cricket draft- crappy vs nm

[crappycraperson]

Hello and welcome to Group D round robin match of test cricket draft.

Please keep in mind that The voters are being asked to choose a team that will prevail over a three match series on these respective grounds.

• Eden Gardens, Kolkatta
• Lords, London
• SCG, Sydney

Michael Vaughn - Stats don't do complete justice to him. Was easily the best English batsmen about in his prime (was ranked number 1 in world once, not saying he was the best but an indicator of his form at his peak). Known for playing long innings. Average - 41.44 (45.48 as an opener!), 18 centuries, 18 fifties

Michael Slater - Part of my experienced opening partnership. Can blow hot and cold but has dealt with all kinds, opening the batting for one of two best teams of all time. Average - 42.83, 14 hundreds, 21 fifties

Robin Smith - Extremely solid player with a reputation of playing pace bowlers really well which will be handy up top. Avg of 43.67 with 9 hundreds and 28 fifties

Javed Miandad - A player who is sadly ignored by history whenever names of great batsmen are discussed. A dogged player who was also a match winner. Most definitely the best Pakistani batsmen of all time- likes of Inzy, Yousuf never performed against the caliber of attack he faced. 8832 runs, 52.57 average, 23 hundreds, 43 fifties, 6 double centuries. (His average actually went down during the 90s when he overstayed his welcome)

Mahela Jayawerdene (c) - Superb player, one of the best Lankan ones of all time. Captain of the side as well, his average shoots up when he is the captain. An astute thinker who would be supported well by Vaughn and Gilchrist. 49.56 average, 31 hundreds and 45 fifties, 10k+ runs. Average as captain is 58!

Adam Gilchrist (wk) - Quite comfortably the best wicketkeeper of all time. A true match winner with his batting as well. 47.60 average with 17 hundreds and 26 fifties, 379 catches and 37 stumpings! Match winning/turning innings- countless!

Nathan Astle (plays at Lords and SCG) - Attacking batsmen who can bat really well with the tail. 37.02 average, 11 hundreds and 24 fifties, 51 wickets at 42.01 average.

Geoff Lawson - Handy third pacer. 180 wickets at 30.56 avg, 61.7 SR and 4 fifties! Good foil to Holding and Ntini

Michael Holding - Whispering death! It is between him and Marshall as the best West Indies bowler of all time. 249 wickets at 23.68 average and 50.9 SR. Has 6 fifties to boot!

Abdul Qadir - Take out any best spinners of all time list and he will be a constant on them. Best Pak spinner of all time? Between him and Saqlain. 236 wickets at 32.80 average; 3 fifties to his name as well

Makhaya Ntini - Severely underrated. He is not in the top most tier of fast bowlers but comfortably in the next one. Provided much needed support to likes of Donald, Pollock and even spearheaded the attack at times. 390 wickets at 28.82 avg and 53.4 SR
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Greg Mathews (plays at Eden) - - 61 wickets at 48.22 (bowling average of 29.07 in 3 tests in India) . batting average of 41.08 with 4 hundreds and 12 fifties. Hard working all rounder who will be extremely handy with his off spin as a foil to Qadir in India.

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Batting - My main strength. Not a weak player in my top 7. Tail may look weak on surface but my no.8,9 and 10 ave 13 fifties combined, plus they are guarded by Gilcrist and Astle, two batsmen who know how to play with the tail . Vaughn and Slater are more than adequate to take on any opening attack followed by Robin smith who was known for playing fast bowlers well. After that one of the best middle orders in the draft in Miandad, Jayawerdene, Gilchrist and Astle. Make no mistake, this batting order will rack up runs on any pitch against any attack. It will take a special individual performance from a top top bowler to run through this order.

NM's bowling will be relying on Imran and Garner for most of the wickets. Macgill is not troubling this batting order. Srinath is a an ok third fast bowler option but my batting order has faced many better.

