Criteria Draft Round 2 [QF] - EDogen vs Aldo

If all players were playing at their peaks, who would win this match?

  • Total voters
    31
  • Poll closed .

RoadTrip

petitioned for a just cause
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Team EDogen

I am playing a 4-4-1-1 formation.

Goalie

In goal I have Fransesco Toldo a dominant keeper with great shot-stopping ability and a big presence at the back.

Defenders
My central defenders are Carvalho and Gallas, Carvalho who is highly underrated made other defenders around him better players and this new partnership will have a nice mix of tough tackling, speed and a great reading of the game. My fullbacks, Evra and Petrescu are both solid defenders that also have great ability in going forward. They will form a constant threat together with the wingers of my team.

Midfielders
Who remember that Manchester United treble winning midfield from 1999? Well here I have 3 out of 4 members at my disposal. From right I will line up with Beckham, Keane, Scholes and finally Bale. Bale is coming in and will fit the formation really well with his work rate and individual brilliance. This is a true great midfield that is proven at the very highest level.

Attackers
Nedved, a complete player who I loved in that attacking midfield position. He could do it all with both feet and he will bring an extra dimension of individual brilliance for my team. Raul with the service from Beckham, Bale, Scholes and Nedved will score goals like he always did.

Defence: A rock solid back four in Evra – Carvalho – Gallas – Petrescu with Toldo as my anchor. They will also have support from a hard working midfield where Keane as my captain will dominate the game with tough tackling, aggression and passion. Bale and Beckham will help out my full backs and in the midfield battle as they have the stamina to run flag to flag for 120 minutes if needed. Keane and Scholes need two hard working wingers and they are very happy with having Bale and Becks with them. Also my forward players Raul and Nedved will start the pressing. Also Nedved was a high energy player who will help out in the midfield battle. And I feel sorry for the team that has to fight against Keane, Scholes and Nedved.

Attack: I have defenders that are capable with the ball at their feet that will have no problems getting the ball forward for my midfield players. Evra and Petrescu will provide offensive runs overlapping the wingers. This will give Beckham that extra time to get that perfect cross in and will give Bale an extra yard to either take on the defender on his own or send a cross in with his great left foot. My wing play will be exciting to watch and with Rauls movement and smartness I see that resulting in goals.

In the middle I have the legendary midfield combo of Scholes and Keane and if you are going by a two man midfield this are the guys you would want in there. Captain Keane will take on every midfield battle and few where the times when he did not come out as the king of the battle. Scholes will enjoy the width of the team when crossing for Bale and Beckham as well as the option to find Raul in behind the opposition defence.

Pavel Nedved, the latest recruit for my team will give me a new dimension with his directness, great shooting ability and speed. Nedved will roam around between the midfielders and the defenders and once on the ball he will be a nightmare for the defence with options out wide, Raul in front of him and his individual brilliance. As my number 9 and the man who will score most of my goals, I have Raul who could score from every possible kind of chance.

Some further comments and handling of Aldo´s team.

Keane and Scholes with Nedved in front of them, they will control the game.

Set pieces from Beckham always have a chance of resulting in a goal.

Bale and Nedved changing positions during the play, since Bale could drift in to unleash his powerful left foot Nedved can drift left out wide where he was just as good as central. This will confuse the defence with them facing new threats

Attacking Harte and Neville, Beckham and Petrescu against Harte will be a huge victory for me. Also Bale with PACE attacking with Evra in support will give problems for Neville who was not the fastest player around.

Raul with the supply will get chances and does not need many to score one or two.

Aldo´s lack of distribution from deep should be pointed out. His front players that are really good will not get the distribution they want since he is lacking in this area.

EDOGEN MAKES A CHANGE IN STYLE:

A 4-3-3 with Nedved and Bale attacking from their best positions.

Evra and Petrescu can provide the width.

Beckham more than capable of playing that role.

I am going all in attack.

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Team Aldo

The same formation as previous game, only Robin Van Persie is replaced by O Fenomeno, Ronaldo!


Th back four is a compact unit comprised of defenders tough as nails and no nonsense players. In Neville and Harte there are two fullbacks who enjoyed a distinguished career in the Premier League with Neville being the mainstay on the right side of the United defense for ages.

They would be flanking a mean and unforgiving duo of Marcel Desailly and Jaap Stam. Together the two of them are two well rounded center backs with Stam being the tough cnut not giving an inch to the opposition and bring blood, fire, steel, thunder and every destructive force you can think of while the Frenchman being the elegant and quick the react defender who will command the back 4 and thwart the dangers before it's too late. Both these defenders are physical specimens but that doesn't stop them from possessing quality technique while on the ball and being comfortable on it. Stam and Neville were also the part of our treble winning backline and would be happy to use their chemistry in further solidifying the unit.

