Criteria Draft Round 1 - Edgar Allan Pillow vs BorisDeLeFora

Who would win this match if all players were playing at their respective peaks?


  • Total voters
    34
  • Poll closed .

RoadTrip

petitioned for a just cause
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
29,750
Location
Los Pollos Hermanos...
Team EAP

What formation and strategy is being used?


A 3-5-2 with rampaging fullbacks, a midfield balanced for presence and creativity and super-lethal strike combo operating at the front. The flexibility of the team gives us the ability to play a balanced game with ability to move the ball forward from all over the pitch.

Why the 3-5-2 is a perfect fit for this team?

CENTRAL DEFENCE: A central defender (Andersson) who is flexible to operate as a sweeper, defender or a defensive midfielder as per the game needs, flanked by a left footed defender (Agger) and a right footed defender (Pepe) operating at their favourite sides make up of a perfect back 3.

WING BACKS: Best in world wing backs (Carlos & Maicon) operating in their respective flanks provide a width and a perfect balance between offence and defence.

MIDFIELD: Left Midfielder (Di Maria) and Right Midfielder (Gattuso) are both flexible to operate inside through the middle or outside supporting the flanks. A complete central midfielder in Arteta capable of playing a holding role in defence dictating play or attacking role providing assists to keep the game ticking for the side, completes the midfield.

STRIKERS: Uber-lethal strike duo of Litmanen-Suarez who are both flexible to drift around and create for each other or score screamers themselves, they will be the perfect foil to each other and be the focal point of attacks.

What makes the team tick?

Flexibility. Fluidity. Adaptability. Lethality.

* A extremely hard working midfield in Di Maria - Arteta - Gattuso. No slackers here. They will work their sock off bridging defence and attack.
* Di Maria and Gattuso can operate either through the middle or out wide in the flanks. Carlos/Di Maria is a mouth watering combo abundant in pace and creativity.
* Gattuso and Maicon are equally effective on the right wing. Gattuso can move up inside supporting the attack or drift back to flanks giving Maicon freedom to rampage forward.
* Arteta is a creative and intelligent midfielder who can keep the game ticking from the middle. Having a 3 man defence behind him releives him of a bit of defensive duties letting him do more creative damage from the middle. Capable of playing both attacking and a defensive game, him and Gattuso are the perfect foil to cover for each other.

+ Litmanen - Suarez in attack is absolutely lethal. The goal scoring ability of both is beyoind question.
+ Both players are creative, intelligent and well capable of drifting about pulling defenders out of positions and creating for each other. This coupled with the scoring record makes them nightmare for any opposition defence.

Special Mention: King: - Jari Litmanen.

The man of the goals, the assists, the threats, the brains and the lungs. Anyone slated to step into Bergkamp's shoes would have a hard time living up to expectations, but do it successfully to out shine his predecessor, takes a special kind of player and Litti is that special. With an outstanding 36 goals in 39 appearances (Ajax, 93-94) and 19 goals in 26 European appearances (1993-96) his lethality is beyond question.

Cool in the box, nerves stay home when Jari plays. He’s got a nose for the right position and has all the skills and techniques for scoring. He can head a ball, chip, shoot hard, use curves, whatever… He is king of the assist, works hard for the team and can play on many positions. Litmanen had perfect ball control. Chest, head, thigh, feet – left or right – he could do it all. Wonderful technique but only deployed in service of the team. Also played as a AM, he knew exactly when to pick his moment to join the striker in the box. The Fin is the best no. 10 Ajax ever had. A perfect team player.

Frank Rijkaard: "Dennis Bergkamp was brilliant for Ajax but the best No.10 we ever had was Jari."

Player Profiles:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-criteria-draft-the-drafts.393672/page-71#post-16173702

1062770_Dream_Team.jpg


abHoblhajR.png


Team Boris

Quick overview of my players:

GK - Reina in his prime was arguably one of the best in Europe, good reflexes, good sweeper, decent with crosses, and very good distribution.

Defence - Gary Kelly is a solid enough full back, was named in two PFA team of the years, and apparently is a draft god, so, feck Roberto Carlos. In the centre then I feel I have an excellently balanced partnership in Lucio and Nesta. Lucio was an extremely powerful and dynamic defender who may have been clumsy from time to time, but he is partnered by easily the best central defender in this draft in Nesta, who would keep him in check and anticipate all danger around him. On the left van Bronkhorst is a good full back who will offer an excellent attacking outlet from the left.