Bowling - I admit upfront that I would be relying on Holding and Qadir to clean up most of the wickets. But Ntini is no mug, you don't pick 390 wickets with a healthy average and good strike rate just like that.. Astle will be my fifth bowlers in two of the grounds.

I think his batting order is pretty good, I would still prefer mine mainly because I reckon my openers are better equipped for tests. And Gilchrist at 6 gives me a slight edge as well. Not to mention my tail is better as well

 

[crappycraperson]

Saeed Anwar (LHB): Top class opener, and was absolutely brilliant to watch. He was a very good stroke player. His career was shorter than it should have been because he took time away from the game due to a family tragedy, and he wasn't the same player after it. Averaged 45.5, scored 4000 runs, made 11 hundreds @ a strike rate of 55.

Alec Stewart (RHB) (WK): Stewart is a solid opener who was especially good against the quicks. It is hard to judge his average – it drops when he keeps, and rises substantially when he opens. I’ll just leave his career stats here. Averaged 39.54, scored 8500 runs, made 15 hundreds @ a strike rate of 48.66

Alvin Kallicharran (LHB): Another little master. Standing at only 5 foot 5He was considered among the best in the world in the 70s, and was still in his prime when dropped due to him taking part in a rebel tour. His West Indies career was cut short when he took part in a rebel tour to South Africa. He continued playing club cricket though – and fared very well against his former teammates (see below article). Averaged 44.43 (in the 70s and 80s!), scored 4400 runs, and made 12 100s (No strike rate available)
Here is an article written about him by his son: http://www.alloutcricket.com/blogs/comment/alvin-kallicharan-west-indies-63

Greg Chappell (RHB) (VC): One of the premier batsmen of the 70s and early 80s. He did not average below 45 against any opponent. He made a century in his first and final Tests and 22 more in between. However, the most outstanding batting of his career left no trace on the record-books, his 621 runs at 69 in five unauthorized World Series Cricket "SuperTests" in the Caribbean in 1979, off a West Indian attack of unprecedented hostility. Averaged 53.86 (in the 70s and 80s!), scored 7100 runs and made 24 100s (No strike rate available). Got 47 wickets with his part-time medium pace.

Inzamam-ul-Haq (RHB): Inzy is one of my personal favorite players. He played from the early 90s thru 2007 – so he faced some very good bowling in the first 10 odd years of his career. He was (IMO) among the top middle order batsmen of the last 20 odd years. I don’t think I need to talk too much about him. I’ll only say that he has been promised free food for life if he doesn’t run any of his teammates out! Averaged 49.60, scored 8800 runs and made 25 100s @ a strike rate of 54.02

Jimmy Adams (LHB): Jimmy will complement the stroke-makers above him in the order. He is naturally defensive, and will be able to anchor the innings while the others above (and below!) him play their shots. He is also a useful part-time spin option. Averaged 41.26, scored 3000 runs, and made 6 100s @ a strike rate of 37.57. Got 27 wickets with his part-time spin.

Imran Khan (RHB) (RMF) (Captain): I’m not going to say much – Probably the best all-rounder after Sobers. He will lead my team by example and inspire them to dominate with bat and ball – just like him. In his last 10 years of international cricket he played 51 Tests, averaging a sensational 50 with the bat and 19 with the ball.Averaged 22.81, and took 362 wickets @ a strike rate of 53
Averaged 37.69, scored 3800 runs and made 6 100s (no strike rate available)

Bruce Yardley (RHB) (OFF-SPIN): He is (along with Mallett) one of the two best off spinners Australia have ever had. He was also an exceptional fielder, and a useful batsman – he averages nearly 20. He will bowl alongside MacGill, and they will form a very good off-spin/leg-spin combo. Averaged 31.63, took 126 wickets @ a strike rate of 70.

