Current NBA Draft QF1 - syrian_scholes vs DesiBD/OB

Who will win based on the current ability of these teams?

  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .

Moby

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Welcome to the first game of the Current players NBA draft. Please select the winning team based on the listed players' current ability and form during the last two seasons.

Team syrian_scholes​

1. Harden 2. Davis 3. Lowry 4. Marc Gasol 5. Andrew Wiggins 6.Nicolas Batum 7. Reggie Jackson 8. Victor Oladipo 9. Zach Randolph 10. Greg Monroe
Starters:
Lowry, Harden, Batum, Davis, Marc Gasol
Sixth man: Reggie Jackson
Bench order by mintutes:
Wiggins
Monroe
Z-Bo
Oladipo
I have an excellent shooting team with both Harden and Lowry handling the ball
On D Batum and Lowry to cover a bit for Hardens poor defense with excellent rim protection by Gasol and Davis, on attack the pick and roll will be other worldly between Lowry-Gasol and Harden-Davis, Batum is also a good shooter and a very underrated player, on the bench I brough scorer in Oladipo, Wiggins and Reggie Jackson, with Z-Bo providing excellent veteran experience and being still very good on both end of the floor, and since it's about current season it's worth mentioning Harden having 12+ assist per game, both Harden and Davis among scoring leaders, and Wiggins has a 50+% 3 point shooting, this team will also draws a lot of foul with Harden and Wiggins being able to do that very well, I think I picked a good balanced team on both ends of the floor.

Since the category includes only the last 2 seasons I'd like to add that Harden has improved a lot on defense, yes he still has to improve on his defense but it is really improving, you can see his defensive howlers, but you don't see his good defensive work mentioned at all so I'll add a few videos to show case his defense:


Team DesiBD & OB​

STARTERS
Kevin Durant : One of the best scorers in the league. Was named in the All NBA Second Team 2016. Averages around 27 points, 7 rebounds, 4-5 assists, 1 steal and 1 block per game. (stats are approx, and of last two seasons only). Shot over 50% from the field, and over 39% from 3 point range.

Blake Griffin : Our PF. He was named in All NBA Third team 2015. Averages around 21 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists, 0.5 blocks, and 0.5 steals. He also shot 50% from the field. He has really improve his jumpshot, and that has added another threat to his game.

Hassan Whiteside : Our rim protector. Averages 13 points, 3.15 blocks, 0.6 steals, and almost 11 rebouds per game. 60% FG. Led the league in blocks last season. Was named in NBA All Defensive Second Team 2016. Certainly improved his 2k rating. lol

Avery Bradley : Great defender. Named in NBA All Defensive First Team 2016. Averaged around 14 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal per game in the last two seasons. Shot 43% from field and 35% from distance.

Wall: One of the best playmakers in the league. Has averaged a double double the past two seasons in points and assists. Although he missed the playoffs last year, Wall took his team to the 2nd round after sweeping the Raptors where the Wizards took the 60 win Hawks to 6 games before elimination. Named in NBA All Defensive Second Team 2015. Averages almost 19 points, 10 assists, 4.8 rebounds, and 1.8 steals. 43% FG and 33% 3P.

BENCH

Derrick Favors : Averages 16 points, 8 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 1 steal, and 1.6 blocks per game. FG% is 51%.

Khris Middleton : Averages 15.5 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists, 1.5 steals. 45% from the field, and 40% from distance.

Rudy Gay : Averages 19 points, 6 rebounds, 2.7 assist, 1 steal, and 0.6 blocks per game. 45% from field and 35%from 3.

Jonas Valanciunas : 12 points, 9 rebounds, 1 block per game. FG% is 56%.

Rajon Rondo : Averages over 10 points, 5 rebounds, 9 assist, 1.7 steals per game. Led in assists last season with almost 12 assists per game. 44% FG, and 35% 3P%

Note - All achievements are of last two seasons, and all stats are of last two seasons. The averages are done in mind, and mostly rounded off.

MATCH-UPS:
Wall on Lowry. Wall is a good defender and has the size advantage on Lowry.
Bradley on Harden. One of the best perimeter defenders will guard The Beard. Can keep up with Harden all game.
KD on Davis. Better defender than Griffin and has the wingspan to make things tough for AD.
Griffin on Wiggins.
Whiteside on Gasol. Should win the battle on the boards.

STRATEGY:
A well balanced team that can turn it up on both sides of the ball if needed. This team will play similarly to Rivers' Clippers with hardnosed defence and pick&roll offence with two quality bigs in Griffin and Whiteside. Pick and roll action with Wall, Griffin and Whiteside along with KD's excellent scoring ability is a tough matchup for any team. If more shooting is needed, Middleton will play.
 
