantly.
• In almost all the videos I watched, his positioning was exceptional. Whether he was stepping off his line to make a block or tackle or cleaning up after some other play went down, he just seemed to read the game really well and was always one step ahead in terms of his decision-making in terms of positioning.
• I get the impression that he was quicker when he was a bit younger as the more recent the game, the less he seemed to sprint after the ball, while he was reasonably quick in my view in the early 2000s videos.
• I think he was an average passer and certainly not bad, but in this case, it's slightly opposite to the above point as he seemed to get better with age and made more long passes and looked to spread the play and create a bit more later on in his career, while he was more than happy with a short pass to move the play along when he was younger and didn't spend much time on the ball in general.
• The timing of his tackles were excellent and the best one was taking the ball off Giggsy when he was in full flight. That was just an incredible bit of timing to pick up the ball off the opponent's feet when he was moving at some pace.
• He's a slightly dirty player and not above a few sneaky fouls if he can get away with it.
• The biggest complaint I have is his clearances all had an element of chance in them as he got himself into the perfect position to intercept the ball and interrupt the play, only to clear it straight to an opposition player. It's the one area where you can see the real value of a stopper like Vidic over him as Vida would always put it out of play or away from an opposition player and give his team enough time to recover shape, etc. Ayala got his foot to the ball by reading the game well and using his instinct but lacked the control or foresight to determine what happened after he did that.