Javagal Srinath (RHB) (RF): India’s work-horse of the 90s. Srinath will be a very useful 3rd bowler, and will also be very useful at the Eden Gardens – he averages 26 in India. Throughout his career, his was THE main strike bowler. Being 3rd option will take that pressure off him, and bowling with a GREAT fast bowler at the other end can only help him. IMO, he is a much better bowler than the stats suggest. He had no support, and was often a 1 man pace attack (Venkatesh Prasad doesn’t fecking count!). Averaged 30.49, took 236 wickets @ a strike rate of 64.

Joel Garner (RHB) (RF): The “Big Bird”. One of the great West Indian quicks – there’s not much I should have to say about him – one of the best fast bowlers ever – he can bounce you out, break your leg (or stump!) or get you caught in the slips. Averaged 20.97, took 259 wickets @ a strike rate of 50.8

Stuart MacGill (RHB) (Leg-Spin): Australia’s second best spinner of the past 20 years. He will always be compared unfavorably with Warne, but his record is nothing to sniff at. He has a brilliant strike rate, and will bowl well under pressure – every time he played, his performance was scrutinized and compared to Warne. Averaged 29.02, took 208 wickets @ a strike rate of 54.

Jeremy Coney: 12th man (not used) – Right handed batsmen and medium pacer. I will decide whether to play him at one of the grounds later.

Averaged 37.57, scored 2660 runs and 3 100s. Averaged 36, took 27 wickets with the ball.

Thoughts on the game:


Batting: Out of the four openners on show, I have the best one – Anwar. I’d also argue (could be wrong here) that Stewart faced harder bowling that Vaughan – but that’s up for debate. Personally, I think I have better openers.
Middle Order: Kallicharran > Smith. Crappy will talk about similar averages, but scoring runs in the 70s and early 80s was harder than late 80s and 90s IMO. Chappell and Miandad are very close – Chappell edges it for me. I do NOT rate Jayawardene so will say Inzy is clearly better than him. Adams is of course a lesser batsman than Gilchrist. However, Imran is a much better batsman than Astle or Matthews (Huge mismatch right there!). I’d say my middle order is better.
Bowling:
Imran, Garner and Srinath > Ntini, Holding and Lawson. Imran is the best bowler, followed by one of Holding or Garner. Then there is a huge gap to Ntini, Srinath and Lawson. I comfortably have the better quicks.
My spinners are also pretty darn good – MacGill averages less than Qadir, and so does Yardley. They also took more wickets (combined) than him. How good is Qadir really? If Crappy questioned Kapil, you have to question Qadir. Poor average (for his time). I don’t rate Astle as a bowler, while I will admit that Matthews will be useful in the Eden Gardens.


I reckon I win the bowling easily, and am about equal in the batting stakes. That should equal a win for me. Crappy will struggle to take 20 wickets.

 

[crappycraperson]

A lot of non sense there NM. I will reply after dinner. Love it how you claimed Stewart faced harder bowling than Vaughn then did not even elaborate how.

 

[zing]

My vote's for NM. Class team, all round. Imran, Garner and Srinath as the 3rd bowler, plus MacGill as the spinner.

His openers are good, and he's got at least a couple of solid middle order batsmen.

crappy's bowling, not good enough to really get into NM's batting, IMO. Holding is great, of course, but Ntini needed the conditions to favour him. Like crappy's openers, but Jayawardene in the middle order is a bit of a fair weather bully. Cannot see him making runs against Imran and Garner.

 

[Moby]

My vote's for NM. Class team, all round. Imran, Garner and Srinath as the 3rd bowler, plus MacGill as the spinner.

His openers are good, and he's got at least a couple of solid middle order batsmen.

crappy's bowling, not good enough to really get into NM's batting, IMO. Holding is great, of course, but Ntini needed the conditions to favour him. Like crappy's openers, but Jayawardene in the middle order is a bit of a fair weather bully. Cannot see him making runs against Imran and Garner.

Quite agree with all this.

Imran gives NM a world class bowler and batsman at the same time which is quite a big plus.

 

[zing]

yes.. best pick of the draft.