Ok adding team individual stats like my opponent did:
Lowry: Averaging 19.9 pts, 5.5 rebounds, 7.2 assists, 1.7 steals, 0.4 blocks
Harden: averaging 28.6 pts, 7.8 rebounds, 12.4 assists, 1.2 steals, 0.3 blocks
Batum: 14.1 points, 6.5 rebounds, 5.0 assists, 1.3 steals, 0.5 blocks
Davis 31.7 points, 11.5 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 1.9 steals, 3 blocks
Gasol 17.2 points, 6 rebounds, 3.9 assists, 0.7 steals, 1.4 blocks
Bench
Wiggins: 24.8 points, 2.2 assists, 4.4 rebounds, 0.4 steals, 0.5 blocks
Reggie Jackson: 18.8 points, 6.2 assists, 3.2 rebounds, 0.7 steals, 0.1 blocks
Oladipo: 16.9 points, 4.1 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 0.8 steals, 0.2 blocks
Monroe: 8.4 points, 6.2 reb, 2.2 assists, 1.3 steals, 0.5 blocks
Zach Randolph: 14.4 points, 7.9 rebounds, 1.0 assists, 0.4 steals
 
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Team Stats:

nba%20excel_zpspqhlzlsz.png
 
Hey, aren't these stats of the current season? I know its based on current ability ,but it said players would be judged based on last two seasons, so shouldn't we count that?
The stats would look different definitely. eg. Harden's assists are around 7 last two seasons. This seasons just started too.
I'm not saying the match is based on stats, but just wanted to clear if we would count last two seasons performances or this season too.
 
OB said:
Hey, aren't these stats of the current season? I know its based on current ability ,but it said players would be judged based on last two seasons, so shouldn't we count that?
The stats would look different definitely. eg. Harden's assists are around 7 last two seasons. This seasons just started too.
I'm not saying the match is based on stats, but just wanted to clear if we would count last two seasons performances or this season too.
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Yeah, I think they are just current season. I just copied what SS wrote tbh :D.

I believe the draft OP said it would be last two seasons. I'm not even sure if this season is supposed to count.
 
Akshay said:
Yeah, I think they are just current season. I just copied what SS wrote tbh :D.

I believe the draft OP said it would be last two seasons. I'm not even sure if this season is supposed to count.
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Wasn't specified anywhere, just said performances over the last two seasons which our picks for this team are based on.

EDIT: Actually Aldo says current ability as well
 
Akshay said:
Yeah, I think they are just current season. I just copied what SS wrote tbh :D.

I believe the draft OP said it would be last two seasons. I'm not even sure if this season is supposed to count.
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DesiBD said:
Wasn't specified anywhere, just said performances over the last two seasons which our picks for this team are based on.

EDIT: Actually Aldo says current ability as well
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The draft was started a day before the start of this season so this season's performances shouldn't come into the picture.

The assessment was going to be based primarily on current ability being supported by performances over last two seasons. So if you are using stats they should be of last two seasons.
 
Aldo said:
The draft was started a day before the start of this season so this season's performances shouldn't come into the picture.

The assessment was going to be based primarily on current ability being supported by performances over last two seasons. So if you are using stats they should be of last two seasons.
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Thanks for clarifying.

What happened to the other draft matches?
 
I will elaborate a bit on why Desi's team will win.

Harden is a ball dominant player. A great one but still ball dominant. Since he went from 6th man with great per-minute numbers in OKC to superstar in Houston, he has played with 3 point guards. Jeremy Lin, Patrick Beverley and Ty Lawson. Lin in 13 and 14 had usage rates of 21% and 20%. Harden in those years had usage rates of 29% and 28%. Lin left in 15, Harden's usage shot up to 31% and he finished 2nd in MVP voting while Lin's replacement (Beverley) had a usage rate of 16%. The Rockets brought in high usage point guard Ty Lawson the next year (21% in Denver) and his usage dropped to 15% in Houston while the team was a disaster. The Rockets learned from this and in 2016 they actually made James Harden the point guard. It's clear the Harden needs the ball in his hands to be a star. Fans learned this, the coaching staff learned this, so why is Syrian Scholes putting him with Kyle Lowry, another player who needs the ball to be effective. Here is Lowry's progression throughout his career from journeyman to star once the Raptors made him the focus of the offense.

S1klxqV.png
 
Gasol and Davis are good but when you play two pure big men, you need spacing. I don't see how Andrew Wiggins (who was a below average 3 point shooter in the seasons supposed to be considered in this draft) provides that. Oladipo and Jackson are both subpar shooters, Randolph is another space clogger and Greg Monroe is practically useless in the modern NBA. This team will be decent on defense thanks to the big men but has no spacing and too many players who are useless without the ball in their hands.
 