They are protected by a midfield two of Javier Mascherano and Diego Simeone. Mascherano is a mean defensive midfielder who will provide important physical presence, tough tackling and marking and tracking ability good enough to frustrate the opposition attack. During his time at Barca he has developed his ball playing skills and is capable of contributing in attack but his job is to provide work rate, tenacity and be the real mad dog he is. Partnering another Argentine, Simeone would be playing as a box to box midfielder covering any gaps and recovering the ball quickly in defense and then using his drive and determination with powerful forward runs to take out players and create spaces. Together they will make sure they won't be getting overrun by anyone.

To take over the reigns from this unit and control the game throughout, is the Romanian "King", Hagi. A mercurial talent, a joy to watch and an absolute match winner, Hagi will act as the heart of the team, linking defense to attack and controlling the whole game. Incredibly hard to get off the ball, Hagi's creativity and vision was second to none, capable of playing defense splitting passes as well as constructing patient buildups with ease. To add to that he had a great strike in him. A master of delicate flicks, crisp short passes and intelligent movement off the ball both vertical and lateral made him very difficult to mark out of the game.

The two wide players, very different in their roles. On the right there is Mario Basler, a Beckham clone if you will, incredibly accurate crosser and passer with a fine technique on the ball to boot, give him any space and he will whip in some delicious balls. Also a creative force in his own right, he would combine with the midfield often.

Introducing..
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On the left is Rivaldo. A genuine match winner if there was one, Rivaldo's determination and desire combined with his tremendous ability on the ball both with the dribble, or bringing others into play or scoring unstoppable goals, Rivaldo is someone who can easily be the difference in a tight game, as he was in this memorable performance that is one of the best individual efforts in my time. A fabulous hat trick to keep Barca in Europe on the last day of the season. His contribution in the win for Brazil in 2002 WC was second to none. A free roaming player in this setup, he would be going on his typical mazy runs, beating defenders in 1v1s and dashing across the 18 yard box with his sudden burst of pace to create space for others or score some himself. A first touch that would make you drool, he was a magnificent talent.

And to end this show, we have Ronaldo. Not much to be said about him, he has a genuine claim to be the greatest striker of all time. Watching him play day in day out was an experience that cannot be repeated. Messi, Cristiano, and others are all great and have achieved more but the joy I got from watching the phenomenon was never repeated. He will be playing up front here, using his massive stature to run at defenders at alarming pace and scintillating ball control, which was almost impossible to stop by most defenders including greats like Nesta, Maldini, Thuram, Cannavaro.

In terms of tactics the team will continue to play a swift and direct style of play. We are NOT trying to park the bus and defend for 80 minutes, we will work hard and try to win the ball back quickly, not letting the opponent in dangerous areas near our goal and then break swiftly with the genius of Hagi, industry of Basler, flair and explosive spark of Rivaldo and destructive force of Ronaldo. The likes of Rivaldo and Ronaldo will pin back their defense, not allowing them to gain the control of midfield and also leaving huge spaces between midfield and defense, allowing Hagi to dictate play. Rivaldo should get a good amount of joy on his side facing Gallas and Petrescu. I like Petrescu and he had a good career but he was an attack oriented fullback, wingback even which would allow a lot of space behind him to run into. While Carvalho is a very solid defender, facing Ronaldo is a different prospect than he has usually faced and keeping him out for 90 minutes can be a bit of a task for him.

Mascherano and Simeone, the latter in particular would stay on the frontfoot in the game trying to stifle the opposition midfield duo and providing freedom and space for Hagi. IF Keane is instructed to stay on Hagi the whole game it cuts out a bit of the midfield strength and puts a bit of pressure on Scholes to combat against the two Argentinians.

We also have endless amount of options on set pieces. With Ronaldo's direct running at full pelt and Rivaldo's trickery there are bound to be some set pieces at interesting positions, and we'll bury one of them.
 
Re: Beckham exploiting Harte, Harte's weakness is the lack of pace which someone like Beckham wouldn't be exploiting much. He'll be still getting crosses away but in Desailly and Stam I have two aerially fantastic CBs who can cut them for most of the game.

IMO Petrescu + Gallas would have a tougher time against Rivaldo as both of them are not the greatest positionally and against a player as intelligent and skillful as Rivaldo you need a bit more discipline than those two. And as I said in the write up, no insult to Carvalho but if he's caught in constant 1v1s against Ronaldo the battle would be usually be going one way.
 