 

[NM]

A lot of non sense there NM. I will reply after dinner. Love it how you claimed Stewart faced harder bowling than Vaughn then did not even elaborate how.

crappy - if you want to pick on anything, don't pick on that. I did say this : "I’d also argue (could be wrong here) that Stewart faced harder bowling that Vaughan – but that’s up for debate. "

Think its pretty clear that it was an opinion borne out of the top of my head and not fact.

 

[NM]

My vote's for NM. Class team, all round. Imran, Garner and Srinath as the 3rd bowler, plus MacGill as the spinner.

His openers are good, and he's got at least a couple of solid middle order batsmen.

crappy's bowling, not good enough to really get into NM's batting, IMO. Holding is great, of course, but Ntini needed the conditions to favour him. Like crappy's openers, but Jayawardene in the middle order is a bit of a fair weather bully. Cannot see him making runs against Imran and Garner.

Pretty much this. He has 1 great bowler (Holding) and I'd argue Imran is better. Crappy attacked Kapil, and I can use the same argument against Qadir.. Per the stats, he just isn't that good. My spinners have taken more wickets (when their wickets are added) and at a better average.

He simply won't get 20 wickets.

 

[NM]

Pretty much this. He has 1 great bowler (Holding) and I'd argue Imran is better. Crappy attacked Kapil, and I can use the same argument against Qadir.. Per the stats, he just isn't that good. My spinners have taken more wickets (when their wickets are added) and at a better average.

He simply won't get 20 wickets.

Astle is also a non factor as a 5th bowler IMO. My batsmen are too good to be troubled by a medium pacer who took 50 wickets at an average of 40. He simply has too much of a load on Holding, and to a lesser extent Qadir.

 

[crappycraperson]

Qadir's average is not bad for a spinner. Even Kumble had 29+ average.

 

[NM]

Qadir's average is not bad for a spinner. Even Kumble had 29+ average.

Correct, but both my spinners average better. Together they also have more wickets. I also have 5 bowlers. You have 4 + Astle. I don't think he is going to trouble my batsmen at all.

 

[NM]

Bump. Crappy you around?

 

[crappycraperson]

yea

 

[NM]

yea

No comment on the game?

 

[crappycraperson]

Rushing to office!

What I will say is, firstly you don't five front line bowlers in a test. Donaldo's team which everyone agreeded is a good one, has also only 4, I did not see him fending off any accusations of not having a fifth bowler.

Secondly if you were to put bowlers in bracket in this match it will be -

Imran, Holding
Garner
Qadir
Ntini
Srinath
Macgill, yardley,lawson

Essentially you have two class bowlers in Imran and Garner. I have two in Holding and Qadir. After that nothing much to choose.

 

[NM]

Rushing to office!

What I will say is, firstly you don't five front line bowlers in a test. Donaldo's team which everyone agreeded is a good one, has also only 4, I did not see him fending off any accusations of not having a fifth bowler.

Secondly if you were to put bowlers in bracket in this match it will be -

Imran, Holding
Garner
Qadir
Ntini
Srinath
Macgill, yardley,lawson

Essentially you have two class bowlers in Imran and Garner. I have two in Holding and Qadir. After that nothing much to choose.

No, that is completely wrong.

It would be - Imran, Holding Garner
Ntini, Srinath
MacGill, Yardley, Qadir, Lawson.

You can talk up Qadir as much as you want, but the stats show he simply isn't as good as you suggest. Again, if you think Kapil is overrated, Qadir is most definitely overrated. You simply can't take 20 wickets. Donadol also had better batsmen than you.

 

[crappycraperson]

I am hot hyping up anyone. Stats and are not the be of it all. If you think Macgill was better than Qadir, then more power to you.

 

[NM]

I am hot hyping up anyone. Stats and are not the be of it all. If you think Macgill was better than Qadir, then more power to you.