Eboue said:
I will elaborate a bit on why Desi's team will win.

Harden is a ball dominant player. A great one but still ball dominant. Since he went from 6th man with great per-minute numbers in OKC to superstar in Houston, he has played with 3 point guards. Jeremy Lin, Patrick Beverley and Ty Lawson. Lin in 13 and 14 had usage rates of 21% and 20%. Harden in those years had usage rates of 29% and 28%. Lin left in 15, Harden's usage shot up to 31% and he finished 2nd in MVP voting while Lin's replacement (Beverley) had a usage rate of 16%. The Rockets brought in high usage point guard Ty Lawson the next year (21% in Denver) and his usage dropped to 15% in Houston while the team was a disaster. The Rockets learned from this and in 2016 they actually made James Harden the point guard. It's clear the Harden needs the ball in his hands to be a star. Fans learned this, the coaching staff learned this, so why is Syrian Scholes putting him with Kyle Lowry, another player who needs the ball to be effective. Here is Lowry's progression throughout his career from journeyman to star once the Raptors made him the focus of the offense.

S1klxqV.png
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See Ty Lawson wasn't the same player when he went to the Rockets and you can see that from his time post Rockets as well, and then you say Bev is a PG, he doesn't have the skills to be the point guard and ball dominant player, he doesn't have the passing skills or creating shots skills that Harden has, I believe next to skillful PG, Harden will thrive, Bev now is playing as SG and. He is just a D and 3 player, other than that it gives more options to the team, it can now run the P&R effeciently with two sets of players, shoot the 3 with 5 players able to shoot the 3 in a good % and the rim protection is pretty good on the team as well, also Harden needs a good defensive player next to him and imo Lowry is that.
 
As for Desi's team, I am really not a fan of Rondo or Gay at all. If they see the floor for double digit minutes, it's a bad sign for their team. I love the starting lineup though. Very well balanced. Whiteside provides defense but the spacing problems he causes are alleviated by Griffin's great passing and range for a big man. Griffin also is used to playing with a similar player in DeAndre Jordan. Avery Bradley is a great pick and he's actually the type of player who would work very well next to Harden in the backcourt. Instead he is going to hound Harden all game and save his energy on offense where he is only asked to be a spot up shooter. In Wall, Griffin and Durant you have three players who can be the ball man on a pick and roll and 2 of them who are elite at creating their own offense. John Wall had made successful offensive players out of Gortat and decrepit Paul Pierce, I'm confident he can create enough open looks for Valanciuanus, Whiteside, Bradley and Favors. Kris Middleton is another great pick. Allows the team to play small or big on a whim and can do everything pretty well.
 
syrian_scholes said:
See Ty Lawson wasn't the same player when he went to the Rockets and you can see that from his time post Rockets as well, and then you say Bev is a PG, he doesn't have the skills to be the point guard and ball dominant player, he doesn't have the passing skills or creating shots skills that Harden has, I believe next to skillful PG, Harden will thrive, Bev now is playing as SG and. He is just a D and 3 player, other than that it gives more options to the team, it can now run the P&R effeciently with two sets of players, shoot the 3 with 5 players able to shoot the 3 in a good % and the rim protection is pretty good on the team as well, also Harden needs a good defensive player next to him and imo Lowry is that.
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But Harden's best years came with Beverley next to him. Beverley took the toughest defensive matchup every night and deferred to Harden on offense. If you use Lowry in that role, it's a massive waste of what Lowry is good at. Lowry is a good defender but not as good as Beverley and his main value is as a scorer and a creator. If you turn him into James Harden's sidekick, he will be worse then Beverley was at that role. And you can't not turn him into Harden's sidekick. Harden is a premier offensive player, you need to give him the ball almost every time down the court.
 
Eboue said:
But Harden's best years came with Beverley next to him. Beverley took the toughest defensive matchup every night and deferred to Harden on offense. If you use Lowry in that role, it's a massive waste of what Lowry is good at. Lowry is a good defender but not as good as Beverley and his main value is as a scorer and a creator. If you turn him into James Harden's sidekick, he will be worse then Beverley was at that role. And you can't not turn him into Harden's sidekick. Harden is a premier offensive player, you need to give him the ball almost every time down the court.
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Fair enough, I think it gives me options but noted, maybe using Oladipo next to Harden and keeping Lowry as the sixth man is a better option but I still think my team is too good offensively to lose, and I also think it's pretty good defensively, and not getting the best out of lowery doesn't mean he isn't getting used effectively and effeciently imo.
 