@rpitroda if you don't mind, could you please change the title to EDogen vs Aldo, as that would then match the order in the poll and the OP. Just to avoid any confusion.
 
I also don't like Nedved there. But then, I just don't see how Aldo feeds his attackers. It's much more of a weakness in this game then the last.
 
For sure a tight game this! Some more input from me.

I stand by that Harte will get problems with Beckham and this will result in many good balls coming into the penaly area. NOT necessarily in the air all the time since Stam and Desailly was great at heading. Beckham can find other options resulting in goal scoring opportunities. Harte will not get much help from Rivaldo so that means that Mascherano will have to help out leaving space in the middle for Nedved/Keane/Scholes to find. Remember that Keane and Scholes both were great at running into the opposition box.

Same thing on the other flank, I see a good match for Bale and Evra against Neville even though he will have help from Basler but Neville will struggle with the PACE of Bale, this also resulting in similar goal scoring opportunities as stated above.

Rivaldo and Ronaldo are for sure the main threat but on that side of the pitch that Rivaldo will play on I have Keane and Beckham who will do a BIG job in this game to try and reduce the impact of Rivaldo. On the other flank I feel quite good with Evra and Bale that hey will handle Basler and Neville so the midfield can focus more on helping out against Hagi and Rivaldo.

I mentioned earlier that I see a lack of distribution from deep in Aldo´s team with Simeone and Mascherano in midfield. This will result in that his front four will not get the game they would want to work with for the full 90 minutes.

I believe in that Keane and Scholes with Nedved in front of them will take control over the game and this resulting in more goal scoring opportunities for my team in the end.
 
rpitroda said:
I also don't like Nedved there. But then, I just don't see how Aldo feeds his attackers. It's much more of a weakness in this game then the last.
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I can see what you are saying but Nedved in this position will ask questions for Simeone and Mascherano which will result in more time for Scholes and Keane to control the game. I also wanted Bale with his pace against Neville.

And as you say, Harte and Neville will not have time to feed the attackers and Simeone and Mascherano are not the two players you would want for that.
 
EDogen said:
I can see what you are saying but Nedved in this position will ask questions for Simeone and Mascherano which will result in more time for Scholes and Keane to control the game. I also wanted Bale with his pace against Neville.

And as you say, Harte and Neville will not have time to feed the attackers and Simeone and Mascherano are not the two players you would want for that.
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Whilst I agree with what you're saying, I guess it's just disappointing to see Nedved there. He is devastating from the wing because of the pace, work rate, the way he can cut in and also go wide. I don't think he's anywhere near as much of a handful starting from there.
 
rpitroda said:
I also don't like Nedved there. But then, I just don't see how Aldo feeds his attackers. It's much more of a weakness in this game then the last.
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As explained in the OP the link up between defense and attack is to be controlled by Hagi. Given the amount of space between his midfield and defense, a prominent feature of the 99 United if I may add, hagi would enjoy a lot of the ball and feed the attack. After all, it was playmaking that was his forte, more than anything else. So it is bit ridiculous to say that despite having a playmaker of that quality the forwards won't get the ball.

I can understand I don't have a Scirea or a Koeman in defense but my defenders are being severely underrated in terms of ball playing ability. Stam was well comfortable on the ball to bring it out and Desailly was a step ahead of him. He used to bring it out of defense or midfield when he played as a DM, his goal in teh 94 CL final is an example of how he can control the ball and beat players, but otherwise as well throughout his career he was renowned for his ball playing ability.

You can say I may be lacking a direct over the top through ball or a diagonal something the likes of Koeman are good at but it's quite frankly inaccurate to say that my forwards won't see the ball. There are no duds, not in defense, not in midfield and then there's Hagi, running into open space.

Not to forget, I don't have a poacher playing up front who needs pin point through balls. I have one of the most complete and deadly strikers who can take the ball 30 odd yards from the goal and create a chance for himself or others. With him doing that consistently and taking on the likes of Gallas or Carvalho, it would surely result in goals.
 
Fenomeno!



Watch how he creates goals for himself out of absolutely nothing, bog standard passes. Now imagine what he will do with Hagi and Rivaldo doing the damage with him in tandem! :drool:
 
If I could draw a parallel I would say the Bayern team under Heynckes would not be too far from it. They had a DM and a Box to Box player and played high paced direct football with swift calculated and accurate buildups resulting in quick transitions. It's more or less what I have gone for, staying on the front foot and not letting his midfield any time on the ball and dealing straight punches. I want it to be an open game as it would be and with the United 99 model, the CBs of his team would be exposed and Stam is not on his side this time, and he's facing Fenomeno!
 