Midfield - My central midfield is powerful and solid. Emerson, child of Capello, was a very good holding midfielder and efficient on the ball. Viera was a beast and Lampard is a goal scoring machine. On the left side I have David Ginola, a fantastic two footed, skillful winger, with a great cross, goes both ways, which is especially helpful with van Bronhorst bombing on outside him.

Attack - Villa is playing as a right sided forward, sometimes drifting out to the wing but mainly trying to make runs into the box to get on to crosses from the left. Makaay had an unbelievable goal scoring record in his prime, 198 goals in 349 games for Deportivo and Bayern between 1999 and 2007, and was La Liga top scorer in 2003.

On the bench I have Matt Le Tissier, who can come on and create some magic at any moment.

Against EAP's team I will look to expose what I perceive to be a number of key weaknesses.

1. Agger is very poor in the air, Makaay was good in the air. Thus, down the left in particular, Makaay will drift to the far post on to Agger, with Villa darting to the front and Lampard arriving from deep. With the quality of Ginola and van Bronkhorst's delivery, Makaay would win his fair share of aerial duels, whether it be knock downs or attempts on goal.

2. Ginola vs. Pepe. The nature of his side means Maicon will be playing higher up than normally, thus there will be times when Ginola will get into 1 vs. 1 situations with Pepe, and I think Ginola destroys him here.

3. Power in midfield. I know EAP has Gatusso, but as units I think Emerson, Viera, and Lampard will be able to bully that midfield and dominate the game. Also, as a whole, they are basically all better players.

4. Racism. EAP's team has two racists, a vote for him is a vote for racism, is that really a policy you want to adopt and show to the world here at RedCafe.Net?

Obviously Roberto Carlos is a massive threat down the left, so in order to attempt to combat this Villa is playing from the right, who has a higher work rate than Ginola. Also, Viera is playing as a right sided CM, so will be in a position to get out to cover for Gary Kelly, who, once again, is a draft god.

Suarez, Di Maria and Litmanen are also obvious threats, but Nesta and Lucio both have the recovery pace to catch either, thus they will be able to squeeze up and tighten the spaces in front of them, limiting the amount of ball getting into Suarez's feet around the box.

 
Against EAP's team I will look to expose what I perceive to be a number of key weaknesses.

1. Agger is very poor in the air, Makaay was good in the air. Thus, down the left in particular, Makaay will drift to the far post on to Agger, with Villa darting to the front and Lampard arriving from deep. With the quality of Ginola and van Bronkhorst's delivery, Makaay would win his fair share of aerial duels, whether it be knock downs or attempts on goal.

2. Ginola vs. Pepe. The nature of his side means Maicon will be playing higher up than normally, thus there will be times when Ginola will get into 1 vs. 1 situations with Pepe, and I think Ginola destroys him here.

3. Power in midfield. I know EAP has Gatusso, but as units I think Emerson, Viera, and Lampard will be able to bully that midfield and dominate the game. Also, as a whole, they are basically all better players.

4. Racism. EAP's team has two racists, a vote for him is a vote for racism, is that really a policy you want to adopt and show to the world here at RedCafe.Net?

Obviously Roberto Carlos is a massive threat down the left, so in order to attempt to combat this Villa is playing from the right, who has a higher work rate than Ginola. Also, Viera is playing as a right sided CM, so will be in a position to get out to cover for Gary Kelly, who, once again, is a draft god.

Suarez, Di Maria and Litmanen are also obvious threats, but Nesta and Lucio both have the recovery pace to catch either, thus they will be able to squeeze up and tighten the spaces in front of them, limiting the amount of ball getting into Suarez's feet around the box.

1. You preceive wrong.
2. Stop preceiving.

Now to serious businss...

Against your points 1 & 2:
- Firstly, Agger and Pepe are playing for top teams in the league for quite some time now. And no offence to Makaay, he is no (no matter how preceived) Romario.
- Secondly, I'm playing a 3 man defence, so there will not be any advantage (real or preceived) in a 1vs1 contest. Andersson will be there to sweep any (preceived) goal threats from either side. Also I do not think there is any clear advantage for you.
- Thirdly, I still have strenth in numbers.

Against Point 3:
- There will be no (preceived) domination. I agree that your midfield is solid, but then I have advantage from the flanks. Carlos/Di Maria will overwhelm Gary Kelly and Nesta/Vieira will need to constantly pitch it to shore that up. Lampard is a goal scoring threat, but then I have Growl prowling there. His bulldog gamestyle will put a crimp into any goals that Lampard might preceive.