Eboue said:
As for Desi's team, I am really not a fan of Rondo or Gay at all. If they see the floor for double digit minutes, it's a bad sign for their team. I love the starting lineup though. Very well balanced. Whiteside provides defense but the spacing problems he causes are alleviated by Griffin's great passing and range for a big man. Griffin also is used to playing with a similar player in DeAndre Jordan. Avery Bradley is a great pick and he's actually the type of player who would work very well next to Harden in the backcourt. Instead he is going to hound Harden all game and save his energy on offense where he is only asked to be a spot up shooter. In Wall, Griffin and Durant you have three players who can be the ball man on a pick and roll and 2 of them who are elite at creating their own offense. John Wall had made successful offensive players out of Gortat and decrepit Paul Pierce, I'm confident he can create enough open looks for Valanciuanus, Whiteside, Bradley and Favors. Kris Middleton is another great pick. Allows the team to play small or big on a whim and can do everything pretty well.
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They're deep end bench players. Despite Rondo's obvious flaws, he's still a good playmaker and can run the offense while Wall rests. When the defence will starts giving him space, that's when Middleton will take over and Rondo will be a spotup shooter (shot 37.2% on catch and shoot 3s last season). He won't see the floor too much as Wall will play most of the minutes.

Gay is still a great scorer in the league. Will only play if offense becomes stagnant.
 
syrian_scholes said:
Fair enough, I think it gives me options but noted, maybe using Oladipo next to Harden and keeping Lowry as the sixth man is a better option but I still think my team is too good offensively to lose, and I also think it's pretty good defensively, and not getting the best out of lowery doesn't mean he isn't getting used effectively and effeciently imo.
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Now you're turning them into the Thunder with James Harden playing the Westbrook role except he doesn't have Westbrook's defensive skills and you see how well that seems to be working for the Thunder this year.
 
charlton66 said:
Now you're turning them into the Thunder with James Harden playing the Westbrook role except he doesn't have Westbrook's defensive skills and you see how well that seems to be working for the Thunder this year.
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But I'm not, I'm convinced that Lowry and Harden can't work well together, and Westbrook isn't that good a defender btw.
 
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syrian_scholes said:
Batum is an excellent defender that's why he is starting and Wiggins isn't.
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Stats from their latest matchup:

http://www.basketball-reference.com...id2_select=Nicolas+Batum&player_id2=batumni01

They've only played against each once in the last two seasons and KD dropped 26/5/5 that game while Batum didn't score at all. His statline for that game: 0/3/6.

Small sample size I know, but as you can see in the link, KD has the clear advantage every time they matchup and Batum hardly stops him.
 
DesiBD said:
Stats from their latest matchup:

http://www.basketball-reference.com...id2_select=Nicolas+Batum&player_id2=batumni01

They've only played against each once in the last two seasons and KD dropped 26/5/5 that game while Batum didn't score at all. His statline for that game: 0/3/6.

Small sample size I know, but as you can see in the link, KD has the clear advantage every time they matchup and Batum hardly stops him.
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As does Harden vs Bradley, you can't stop great offensive players like Harden and Durant from scoring, you can slow them down a bit though, and that's what Batum and Bradley are for.
 
And 25/5/5 is below Durants average, Batum is in no way a dependable scorer and so is Bradley, they have the same job here.
 
syrian_scholes said:
As does Harden vs Bradley, you can't stop great offensive players like Harden and Durant from scoring, you can slow them down a bit though, and that's what Batum and Bradley are for.
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That's true, but in the last two seasons, Bradley has succeeded in keeping Harden in check. Out of 3 games, Harden went off once while Bradley held him to 14 and 16 pts respectively in the other two games. In one of them, Bradley even scored 21 pts on 57% shooting. If there's a guard in the league who gives Harden trouble, it's Bradley. Can't say the same about Batum and KD.

http://www.basketball-reference.com...id2_select=Avery+Bradley&player_id2=bradlav01
 
syrian_scholes said:
But I'm not, I'm convinced that Lowry and Harden work well together, and Westbrook isn't that good a defender btw.
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Which is then Lowry/Harden or Oladipo/Harden? As to Russ's defense, he's no Kawhi Leonard for sure but the thing about Russ is that it's all about coaching. His problem is that he gambles incessantly and often takes plays off. If you can actually get him to buckle down he's decent IMHO. However this is about James Harden's defense not Westbrook's and if Westbrook takes plays off Harden takes off whole games.
 
charlton66 said:
Which is then Lowry/Harden or Oladipo/Harden? As to Russ's defense, he's no Kawhi Leonard for sure but the thing about Russ is that it's all about coaching. His problem is that he gambles incessantly and often takes plays off. If you can actually get him to buckle down he's decent IMHO. However this is about James Harden's defense not Westbrook's and if Westbrook takes plays off Harden takes off whole games.
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I already said what my starting line up is.
 
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