This is so tough. I've gone for Aldo, but I could easily have voted for EDogen. Just think if Keane got caught up field which is a possibility Aldo might just be able to break and score.
 
Hagi will control the game for him and this is assisted by the lack of a dedicated DM in the 4-4-2 formation. Esp with a Rivaldo/Ronaldo combo operating upfront, even Keane will have a tough time controlling the middle.

Wings are the best route to goal for Edogen, but with Maschemeone combo, it will be mitigated a lot. I predict a 1-0 victory for Aldo.

Voted for Aldo.
 
I've gone for Edogen but that front two doesn't work particularly well IMO. Similar problem to last time when Raul was partnered with Weah, the team has been crying out for a 30 goal a season number 9 to play ahead of Raul.

But yeah, tough game this but I think he'll get a lot of joy down the flanks and Harte sticks out in this company. With Nedved buzzing around Mascherano I can see Scholes seeing a lot of the ball and creating chances, whether it's spraying passes out to Bale to attack Neville or slipping 15 yard passes into the feet of Nedved or Raul.

Really close match.
 
Went with Aldo in the end. While I think both defences can be got at, I can see a much more potent threat with Aldo's front 4 than with edogen's attack. Edogen does have a tried and tested tactic, and has the players to play in their familiar roles, but I can see a slight edge on the attack from Ronaldo-Rivaldo-Hagi. Great match so far though....two great teams.
 
I voted for @EDogen because I think his team is more balanced than Aldo's team. Aldo has a brilliant front three but I am not convinced with their transition from defence to attack. Harte and Neville are hardly known for their attacking prowess, they are a decent option but you can't rely on them to provide enough impetus out wide. With a midfield duo of Mascherano and Simeone there is not enough creativity/ball playing ability to effectively transition from defense to attack. There would just be too much pressure on Hagi to pull the strings and solely provide the ammunition for their phenomenal forwards. If Keane manages to shut him down then I can see their whole team suffering from lack of supply.

I also think players like Bale and Nedved are not getting utilized to their maximum capability in Egoden's team. Nedved would thrive as a attacking left mid rather than a No 10 while Bale would be better suited playing on the right where he could cut in to his favoured left foot. A forward duo of Raul and Nedved doesn't seem like it could work albeit the brilliant midfield behind them. How about playing a 4-3-3 with Nedved and Bale flanking Raul with Beckham slotting into the midfield alongside Scholes and Keane. You would lose the frequency of Beckham's brilliant crossing out wide but you hardly have the forwards who can capitalise on it and Beckham has much more to his game than his crossing anyway. Beckham is a brilliant passer of the ball with the industry to boot with it as well. It would be akin to how Di Maria played for Real last season where he played as the left mid of a midfield trio but also ventured out to the left flank whenever he got the chance. I think Beckham is more than capable of playing in a midfield trio and your team will still have two good wingbacks in Evra and Petrescu who can provide the width. I just feel in this particular set-up you get more out of your players with maybe the exception of Beckham to a minimal extent.
 
Joga Bonito said:
There would just be too much pressure on Hagi to pull the strings and solely provide the ammunition for their phenomenal forwards. If Keane manages to shut him down then I can see their whole team suffering from lack of supply.
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I think Rivaldo there titls this in Aldo's favour. Purt Rivaldo/Ronaldo in a 2vs2 situation, they will definitely score. Even if Keane was on Hagi, Simeone/Mascherano will definitely thread balls to Rivaldo as it will be just them against Scholes in the middle. I don't think Keane should be marking anyone in particular there and that leaves Hagi space to do his thing. A slight edge, but one nevertheless, imo.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I think Rivaldo there titls this in Aldo's favour. Purt Rivaldo/Ronaldo in a 2vs2 situation, they will definitely score. Even if Keane was on Hagi, Simeone/Mascherano will definitely thread balls to Rivaldo as it will be just them against Scholes in the middle. I don't think Keane should be marking anyone in particular there and that leaves Hagi space to do his thing. A slight edge, but one nevertheless, imo.
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I don't think Keane should be man-marking Hagi. I just think with Keane in the opposing team Hagi's influence would be reduced with Mascherano and Simeone hardly able to shoulder the playmaking duties and there is not too much offensive/creative impetus from the full backs either. There is too much riding on Hagi to provide the ammunition and I think he will not perform to his fullest ability without enough support from midfield/defense whilst also being up against Scholes and Keane. Just like you've stated it just leaves the individual brilliances of Ronaldo/Rivaldo to save the day which can be difficult against a defensively organised team without reliable service from the deep as well.
 