Against Point 4:
- I've notified Suarez and he is sharpening his teeth for you after winning this game.
 
Your biggest goal threat will be from Ginola/Lampard, imo. And I have Gattuso operating that side. Gattuso + Pepe (with Andersson sweeping) will be more than enough to counter any goal threat from that area.

My advantages:

(+) Carlos / Di Maria will own that flank. Crosses, overlapping runs, cutting in, they will be free to employ their full bag of tricks against Kelly. Villa will not provide any joy in defence there. Vieiera have to be constantly present to shore up the defence there, which would cramp his contributtion elsewhere on the pitch.
(+) With Carlos / Maicon and Di Maria, I do have the capability of a rapid counter. You do not have any pace in the middle to counter for that.
(+) Litti and Suarez are a flexible combo. If Suarez starts drifting left to overload that wing, It will definitely lead to goals. Both are lethal and well capable of scoring given half a chance.
 
Did Villa ever play the right flank? In any case, would it be his strongest position? Seems an odd move.

It's a close one for me tbh, I really don't know.
 
Edgar shamelessly trying to cash in on the Van Gaal mania. Tsk. Tsk.

Seriously, though...I like the team. It makes sense. Almost to a man. I'm not sure about the front two. Something's slightly off there, I think. I'm not thinking quality here, but rather to what extent the players suit their given roles.

Boris' main problem, as I see it, is selling Villa in that role. It was never his best one. He did a job in a wide-ish role for Barca, in a set-up which made that role something else than it usually is. But in this particular set-up? I don't know. There's arguably a lack of invention and artfulness in the middle there too. I rate Ginola very highly and he can create plenty, not least in combinations with Van Bronckhorst (who I also rate highly). So that side is fine. CB pairing is easily one of the best in the draft, so zero issue with that. Edgar's trio is FAR less impressive.
 
Edgar shamelessly trying to cash in on the Van Gaal mania. Tsk. Tsk.

Seriously, though...I like the team. It makes sense. Almost to a man. I'm not sure about the front two. Something's slightly off there, I think. I'm not thinking quality here, but rather to what extent the players suit their given roles.

Boris' main problem, as I see it, is selling Villa in that role. It was never his best one. He did a job in a wide-ish role for Barca, in a set-up which made that role something else than it usually is. But in this particular set-up? I don't know. There's arguably a lack of invention and artfulness in the middle there too. I rate Ginola very highly and he can create plenty, not least in combinations with Van Bronckhorst (who I also rate highly). So that side is fine. CB pairing is easily one of the best in the draft, so zero issue with that. Edgar's trio is FAR less impressive.

:lol: It just lined up like this.

I would like to think that my team is more than the sum of its parts. The lack of big names is countered by having players who can overlap and complement each other.

I think the main thing Boris lacks overall is pace. VanB is a quality fulllback but one not known for his pace and he goes against Maicon here. Ginola is one never to be underestimated, but then I have Gattuso and Pepe covering that with Andersson still available to support. I do not think there is any advantage even with Ginola there.

However I do have a clear advantage on the other wing, despite the presence of Nesta. Be it pace, trickery or intelligence Carlos/Di Maria have it all and they are up against Gary Kelly here (Villa can be safely discounted to support defence) Nesta/Vieira will be hard pressed to counter this and with a bit of support from Arteta, they will definitely find Suarez/Litti and repeatedly, imo. Given Suarez ability to drfit left and overload that wing pulling defenders out of position, there would be more than one goal through there.

Edit: On the front two, I think they complement each other quite well. Both are capable and intelligent to drift and create space for each other. Both are proven goal scorers and have solid records. Litti is quite lethal in that role and with Suarez moving about being anuisance, there are definitely goals from that duo.
 
Villa has played on the right at times, he is out there because he has a better work rate than Ginola. Now, I'm not saying he's Dirk Kuyt, he's just less lazy than Ginola and more likely to stop Agger taking the ball out of defence and playing the ball to Carlos. Also, with a large portion of my attacks going down the left, he would be in a perfect position from that area to make darts into the box or find some space.
 
On the spelling issue, it must be remarked that Boris has his RB down with one "r" too many. And that, of course, may tip the scales here. Because it's close for me.

My main problem with Edgar's team is the lack of quality at the back. The set-up is right but the individual players forming that trio just don't cut the mustard for me - but, then again, there's something to be said for the Aloysius approach. They're better as a trio than any two of them would be as a pairing. His fullbacks/wingbacks are excellent. Carlos is beyond reproach and Maicon was MUCH better in his pomp than what he appeared to be at the World Cup.