Nope. I'm saying I have two spinners, who together took more wickets at a better average. I reckon they will be more effective as 4th and 5th choices, versus Qadir as a number2 option who NEEDS to perform.

My overall bowling is comfortably better. Also give me credit here - I am trying to discuss instead of sitting quietly when ahead. I'll be offline for the next 7 hours but I'll be on again when I'm up

 

[Donaldo]

You need 4 quality bowlers who complement each other in Test matches. Anything more is a luxury and an advantage only if it doesn't weaken the batting and balance.

 

[crappycraperson]

I

You need 4 quality bowlers who complement each other in Test matches. Anything more is a luxury and an advantage only if it doesn't weaken the batting and balance.

is correct. 5th bowler in many instances would end up being redundant. Most of the time you use your fifth bowler when opposition is pilling on runs.

 

[NM]

You need 4 quality bowlers who complement each other in Test matches. Anything more is a luxury and an advantage only if it doesn't weaken the batting and balance.

I
is correct. 5th bowler in many instances would end up being redundant. Most of the time you use your fifth bowler when opposition is pilling on runs.

In a draft like this, where the opposition has 6-7 top cass batsmen (normal test sides have 2-3 tops), the extra bowler makes all the difference IMO. It also allows you to keep your bowlers fresh. I'm really surprised people think differently.

 

[crappycraperson]

5 point difference is too big to come I guess. Congrats NM

 

[NM]

5 point difference is too big to come I guess. Congrats NM

Good game crappy. Thought I'd win this tbh.

Who would you pick if you were me? I'm thinking one of Holding/Ambrose and Miandad or Gilly.

 

[crappycraperson]

I would take Holding for sure, he has those fifties over AMbrose.

The other one is tough.

 

[NM]

so this is officially over. Good game.

 

[Red-Indian]

Pretty much this. He has 1 great bowler (Holding) and I'd argue Imran is better.

Imran was not...repeat not...a better bowler than Holding. Of course he's the greater cricketer when you consider his batting and his leadership qualities but he was not anywhere near as good a bowler. Holding has fair claim to be in top 5 bowlers of all time. Imran doesn't come close. I'd argue Wasim's a better bowler than him.

 

[Spoony]

Holding was better, I'm sure even Imran would admit that, but he was a great fast bowler. He was amongst the top three bowlers well into his 30s. But during his pomp only Holding was better. In fact he's achieved the highest rating of all bowlers post first world war. I'd love to know how good Barnes actually was though. I'd love to have seen Frank Tyson and all.

 

[Spoony]

Checking out the ODI ratings and all...apparently Garner's rated the best one day bowler of all time, with a rating of 940. Would be interesting to know how he'd have done in the current era though...the one day game is hardly a fair contest these days.

 

[Moby]

It's an interesting comparison. On first thoughts you would say Holding but Imran's got better numbers and from my knowledge he probably had better variety and skill. Holding's strength was pace, and that pace combined with the skill and control he had was deadly. You'd listen him saying that there's no point in having pace just for the records. If you have pace, tell that to the batsman, let him know you can physically damage him with that weapon. Once that fear sets in there will be times when the batsman would think primarily of protecting himself. Of course that was more applicable back in the day with lesser protection than it is now, but Holding used it to perfection. Imran's averages at his prime are insane. From 1982 to 1986, in those 5 years he played 24 matches taking 138 wickets at an average of 14!! Against the likes of West Indies, Australia, England, etc. Of course number don't even begin the story but these are extreme stats over a decent period of time. Given I choice I'd take Holding but hard to see an argument against Imran.

 

[crappycraperson]

Holding had to share his wickets with other top class bowlers, that hurt him. Likes of Dev, Hadlee and Imran picked up a lot of wickets due to be by far the best bowler in their respective teams

 

[Red-Indian]

For me atleast the best pace bowlers I've watched in order are

Marshall
Holding
Lillee
Akram
Garner

It's a tough one though. Perhaps Imran could be ahead of Garner.