Simeone and Mascherano are more than capable of finding the more creative players, Mascherano in the world cup consistently found players with forward passes when given a bit of time, and he's probably the worse of the two on the ball. Ronaldo with Rivaldo and Hagi feeding him will get chances against Gallas and Carvalho, even if you argue that service from deep will be limited, and that's where the game would be won IMO.
 
Yeah it is a difficult job for his defense to contain that even without that 70 yard pass from a CB.

1. Hagi, Rivaldo and Basler are there creative players in the team and they will create chances. Edogen doesn't have a DM sitting in front of the defense and the CB pair is not good enough for an attacking system where they will be exposed time and again, against the likes of Rivaldo and Ronaldo.

2. Ronaldo is not a striker who needs to be fed with hollywood balls throughout the game. There's a reason he's rated that highly and it is simply because he can get the ball anywhere on the pitch and create havoc against the defense. He did so against the likes of Nesta and Maldini, there's no reason he will spare Gallas or Carvalho here. That is the clearest route to goal and I don't see any plan to stop it. That is by far the biggest mismatch on the pitch.

3. Whereas my defense is well equipped to negate his attack specially considering that he would be attacking down the wings and I have two beasts in the middle to cut off anything in the air and not allow any space.

I have massively better CB pair and overall I have the better defense also better equipped to handle him, while I also have the better attack working seamlessly together with a known devastating partnership of Ronaldo and Rivaldo while facing a much inferior central defense which is where both of them will attack. Petrescu, Gallas and Carvalho will struggle in this game, given how all rounded that front two and can easily create or score with ease and in spectacular match winning fashion.

The game is tied, and we need a match winner. That is much more likely to come from Ronaldo or Rivaldo than anyone else!
 
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Keane and Scholes were quite a gung ho partnership and Aldo has Rivaldo and Ronaldo who would love to attack in those areas and in a back and forth match. Defensively Aldo's team looks better set up with Desailly, Stam, Mascherano and Simeone to deal with the great offense of Edogen.

Carvalho and Gallas are worse individually and have a much more difficult task at their hands as well so I see a high scoring match where Ronaldo/Rivaldo looks much more likely to score.
 
I really don't like Nedved there. He is one of EDogen's very best players so you just go play him where he will make the greater impact, Bale is supporting cast and actually played his best football through the middle. Don't get that.

Either way, this is quite simply a case of how I can see Aldo's defence frustrating EDogen all day long, whichever way those two are arranged, he maybe concedes one but will have great difficulty. Beckham wouldn't be particularly effective against that defence, the centre is congested with Aldo having a strong core, which is when you would look for Giggs but find Bale, who is a far cry from Ryan Giggs in his pomp. On the other hand, I can't see Aldo not having joy in that final third with Rivaldo, Hagi, Basler and Ronaldo facing Petrescu, Gallas, Carvalho and Evra.

The Rivaldo-Ronaldo combo alone is worth two goals against that defence (which isn't bad, but not in the same league), and then you have Hagi pulling strings... He'll have to come deep to help with the transition, but will do a goood enough job of that to make his team prevail.

Aldo 2-1 easily, possible 3-1.
 
I feel dirty voting against Edogen's midfield, but his defence is less than top class and I'm unconvinced by Nedved behind Raul rather than in his best position. I still think he'd score, but Aldo's right in saying that, as great as they were, that Utd midfield wasn't set up to be watertight. Aldo will see enough of the ball to punish a decent but unexceptional defence. Saying that, Harte at LB threatened to swing my vote the other way, but Aldo's been slightly fortunate so far not to come up against an opponent that really exploits his vulnerabilities.
 
I need to try something since I am down by 2.

New formation:

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A 4-3-3 with Nedved and Bale attacking from their best positions.

Evra and Petrescu can provide the width.

Beckham more than capable of playing that role.

I am going all in attack to try and win the game.
 
It's a good change. A bit earlier and it would have swung my vote as Bale would eviscerate Harte. As it is we've still had 65-70 minutes or so of Rivaldo and Ronaldo doing the same to Edogen.
 
Sorry, was out the whole day and just managed to put my final thoughts in the morning before leaving. Tough luck, @EDogen , really liked your team.

As Pat said, I was quite fortunate in the win. It all goes back to Annah making a mistake leading to Ronaldo being available and me being the first to pick a reinforcement. I don't think anyone else could have made such an impact both in terms of votes and on the pitch.
 
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