All things said and done...I'm sorry, Boris, but the spelling (and Villa in that role) makes the difference. I'm going to have to give this one to Edgar.

@Edgar Allan Pillow I don't disagree as such with your comments on Jari and the cannibal. But to my thinking they're still a bit too...if not similar (because they really aren't), then too prone to get in the other man's way rather than complementing each other. It's not a positive mismatch, certainly not - but I think either player would look better with a sheer finisher (a more direct-on-goal type) as their partner.
 
:lol: It just lined up like this.

I would like to think that my team is more than the sum of its parts. The lack of big names is countered by having players who can overlap and complement each other.

I think the main thing Boris lacks overall is pace. VanB is a quality fulllback but one not known for his pace and he goes against Maicon here. Ginola is one never to be underestimated, but then I have Gattuso and Pepe covering that with Andersson still available to support. I do not think there is any advantage even with Ginola there.

However I do have a clear advantage on the other wing, despite the presence of Nesta. Be it pace, trickery or intelligence Carlos/Di Maria have it all and they are up against Gary Kelly here (Villa can be safely discounted to support defence) Nesta/Vieira will be hard pressed to counter this and with a bit of support from Arteta, they will definitely find Suarez/Litti and repeatedly, imo. Given Suarez ability to drfit left and overload that wing pulling defenders out of position, there would be more than one goal through there.

Edit: On the front two, I think they complement each other quite well. Both are capable and intelligent to drift and create space for each other. Both are proven goal scorers and have solid records. Litti is quite lethal in that role and with Suarez moving about being anuisance, there are definitely goals from that duo.
You are right in that Gattuso, Pepe and Andersson will provide good support for your right back. But the same applies to my side, Viera will come across and potentially be followed by Emerson, and Lampard has the legs and intelligence to at least act as a body in the central space left by Emerson.

Compare this to my attacking, if you have Pepe and Gattuso pushed out to support Maicon, it leaves a space in midfield that Arteta will not always be le to cover or get the better of Lampard in (now, obviously you could say the same at the other end, but Lampard is far more likely to profit in this type of situation than Arteta or Gattuso.

You mention the nuisance and threat of Suarez and Litmanen, this is obvious, however as I hinted at I think the intelligence of Nesta and power of Lucio can negate this better than most, especially as they can squeeze up toward Emerson and deny space.
 
feck it, changing tactics slightly, this Villa thing isn't going to work it seems.

abHpdi4adG.png


This is probably a more balanced formation, and perhaps would increase the influence my midfield would have over the game, as it now would have more options on the ball to switch the play left or right.
 
You need to tag @rpitroda if you need a formation changed so he can update OP.

Personally I don't think the change brings any balance.

1) Villa is not a winger. Putting him there takes away whatever he could do inside the box.

2) van Brockhurst is not known for pace. With Villa in front, I would effectively control the right midfield.

3) Ginola would still be predominantly on his own. No one to feed quick counters for him to take advantage.

Di Maria is no slouch in defensive contribution. Yet he is perfectly placed to exploit space if Vieira or Kelly gets caught upfront. Plenty of pace and intelligence to make it lethal.
 
Villa's scored a lot of goals coming off the left of attack - see Euro 2008 and the 2010 World Cup. He was always particularly dangerous for Valencia in that channel between the right-back and centre-half. Him and Makaay offer a hell of a lot of goal threat.
 
Sure you can say Litmanen and Suarez may arguably be on a different level, but you have no central defender on the same level as Lucio, never mind Nesta.

Again I want to highlight the the weakness of Agger in the air, Makaay can dominate him, even from deep crosses into the box from van Bronkhorst.

The difference in quality between my attack and your defence is greater than the difference in quality between your attack and my defence.
 
Agreed. I would still put him as inside left and not a touchline winger as depicted.

My main point still being his midfield has presence but not that much creativity or pace. They will be a tad static in their build up giving me time and space to organize.

On the other hand if any of his team gets caught up, my counter will be lightning and lethal.
 
I will update the formation soon once home, or if you send me the URL I can update it now on the train.

I think the changed formation is better.
 
I think EAP has the wings, but despite Gattuso, I think you'll have it tough through the middle.

I don't rate Litmanen as much as most here either which doesn't help your case.

Also Boris makes a v good point about Lucio and Nesta.

I need to decide between winning the wings or winning the middle. The funny thing is, both sets of strikers would suit the opposite the rest of their team provides - Makaay would prefer strength on the wing and Suarez would love a strong centre.

Moving Villa to the left could be significant for me though, since he will cut in and be able to get the best out of and from Lampard.

Also Arteta and Agger are so out of place here for me. And Pepe is just urgh. You need a solid intelligent and protective defender next to him, not Agger. That being said Andresson could be key because of that.
 
Sure you can say Litmanen and Suarez may arguably be on a different level, but you have no central defender on the same level as Lucio, never mind Nesta.

Again I want to highlight the the weakness of Agger in the air, Makaay can dominate him, even from deep crosses into the box from van Bronkhorst.

The difference in quality between my attack and your defence is greater than the difference in quality between your attack and my defence.

I think EAP has the wings, but despite Gattuso, I think you'll have it tough through the middle.

I don't rate Litmanen as much as most here either which doesn't help your case.

Also Boris makes a v good point about Lucio and Nesta.

I need to decide between winning the wings or winning the middle. The funny thing is, both sets of strikers would suit the opposite the rest of their team provides - Makaay would prefer strength on the wing and Suarez would love a strong centre.

Moving Villa to the left could be significant for me though, since he will cut in and be able to get the best out of and from Lampard.


Probably. But then I do have strenth in numbers to make up for that. It will never be a 1vs1 that will give you any advantage.

Carlos, Di Maria and a drfifting Suarez with Litti lurking centrally will definitely be too much even for Nesta.

It was never in my plan to attack throug the middle. I have a clead advantage in flanks and Di Maria / Gattuso can operate inside but still complementing the flanks. Without a proper AM, it would be suicidal for my team to taken them through the middle.

Also consider my point on pace, counters and creativity. His team may be solid, but I got the edge on the other areas. I can catch him quicker on the counter and have more pace all through to get the ball transition quickly.
 
Voted for my friend pillock for no reason whatsoever. As you were.
 
Also the left flank is big for me. Di Maria and Carlos will own Kelly. Shame you don't have a striker who would make the best use of that.

Having said that, Vieira on that side should limit Di Maria to an extent and the moment Di Maria drifts wide, you have big problems in CM.
 
Also the left flank is big for me. Di Maria and Carlos will own Kelly. Shame you don't have a striker who would make the best use of that.

Having said that, Vieira on that side should limit Di Maria to an extent and the moment Di Maria drifts wide, you have big problems in CM.

How is that? Irrespective of Di Maria being inside or outside, that flank needs Vieira. Even if I lose the ball there, I still have pace to recover faster than he can counter. Vieira, Emerson and Lampard are not know for pace or counters, imo.
 
Gone for Boris - much better central defenders and midfield IMO

I like EAP's wingbacks, but those centre backs are pretty poor and I could see them getting exposed on the counter.

In midfield Boris clearly has the better players in terms of ability, and he also gets the best out of them. Vieira is more flexible anyway (though this is a lovely set up for him) but Lampard can be troublesome to fit in, yet here the system is perfect IMO. Breaking forward past Arteta I think he'll cause all sorts of problems for that back line.


Going forward if Boris gets through, he needs to upgrade that front three.
 

Counter? From where?

What do you mean? An attack from anywhere would give those centre backs trouble if they're exposed.

Ginola was a lovely dribbler with the ball, a prime Villa running at Pepe would cause him all sorts of problems, Vieira and Lampard tanking forward and playing off Makay would have Agger like a deer in the headlights.
 
I know there's a general 3-5-2 love-in around here but it has its weakness on the flanks, and I think GInola and Villa can exploit that. Of course, you could ask Gattuso to do his familiar job in covering for his wingback but that leaves Arteta facing the runs of Lampard and Viera.

Also, Nesta-Lucio is :drool:
 
I know there's a general 3-5-2 love-in around here but it has its weakness on the flanks, and I think GInola and Villa can exploit that. Of course, you could ask Gattuso to do his familiar job in covering for his wingback but that leaves Arteta facing the runs of Lampard and Viera.

Also, Nesta-Lucio is :drool:

Well it's not all happening at the same time, right. Yes, Gattuso will cover for Maicon with Pepe. Then you also have Andersson sweeping up behind. I do like Nesta/Lucio, but I still think Suarez/Litmanen will keep them busy.
 
Tactics Agger replaced with Cazorla to add bite to the attack. Formation changed to 4-3-2-1.

- Carlos, Di Maria and Cazorla to combine and dominate attacking that flank. Even Nesta would have trouble as all of them are creative and can interact well with each other.
- Gattuso tasked with a more defensive job to assist in controlling Ginola/Lampard.